[Feedback] Wuk Lamat's English Voice

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

Hate to be that person, but I would need the full clip to get full reference.

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She's talking about marketing. Meaning, losing sales or reputation. Your marketing team should should terrify the c-suite about losing sales and damaging the reputation of your IP and brand if you release something offensive and stupid that could have been avoided.

Don't even need context really to work out what's being discussed but it's a woman using strong language to illustrate why you should look outside your bubble, it's a 'threat' instead of 'good business acumen'.

I can't believe the level of snowflake some folks have turned into over stuff.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

How dare you ask for more context. :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfMsxjWgUbI&t=1495s

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So, the problem with this "strongarming" thing is that it makes zero sense without the line of her saying "asking for consultants, asking for research". To me, someone who works in a corporate environment, this legitimately just sounds like someone trying to sell the idea of why hiring consultants on these topics is a good idea.

Its worded like crap and comes off crazy, but bringing up potential downfalls and possible issues of certain aspects of a company/product is part of the process of R&D. Though "scaring the crap out marketing to get what you want" is a banger line to make everyone assume you are crazy.

But what is being described is just general R&D and a sales pitch to hire consultants.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

She's talking about marketing. Meaning, losing sales or reputation. You should terrify them about losing sales and damaging the reputation of your IP and brand if you release something offensive and stupid that could have been avoided.

Don't even need context really to work out what's being discussed but it's a woman using strong language to illustrate why you should look outside your bubble, it's a 'threat' instead of 'good business acumen'.

I can't believe the level of snowflake some folks have turned into over stuff.

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I agree, but that wording at a conference level engagement is horrid and should have not been in the final draft for presentation. But I fail to believe anything sinister beyond just horrid phrasing.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...Fod2/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

She's talking about marketing. Meaning, losing sales or reputation. You should terrify them about losing sales and damaging the reputation of your IP and brand if you release something offensive and stupid that could have been avoided

Don't even need context really to work out what's being discussed but it's a woman using strong language to illustrate why you should look outside your bubble, it's a 'threat' instead of 'good business acumen'.

I can't believe the level of snowflake some folks have turned into over stuff.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

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"Put this to your higher-ups and If they don't see the value of in what you're asking for consultants and research. Go have a coffee with your marketing team and terrify them of what going to happen if you don't get what you want"

Keyword there is "coffee" which implies that it won't be done in an official formal setting what does imply that she wants people to undermine the team leaders. I would call undermining leadership strongarm tactics.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

"Put this to your higher-ups and If they don't see the value of in what you're asking for consultants and research. Go have a coffee with your marketing team and terrify them of what going to happen if you don't get what you want"

Keyword there is "coffee" which implies that it won't be done in an official formal setting what does imply that she wants people to undermine the team leaders. I would call undermining leadership and strongarm tactics.

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Tell me you have never had a sales or business meeting without telling me you have never had a sales or business meeting.

Wow.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Tell me you have never had a sales or business meeting without telling me you have never had a sales or business meeting.

Wow.

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Yup never worked in business. At best it's a poorly worded statement, at worse it's undermining leadership, still not a great look.


No, she isn't malicious, she is just incompetent. Ok cool. (added on to save on posts.)

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Originally Posted by Mosha

Yup never worked in business. At best it's a poorly worded statement, at worse it's undermining leadership, still not a great look.


No, she isn't malicious, she is just incompetent. Ok cool. (added on to save on posts.)

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Yea, it sounds like complete shit how she words it - but in the setting of what they are doing, this isnt too far out of the norm for how you would try to convince to hire consultants or outside services. It depends upon what you view as ethical practices - would you consider a drug representative bringing in a low cost lunch to a doctors office as they are there to represent a pharmaceutical company?

I think the biggest issue is that the consultants should put forth their services to a company to hire them, not have an internal employee try to convince other parts of your team to look for consultants.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

Yup never worked in business. At best it's a poorly worded statement, at worse it's undermining leadership, still not a great look.


