Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

99% chance itl be left as is

if they change anything itl be specific drop rates but not the process itself

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More RNG.

http://i.imgur.com/MRUVY.gif

Down to 5mils from 40mils in a week just to get damn double melded astroblade. Sweet......almost made me quit. Now i did over 10-20 60k+ hamlets and no drop at all, no seals, not even damn grade matter 5. We did have person in top20 with us. I saw 2 seals droped to PT members, but I'm not going to do hamlets for several mounths just to get those seals. Even afraid thinking about next step in AV and CC to get those mythril or smth things....This RNG s*it is too much for me. I guess i was a "white knight" before, I really defended the game, but this time just it's too much for me. SE I got a Real Life too!

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Because you can't just change something like this overnight, it will take many discussions on how to take on this situations and if they are gonna do away with it what will be the next step.

Mind you nobody in this thread has come up with other solution, they did say they "do not want RNG system" but how do you want it instead? how do you want this new system to be implemented? give a real example.

Do you want to spam AV/CC for 50x instead for a guarantee drop? spam hamlet 50x for guarantee drop?
or do you want not to spam content? you want challenging fight? when most whiner here dont even have garuda kill, you want something based on skill? How is that more feasible than what we have now?

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Did you not even read the OP? Cause, I'm pretty sure she gave a basic description of a better way to handle it...as have several others.

I'm on team 'Epic Quest-line for an Epic Weapon' I believe the relic quest should be a Solo questline that is VERY Difficult and requires you to showcase your individual skills on the job you are attempting to earn the weapon for. I wouldn't mind having to gather items from hamlets/crafting your weapon etc. as much *if* demonstrating your actual skill on the desired job was important too. Right now, I'm spending more time on Botanist while trying to earn a relic than on the job I hope to use the relic on...that is just wrong.

However, in order for SE to have done the 'Epic Quest' line for the relics, they would have had to spend more time and energy on the current game than they wish to do. So we ended up with this RNG crap...and it is crap. I would have preferred they waited longer before introducing them, mostly so they could have done it correctly.

Drop rates:

Hamlets:
Okay so after what's it been 1.5 weeks now?...something like that. My 'progression' group is still in the hamlets. We each now have 1 seal, and I think 5 members (out of 12ish) have 2. We have been going non-stop every evening for at least 3 hours usually closer to 5. We almost always get 60k+ and have a top 20 provisioner.

This being said, now that I've done hamlets more, I think the drop rates are okay provided that once the level 3+ hamlets are released, the drop rates drastically improve the Higher the hamlet level. If however, this is not the case, then the drop rates for 60K+ w/ a top 20 should drop 1 seal 50% of the time (so 1 seal out of every 2 battles). Keep in mind, in order to have a top 20, you (or your team mates) need to farm, craft etc. before you even enter the hamlet.

Weapon Crafting:
I don't think that this step is so horrible...esp since the biggest gripe is the expense. You can work around the expense if you can gather the raw mats. If you can supply enough raw mats, you can give a crafter enough shots to make the weapon for a low cost. Also, at least on my server, last time I checked the base weapons weren't too crazy expensive. So if you can SB enough gear to get the right materia, you can again just buy weapons for attempts. The average person will probably need 10 attempts to get the weapon+2 melds. (Which means I'll need 30 cause I have no luck) But as many of us will be doing hamlets for a LONG time, you can slowly gather/craft the base weapon when you have time...

AV/CC
This is the most horrid part. Partially because you can't pass the seals...so you can't even just help a friend out. Add to that, pretty sure it's a less than 1% drop rate from what people have been reporting back. I am seriously hoping this drop rate can get increased to at least 5%, Ideally 10% by August. (Hoping that SE will raise this drop rate like they've obviously raised the drop rates on Ifrit/Moogle/DH)

The arguement that SE is using a RNG system with ultra-low drop rates to keep us playing until 2.0 is absurd btw. Most people look at this and just give up. As a matter of fact, I know of MORE people who have left to go play other games due to this whole Relic RNG thing than anything else. These same people would have embraced an 'Epic Battle' questline even if they were 2 weeks in and they couldn't even get by the first battle. RNG is only a challenge of willpower...not of skill, or brains. All having a relic weapon will say of us currently is that we are 'lucky' or 'have no life'. You can still be a crappy player.