No, she isn't malicious, she is just incompetent. Ok cool. (added on to save on posts.)

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No, it's not. It's saving leadership from making potentially huge mistakes and wrecking their entire brand. Small missteps, sometimes you never recover. Ask Casey Hudson what happens when leadership unilaterally implements their personal vision and completely ignores input from others.

Anyone arguing that her wording was poor but not the merits of the advice is quite transparently showing their real agenda. There is nothing wrong with using strong wording while woman.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

You're really posting a Vivian James comic? You aren't even trying to hide it anymore. ꉂ (´∀｀)

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It's really easier to look at things little more objectively when your starting point is not:
Thing A/Side A = Aligns with views which are comfortable to me, so safe and good.
Thing B/Side B = BAD!!
There is, and always was, as much horrible sludge on both sides of gate.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

Yea, it sounds like complete shit how she words it - but in the setting of what they are doing, this isnt too far out of the norm for how you would try to convince to hire consultants or outside services. It depends upon what you view as ethical practices - would you consider a drug representative bringing in a low cost lunch to a doctors office as they are there to represent a pharmaceutical company?

I think the biggest issue is that the consultants should put forth their services to a company to hire them, not have an internal employee try to convince other parts of your team to look for consultants.

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I took it more as let's go get a coffee so we are away from prying eyes and ears but I could be wrong and I do get the perspective you are coming from.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

No, it's not. It's saving leadership from making potentially huge mistakes and wrecking their entire brand. Small missteps, sometimes you never recover. Ask Casey Hudson what happens when leadership unilaterally implements their personal vision and completely ignores input from others.

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Even though ME3's ending was dogwater I don't think Casey Hudson is a good example for the argument you are trying to make. the ME games are great and I would rather have more games like that than a lot of the stuff we get today.

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

It's really easier to look at things little more objectively when your starting point is not:
Thing A/Side A = Aligns with views which are comfortable to me, so safe and good.
Thing B/Side B = BAD!!
There is, and always was, as much horrible sludge on both sides of gate.

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And what's so good about the Gamegaters from 4chan? (ಠ_ರೃ) ~?

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

And what's so good about the Gamegaters from 4chan? (ಠ_ರೃ) ~?

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4chan has done plenty of good things in its time but people just reduce it to only /b/ and /pol/.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I specified Gamegaters from 4chan, i.e. those who participated in Gamergate. (　`_ゝ´)

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Well, back in the day they had fundraisers and raised money for charity.

(Post limit, haha)

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Originally Posted by Mosha

4chan has done plenty of good things in its time but people just reduce it to only /b/ and /pol/.

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I specified Gamegaters from 4chan, i.e. those who participated in Gamergate. (　`_ゝ´)

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

And what's so good about the Gamegaters from 4chan? (ಠ_ರೃ) ~?

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What's so good about the Gamegaters from literally anywhere?
Am not being "relativist" just to be tricky, I absolutely think people on both sides of the gate took it too far, on an occasion first and then later way too often but that was not the whole conversation before it became just meaningless. I stopped following the og GG happenings when I begun to feel like that, because I felt like my energy and time weren't quite that cheap.
But to dismiss the whole conversation as bullying and trolling was more popular stance on one side. Not to mention the internet staple of willful and voluntary misunderstanding of opposite arguments, that on all sides all the time. That later little thing sure is strong in this thread too, at least it sure seems to me to be impossibility to dislike actor's performance without someone slapping phobe label on you; label which means less and less to me personally, because at this point it is no different than being called "fartface" or something equally empty.

The hell did the thread disliking a Voice Actors First appearance in XIV not being good enough for a few. To the point they don't want to even give them the time to slot into the story.
(Hell, it wasn't even Large Story Content Patch. It was literally the Melted water off a iceberg at night.)

Convert to back and forth, about a Clear Cut and dry topic about SBI, SBIDetected, and the obvious BS spread about folks that never cared for GamIndustry.

Veiled agendas need to gtfo, and this thread should of closed along time ago.
Till then, ima see how many people are willing to throw Quality down the drain, just for pushing agendas and laugh by how they side with those who Harrassed a Minority man from South America.

Edit:
Just catched up..,

While Lilith sure expanded the thread, I see the merit and good intent they had.

respects to those users who like Our PC's attempt to bridge the divide, to listen, to understand ally and foe.
Actually learned something and is open to discussion.

But everyone else.
You need to learn to accept your mistakes GRACEFULLY.

Your intents may be good, but the ego is holding on a path of continuing fruitless/low Poly debates.(Which is being nice, for no reason, to paint it that way on my part)

Just like the Game itself tries to teach you, It doesn't matter the differences.
Just matters who you are within.
Don't continue worthless conversation and move on.

The correct person for their best role.
While Wuk Lamat is still not seeing in their complete form yet. (Look at how some saw Emet at first, or Elidibus until .3 patch) She could still sink in to her role while in English.

But as for some folks misguided, disingenuous, and unwilling to accept their mistakes.
You are siding with the blank slate that the empire was eventually building.

Take things, step by step. That way even the wolves hiding amongst the sheep won't tarnish your "good hearts" just like the Light Warriors Elidibus had summoned.

Crazy seeing how many people prefer the JP voice acting for Wuk over the English version. JP's sounds very childlike to me. Wuk's English voice fit very well IMO. She's a bit awkward and not so self sure but tries to portray a sense of strong confidence to impress these important people from a foreign land. The JP version felt more appropriate to a smaller, more dainty character.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

It's a stupid saying. Just lets people tarnish a whole group by using a few bad actors. (adding this on to save on posts.)

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Uh-huh, I see... so you would agree one person doing something foolish (perhaps causing a Streisand effect of some kind, for example) should not tarnish a group as a whole? Am I getting this correct?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Uh-huh, I see... so you would agree one person doing something foolish (perhaps causing a Streisand effect of some kind, for example) should not tarnish a group as a whole? Am I getting this correct?

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100% but faceless individuals on the internet who are part of a movement is very different to staff who works for your organisation. (expanding) It also depends on how big the org is and what they've done there is a lot of nuance to it. I still think it's a stupid quote because most often it's used by people who want to be reductionist.

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Originally Posted by Greystone

Crazy seeing how many people prefer the JP voice acting for Wuk over the English version. JP's sounds very childlike to me. Wuk's English voice fit very well IMO. She's a bit awkward and not so self sure but tries to portray a sense of strong confidence to impress these important people from a foreign land. The JP version felt more appropriate to a smaller, more dainty character.

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That is true
The reason i like JP more(tho i may be highly biased because i played the mission on JP then re watched the scenes on english) is simply because she just feels more expressive, doesn't go far from your typical anime character energetic character type but it does the work

English on the other hand i feel it like, midway there in terms of expressions to me, but seeing a bit of story in terms of VA career, JP already got some history while Sena has had but a few(and even then pages don't fully show all of em because i think she said she already did another character for Sandland), so i just expect it gets better in DT

But if i have to give an early opinion is that, JP does the job and i expect English to see if it improves in the future, but by the time being, just that

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

You are siding with the blank slate that the empire was eventually building.

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I somewhat disagree. The fake accent really didn't do it for me.

Now could Wuk end up being one of the best voiced characters? ABSOLUTELY. Again not saying she's a bad VA. But listening to the Japanese version it sounded better. It's like two runners in a race- if one has to run half the distance of the other I trust that one to win.

Plus the Seiyuu did Cinder Carla in Armored Core 6 who had INCREDIBLE range. She is easily in my top three voices for that game.

And to be honest after giving the Japanese trailer a try... I really liked Alphinaud, the Viera, and everyone a lot more. It's not just Wuk.