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Originally Posted by Wevlum

They should hire you as a translator, being able to speak every language is a rare talent.

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eh? I dont know where you are coming from, but where i live we are offered to learn different languages in school. Speaking 3* languages is not really rare. <_<

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Down to 5mils from 40mils in a week just to get damn double melded astroblade.

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Ouch.. lol i didnt try for that many Double-Melds yet, but it is really a Gilsink if the 2nd Meld fails over and over again.

i dont like hamlet its onley for Dol and Doh no thanks

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Originally Posted by Niinoi

i dont like hamlet its onley for Dol and Doh no thanks

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I always went in as DRG...

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Originally Posted by Niinoi

i dont like hamlet its onley for Dol and Doh no thanks

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just shows how ignorant some people are about hamlet



then again, at rank 2, there is the issue of getting the 60k chest being a pain, hopefuly when we get rank 3 we can diversify our clases a bit more with triple scoring instead of double so there is more room to work with on which bonus we go for

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

just shows how ignorant some people are about hamlet

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Really please do explain how to get a 60k chest with a DoW/DoM proper setup that doesn't rely on the militia to do most of the work for you?

Hamlet is crap, this content is more fitting for some gimmicky holiday event (like the emoting @ balloons event) rather than being required for endgame content. It is entirely reliant on DoL/DoH, any non healing DoW/DoM in the group are more or less charity cases who spend most of the fight contributing very little to the point score...

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Really please do explain how to get a 60k chest with a DoW/DoM proper setup that doesn't rely on the militia to do most of the work for you?

Hamlet is crap, this content is more fitting for some gimmicky holiday event (like the emoting @ balloons event) rather than being required for endgame content. It is entirely reliant on DoL/DoH, any non healing DoW/DoM in the group are more or less charity cases who spend most of the fight contributing very little to the point score...

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right now, to get the 60k chest, yes you do have to rely alot upon the doh/dol buffs, but you know what, that doesnt mean everything else is excluded

if you actualy read the rest of my damn post you woulda seen what i was trying to get at beyond that


right now, hamlet doesnt require a spewcific setup, but to get the 60k chest there isnt alot of room for variance, what im getting at is we still have 3 more ranks of hamlet that have yet to be introduced, and im hoping we will be able to see a bit more varience when those hit

when you only need 20k triples instead of 30k doubled, thats alot more room for not relying on stacking to get specific bonus's to make sure you get to 60k, you wont have to kite the boss to keep him alive, there will be alot you dont have to do the same.


also, nothing says you are forced to go for the 60k chest, you can easily go to 40k with a dps instead of a tank with little effort at all.


now as for calling it required for endgame, again, ignorance in its fullest. it is not required for ANYTHING. you dont have to work on your relic, you dont have to get militia items, you dont have to do any of that, you have ifrit, moogle, darkhold, garuda, cc, and av that you can do for endgame instead

nothing is ever "required" of you, its all optional



and in the end, dol and doh deserve content too, so if this is your way of saying you dont want them to ever be able to do anything, you sir, are the one whos in the wrong

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

right now, to get the 60k chest, yes you do have to rely alot upon the doh/dol buffs, but you know what, that doesnt mean everything else is excluded

if you actualy read the rest of my damn post you woulda seen what i was trying to get at beyond that


right now, hamlet doesnt require a spewcific setup, but to get the 60k chest there isnt alot of room for variance, what im getting at is we still have 3 more ranks of hamlet that have yet to be introduced, and im hoping we will be able to see a bit more varience when those hit

when you only need 20k triples instead of 30k doubled, thats alot more room for not relying on stacking to get specific bonus's to make sure you get to 60k, you wont have to kite the boss to keep him alive, there will be alot you dont have to do the same.


also, nothing says you are forced to go for the 60k chest, you can easily go to 40k with a dps instead of a tank with little effort at all.


now as for calling it required for endgame, again, ignorance in its fullest. it is not required for ANYTHING. you dont have to work on your relic, you dont have to get militia items, you dont have to do any of that, you have ifrit, moogle, darkhold, garuda, cc, and av that you can do for endgame instead

nothing is ever "required" of you, its all optional



and in the end, dol and doh deserve content too, so if this is your way of saying you dont want them to ever be able to do anything, you sir, are the one whos in the wrong

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It is required for the endgame content that are the next steps in the Relic quest line, which are tied to endgame DoW/DoM content. Without doing Hamlet you do not have access to the coffers in AV/CC/Strongholds. These are not DoL/DoH content. There are no DoL/DoH relics even, this should be tied to battle content more.