Like they say in the country I moved to- Products should be judged solely on their quality. While that generally applies to country of origin (IE: Chinese and American and Euro cars are all sold without any tariffs or incentives) I would argue it goes the same for any product. I don't get why people are taking offense to people simply not liking a voice. Don't get me wrong there are bad actors- but plenty of people didn't like the 2.0->3.0 voices and there wasn't the same argument. A different argument, yes (basically changing voices part way was weird) but it wasn't the same "You should like it.".

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Originally Posted by Greystone

Crazy seeing how many people prefer the JP voice acting for Wuk over the English version. JP's sounds very childlike to me. Wuk's English voice fit very well IMO. She's a bit awkward and not so self sure but tries to portray a sense of strong confidence to impress these important people from a foreign land. The JP version felt more appropriate to a smaller, more dainty character.

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To me that worked. Especially knowing the actress from other works. She has done rough and tumble characters a couple of times and pulls it off well. If Wuk ends up dying she has done that as well (one of the few death scenes in a game that made me cry). She had a lot of range and didn't have what I perceived as a fake accent which was (also) a big plus.

Well, finally got to the part where she's introduced and then I went to that youtube collection of VAs, they all sound kind of childlike. But then again, this is SE, I'm not expecting Tracey Wiles or Jennifer Hale levels of VA. There's so much terrible VA in the game this one didn't stand out as particularly bad, but it did sound like they were caught between directing her to channel her inner Jaheira and squeak like an anime child.

But, calling out this particular actress when there is so much borderline and outright bad VA in this game I think does still point to a very specific agenda.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Well, finally got to the part where she's introduced and then I went to that youtube collection of VAs, they all sound kind of childlike. But then again, this is SE, I'm not expecting Tracey Wiles or Jennifer Hale levels of VA. There's so much terrible VA in the game this one didn't stand out as particularly bad, but it did sound like they were caught between directing her to channel her inner Jaheira and squeak like an anime child.

But, calling out this particular actress when there is so much borderline and outright bad VA in this game I think does still point to a very specific agenda.

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The difference is that this is our first impression of her. We already have our thoughts on the other ones since we've been with them for so long.
No need to make it about anyone's agenda. I just didn't like her work. But yes as others have also pointed out, the whole patch had some pretty bad voice acting in general.

Full discloser, I didn't think much of the original English voice cast and I didn't think much of the new one either. At first.

Give the voice actor time to better get to grips with the character. It's honestly too early to judge.

I also think it's unfair to compare who is likely an amateur voice actor to someone that's probably had more training. Voice acting seems to be taken a LOT more seriously in JP.

If you throw your toys out of the pram whenever you get a dub over you don't like, don't be surprised when they just decide that we don't need a version in our language at all.

I think the acting was OK but the mixing was off. Even Krile and G'raha sound off.

I thought the english voice actor was annoying as hell, like fingernails on a chalkboard annoying. I seriously was making comparison to the Jar Jar Binks character type of annoying.

On another note... I'm not sure where the DEI came up in this, but I don't approve of DEI either. It's about like screaming... but but but I'm a good biggot not a bad biggot...
....but you still are one aren't you when you do that kind of thing. Discrimination is still discrimination regardless of which "side" it's on.

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Originally Posted by Haru304

Full discloser, I didn't think much of the original English voice cast and I didn't think much of the new one either. At first.

Give the voice actor time to better get to grips with the character. It's honestly too early to judge.

I also think it's unfair to compare who is likely an amateur voice actor to someone that's probably had more training. Voice acting seems to be taken a LOT more seriously in JP.

If you throw your toys out of the pram whenever you get a dub over you don't like, don't be surprised when they just decide that we don't need a version in our language at all.