I'm all for having DoL/DoH support endgame, I just don't feel like I should have to level these in order to contribute during content that I need in order to get endgame items I want. Tanking in Hamlet is one of the most mind numbingly dull roles in content ever.

MAYBE it will be better when they raise hamlet, but they haven't and so here we are playing the DoL/DoH gimmick circus. Oooh let me emote for 400 points, YAY FUN!

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Originally Posted by Murugan

It is required for the endgame content that are the next steps in the Relic quest line, which are tied to endgame DoW/DoM content. Without doing Hamlet you do not have access to the coffers in AV/CC/Strongholds. These are not DoL/DoH content. There are no DoL/DoH relics even, this should be tied to battle content more.

I'm all for having DoL/DoH support endgame, I just don't feel like I should have to level these in order to contribute during content that I need in order to get endgame items I want. Tanking in Hamlet is one of the most mind numbingly dull roles in content ever.

MAYBE it will be better when they raise hamlet, but they haven't and so here we are playing the DoL/DoH gimmick circus. Oooh let me emote for 400 points, YAY FUN!

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you dont have to level dol/doh to do hamlet, again as i said, you only have to do it for the best drop rate(if your not a tank or healer)

this is the same as with the cc/av/dh speed runs
not everyone can do them with the classes they have

does that mean that those clases are useless and they shouldnt be allowed to do them, or shouldnt do them at all?

no it does not, people do them anyway because there is still a reward even if it is not the optimal reward


also a bunch of the rewards for hamlet are dol/doh related, but i guess that doesnt count as it being content for them now does it

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

The arguement that SE is using a RNG system with ultra-low drop rates to keep us playing until 2.0 is absurd btw. Most people look at this and just give up. As a matter of fact, I know of MORE people who have left to go play other games due to this whole Relic RNG thing than anything else. These same people would have embraced an 'Epic Battle' questline even if they were 2 weeks in and they couldn't even get by the first battle. RNG is only a challenge of willpower...not of skill, or brains. All having a relic weapon will say of us currently is that we are 'lucky' or 'have no life'. You can still be a crappy player.

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I completely agree with this statement. These are things SE needs to take into mind. Also yes, SE can change things around. They made (well a really crappy way of doing it) token system for Ifrit and Moogle, they can change things around here. RNG is absured for the relic weapons quest and I cannot believe Yoshida would approve of it, its simpy an inhumane process. Also, I am still venting after losing my class weapons in double meld. :)

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

I always went in as DRG...

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Like people say on these forums:

You're an exception. The general community refuses to do anything but "preferred" setups even if something works better, e.g DRG is amazing for Garuda, but people still rather stack Barchers and BLMs, same for Moogle.

It's just sad that the people who play this game say they hope 2.0 will succeed, yet they continue to be ignorant or "ONLY THE BEST!" which is exactly what keeps new players away from MMOs unless they decide: "Hey I can't enjoy the game if I level the classes the I want since no one will invite me or want to go along with me, guess I'll level (required stack class here) and hate playing this game."

Hamlet is pretty fun as MNK and DRG.

PUG will always go with the path of least resistance, that doens't change in any MMO.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

PUG will always go with the path of least resistance, that doens't change in any MMO.

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yeah

when i run with my shell, yes we "try" to go for an optimal setup if the people for it are on
but we have no problems dumbing it down and going for less points if thats what we have on too

and those who dont have the optimal jobs, are working on getting them(they woulda been working on something else anyway in their off time so why not right?)

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

PUG will always go with the path of least resistance, that doens't change in any MMO.

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It sadly even spills into some linkshells, but this is server specific, especially from what my brother says on Durandal that going with a linkshell is pretty much no different than a PUG, not even wiggle room.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

yeah

when i run with my shell, yes we "try" to go for an optimal setup if the people for it are on
but we have no problems dumbing it down and going for less points if thats what we have on too

and those who dont have the optimal jobs, are working on getting them(they woulda been working on something else anyway in their off time so why not right?)