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I agree, it's crazy overblown. I don't see a 75 page thread about any of the lalafell males that physically couldn't house vocal cords long enough to produce the baritones they have, after all. But add ONE trans woman to the cast and holy crow you'd think the final days were upon us. This specific voice is an issue that absolutely HAS to be addressed.

get outta here with that

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I agree, it's crazy overblown. I don't see a 75 page thread about any of the lalafell males that physically couldn't house vocal cords long enough to produce the baritones they have, after all. But add ONE trans woman to the cast and holy crow you'd think the final days were upon us. This specific voice is an issue that absolutely HAS to be addressed.

get outta here with that

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yeah I'm sure thats why
ahem + bad voice actor

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

yeah I'm sure thats why
ahem + bad voice actor

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See this is what I mean, y'all keep reposting this twitter post from a year ago and it makes me think its nothing to do with the acting, y'all are just mad she had an opinion you disagree with on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

See this is what I mean, y'all keep reposting this twitter post from a year ago and it makes me think its nothing to do with the acting, y'all are just mad she had an opinion you disagree with on the internet.

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You don't disagree with trying getting people fired just because of their gender?
thats a funny one

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

You don't disagree with trying getting people fired just because of their gender?
thats a funny one

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So, did you just link the tweet because other did?

Did you not actually read it?

Saying she thinks they should have hired a Trans person to play the character is not calling for someone to be fired.

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Originally Posted by DrForester

So, did you just link the tweet because other did?

Did you not actually read it?

Saying she thinks they should have hired a Trans person to play the character is not calling for someone to be fired.

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You know what stepping down means don't play dumb now.

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

You know what stepping down means don't play dumb now.

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We do. It seems you do not.

I will explain. Stepping down means to voluntarily cede the position to someone perhaps better equipped to capture the authenticity of the character.

And it's just like, her opinion, man. It's not a personal insult to you specifically.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

We do. It seems you do not.

I will explain. Stepping down means to voluntarily cede the position to someone perhaps better equipped to capture the authenticity of the character.

And it's just like, her opinion, man. It's not a personal insult to you specifically.

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Ok so I choose to utilize your mental gymnastics and ask the VA to step down so someone perhaps better equipped can capture the authenticity of the character.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

And it's just like, her opinion, man. It's not a personal insult to you specifically.

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And people can have an opinion on her opinion and you can have a opinion on that opinion.
That's how discourse works bloody beautiful, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Ok so I choose to utilize your mental gymnastics and ask the VA to step down so someone perhaps better equipped can capture the authenticity of the character.

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Ok? I'm not sure if this is supposed o be some kind of gotcha.

At least you are admitting it has nothing to do with her talent as a VA.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

At least you are admitting it has nothing to do with her talent as a VA.

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"so someone perhaps better equipped can capture the authenticity of the character."

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Originally Posted by Mosha

"so someone perhaps better equipped can capture the authenticity of the character."

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I'm pretty sure we got the message, friend. You don't like that a trans actress with an opinion has the job.

But I'll tell you what, at least Sena had the stones to say outright what she meant and she didn't hide behind euphemisms or bs 'criticisms' of the performance. Nor did she take down that post though I'm sure it's gotten back to her by now that it's getting copy pasta'd all over the forums, even if she didn't see it here herself directly (she does play this game, as I understand).

She owned her opinion and flat out said she doesn't think that trans character should be portrayed by a cis woman. Whether you agree or not, there's some merit to that claim, just as there's merit to white people not putting on black face to portray people of color, straight men not writing lesbian characters, cis men not playing trans women, and cis women not voicing trans men. There's life experiences there that just cannot always be understood by folks outside those spaces, and though the representation is better than nothing, we're still striving to do better. As we should.

All that aside and addressing the 'authenticity' argument directly, we just don't know enough about Wuk Lamat to determine whether a trans actress can portray her authentically or not. And that's because, well, we don't know her story yet. She may very well be trans.