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So essentially:

"We'll go with you if you don't have optimal jobs, but you still better get optimal jobs leveled."

Yes?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It sadly even spills into some linkshells, but this is server specific, especially from what my brother says on Durandal that going with a linkshell is pretty much no different than a PUG, not even wiggle room.

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thats gonna be linkshell specific

some just dont know how to compromise to let everyone get in on the action, its the best or not at all, and i personaly HATE those kinda shells and am glad i am not in one of them

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

thats gonna be linkshell specific

some just dont know how to compromise to let everyone get in on the action, its the best or not at all, and i personaly HATE those kinda shells and am glad i am not in one of them

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I think it mostly due to LS's on that server following BG's example, being 'world first at x content' and all.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I think it mostly due to LS's on that server following BG's example, being 'world first at x content' and all.

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ewwwwww yeah that probly doesnt help either
elitism at its worst

really wanted gae bolg, but... savage might IV up to ~1m each? lol nooooope. i'm out.

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Originally Posted by fusional

really wanted gae bolg, but... savage might IV up to ~1m each? lol nooooope. i'm out.

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make your own...dont gotta buy them

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

make your own...dont gotta buy them

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because it works like that. i'll just step outside and spiritbond some stuff at a 1:1 rate for exactly the type and tier of materia i'm looking for.

good suggestion, i'll get right on that.

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Originally Posted by fusional

because it works like that. i'll just step outside and spiritbond some stuff at a 1:1 rate for exactly the type and tier of materia i'm looking for.

good suggestion, i'll get right on that.

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well, you were complaining about the price...it was a solution :P

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Originally Posted by fusional

because it works like that. i'll just step outside and spiritbond some stuff at a 1:1 rate for exactly the type and tier of materia i'm looking for.

good suggestion, i'll get right on that.

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It isn't hard. Just get some cheap belts and wrists and spiritbind them in an EXP party. I have come across a few IV's already, sell the ones I don't use. Big profits even if it isn't the materia I am seeking.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It isn't hard. Just get some cheap belts and wrists and spiritbind them in an EXP party. I have come across a few IV's already, sell the ones I don't use. Big profits even if it isn't the materia I am seeking.

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i'm not exactly sure what kind of gameplay experience *you* have, but between working in real life, farming AV/CC/garuda, constantly spamming level 2 hamlet for seals (this may sound strange to you but there are quite a lot of people in my LS who need them), and gathering/crafting for provisioner turn-ins, yes, it kind of is hard for me.

so.

good post. thumbs up.

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Originally Posted by fusional

i'm not exactly sure what kind of gameplay experience *you* have, but between working in real life, farming AV/CC/garuda, constantly spamming level 2 hamlet for seals (this may sound strange to you but there are quite a lot of people in my LS who need them), and gathering/crafting for provisioner turn-ins, yes, it kind of is hard for me.

so.

good post. thumbs up.

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gotta pick and choose your battles

with so many people wanting relic, maybe doing av/cc so much now instead of later is something you can hold off on? or let someone else go for you?

either way, you can make choices to give yourself more time, either that, or pony up the money and buy it, its so expensive because PEOPLE ARE LAZY AND DONT WANT TO MAKE THEM THEMSELVES. also, yuo could be wearing gear to SB going into AV/CC easil;y....just saying

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

gotta pick and choose your battles

with so many people wanting relic, maybe doing av/cc so much now instead of later is something you can hold off on? or let someone else go for you?

either way, you can make choices to give yourself more time, either that, or pony up the money and buy it, its so expensive because PEOPLE ARE LAZY AND DONT WANT TO MAKE THEM THEMSELVES. also, yuo could be wearing gear to SB going into AV/CC easil;y....just saying

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i'm enjoying being talked to like i have no idea what's going on, and therefore what few complaints i do level at this game apparently come without merit? lol.

i've spiritbonded hundreds of coral rings and field belts. we don't spiritbond gloves or weapons because those are important slots, and losing those pieces impacts performance noticeably. i scoff at your suggestion because i've gotten useful materia (ie: heaven's fist, savage might, hell's eye, hell's fist) about 10% of the time. and about 20% of the times i do get useful materia, it's savage might. and about 50% of the time i do get savage might, it's tier IV.