I don't predict SE would be so bold, because having a main character be trans in an expac would likely send a certain demographic into a veritable tailspin the likes of which hasn't been seen since Anders circa 2011, but she *might* be. In which case that authenticity argument flies right out the window, doesn't it? We'll have to wait and see if SE ever clearly states anything specific about this characters gender.

Until then, I'm just not gonna sweat it. There so many big problems in this game, Wuk Lamat's english voice actress ain't one of them.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I'm pretty sure we got the message, friend. You don't like that a trans actress with an opinion has the job.

But I'll tell you what, at least Sena had the stones to say outright what she meant and she didn't hide behind euphemisms or bs 'criticisms' of the performance. Nor did she take down that post though I'm sure it's gotten back to her by now that it's getting copy pasta'd all over the forums, even if she didn't see it here herself directly (she does play this game, as I understand).

She owned her opinion and flat out said she doesn't think that trans character should be portrayed by a cis woman. Whether you agree or not, there's some merit to that claim, just as there's merit to white people not putting on black face to portray people of color, straight men not writing lesbian characters, cis men not playing trans women, and cis women not voicing trans men. There's life experiences there that just cannot always be understood by folks outside those spaces, and though the representation is better than nothing, we're still striving to do better. As we should.

All that aside and addressing the 'authenticity' argument directly, we just don't know enough about Wuk Lamat to determine whether a trans actress can portray her authentically or not. And that's because, well, we don't know her story yet. She may very well be trans.

I don't predict SE would be so bold, because having a main character be trans in an expac would likely send a certain demographic into a veritable tailspin the likes of which hasn't been seen since Anders circa 2011, but she *might* be. In which case that authenticity argument flies right out the window, doesn't it? We'll have to wait and see if SE ever clearly states anything specific about this characters gender.

Until then, I'm just not gonna sweat it. There so many big problems in this game, Wuk Lamat's english voice actress ain't one of them.

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Don't know why you are going off on me about Sena, I gave my thoughts about her like 20 or 30 pages back and that's that. I've commented far more on the stuff regarding SBI and some of the silly things people have said. (changing from a "you to "people" because it isn't just them and is a bit harsh to single them out)

https://mattsko.files.wordpress.com/...transf-gif.gif

"Trans actors should be accepted playing trans and cis roles!"
"Great!"
"Cis actors should not play trans roles!"

And then part of the audience is like "Yes, exactly!!", while the other part is like "Wait, what, isn't that double standard?"
That's the polemic about Bryer's tweet about Ohanian voicing Bridget. She has more of these kind of xeets, which just makes me wonder why is she so negative about Ohanian's casting?
Is that really a good look to be known among other actors and even directors, maybe, about your opinion like that? What about the fans?
At least I find it hard to just ignore attitude like that, even if it is hopelessly minor thing.
I think trans actors should absolutely be accepted to every kind of role they're being called to voice. Voice acting is neat like that, because it absolutely can transcend shallow qualities like that, like sex or age or race.
...Tina Belcher, Edna Mode, Bart Simpson - almost literally every other shounen anime protagonist; Naruto, Luffy, Edward Elric, mot#her ducking Goku.

One last time, I just fail miserably to see any fair reasoning on Bryer's part for her strange and strangely public opinions broadcasting, in situation where lukewarm "gz for role, fellow actor" would look wacktillion times more professional, and respectable.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I'm pretty sure we got the message, friend. You don't like that a trans actress with an opinion has the job.

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Her opinion is no one's main criticism. People can hold two thoughts at once. "Hmm, Wuk Lamat's voice seems a little disappointing." "Hmm, I disagree with this person's opinion which she is posting on her public, work related things holding twitter."
Bryer is new voicetalent to cast of FFXIV, people become curious of her, her other roles - oh look, let's check her social media. And then you find xeet like that, and if you hadn't fallen in love with her to the point you are ready to ignore anything from her, small things like that add to your impression of her, the actor.
And then you know her as voice talent who did disappointing work on new character in your MMO, and who had some less than benign opinions about other actor getting some role.