i'm pretty sure i've done more than 1000 av/cc runs combined. i'm very productive with my time. i'm pretty sure i do much more with my time in this game than you, and my gear likely speaks to that. so for you to imply i'm lazy? you've got to be f**king kidding me. it's easy? oh okay. i'll just do 1000 more av/cc runs. that should do the trick!

and there is no holding off av/cc for selfish reasons. that's ridiculous. i don't know what kind of LSs you run or belong to, but when i get a ton of great gear from mine- when i'm needed i'm not about to say "nope, sorry, find someone else to run boring dungeons. i wanna do what i wanna do." other people need gear, too, and i'm not about to turn my back on them just because i've got mine.

that said... your posts are starting to hurt my head, and to keep things civil i'm just going to stop responding altogether.

@fusional

don't do av for now, make sure your main members in ls get 9seals and doublemelds weapon first.
later, you will be doing av forever with abysmal drop rate like us.
almost 100 runs, 800individual chests combined. and yes, 1 miser's mythril.

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Originally Posted by fusional

i'm enjoying being talked to like i have no idea what's going on, and therefore what few complaints i do level at this game apparently come without merit? lol.

i've spiritbonded hundreds of coral rings and field belts. we don't spiritbond gloves or weapons because those are important slots, and losing those pieces impacts performance noticeably. i scoff at your suggestion because i've gotten useful materia (ie: heaven's fist, savage might, hell's eye, hell's fist) about 10% of the time. and about 20% of the times i do get useful materia, it's savage might. and about 50% of the time i do get savage might, it's tier IV.

i'm pretty sure i've done more than 1000 av/cc runs combined. i'm very productive with my time. i'm pretty sure i do much more with my time in this game than you, and my gear likely speaks to that. so for you to imply i'm lazy? you've got to be f**king kidding me. it's easy? oh okay. i'll just do 1000 more av/cc runs. that should do the trick!

and there is no holding off av/cc for selfish reasons. that's ridiculous. i don't know what kind of LSs you run or belong to, but when i get a ton of great gear from mine- when i'm needed i'm not about to say "nope, sorry, find someone else to run boring dungeons. i wanna do what i wanna do." other people need gear, too, and i'm not about to turn my back on them just because i've got mine.

that said... your posts are starting to hurt my head, and to keep things civil i'm just going to stop responding altogether.

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i think you totaly misunderstand alot of what im telling you

im not saying ignore your linkshell for your own personal stuff

im saying, if you have others who can go, let them go in your place, are you only a linkshell of 8 people and no one can sit out any time?

is it imposible for you to wear the gear you need to spiritbind into the dungeons and events?

there are a ton of options to use to get around this, and i think you are getting a bit excited over nothing

Good fukin lord Vedis just stop posting here you defend this shit like its your child. Also @ fusional I know what you mean farming that materia is a pain in the ass cuz getting tier IV is random also I have spirit bonded about 30 belts in a past few days and got 0 tier IV of that materia only II > III. I would say spirit bond dated belts during av/cc runs cuz that slot wont gimp you at all.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Good fukin lord Vedis just stop posting here you defend this shit like its your child. Also @ fusional I know what you mean farming that materia is a pain in the ass cuz getting tier IV is random also I have spirit bonded about 30 belts in a past few days and got 0 tier IV of that materia only II > III. I would say spirit bond dated belts during av/cc runs cuz that slot wont gimp you at all.

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lol, im defending something? im giving him advice on how he can better farm the items he wants without buying him, oh wait, maybe you should yell at yourself too for basicaly repeating what i have been telling him, you must be defending too

geeze i swear you people yell bloody murder when you dont like someone posting in your threads cuz they dont agree with everything you say

http://www.reactimg.com/images/ebd97...94ecc960d8.jpg

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Originally Posted by Firon

Good fukin lord Vedis just stop posting here you defend this shit like its your child. Also @ fusional I know what you mean farming that materia is a pain in the ass cuz getting tier IV is random also I have spirit bonded about 30 belts in a past few days and got 0 tier IV of that materia only II > III. I would say spirit bond dated belts during av/cc runs cuz that slot wont gimp you at all.

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Thevedis is the worst fan boy I've seen on this forum to date. She/he will defend anything and everything SE does and ignores everything people say who don't agree with her. She has over 4,800 post, need i say more.

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Originally Posted by morpheus

Thevedis is the worst fan boy I've seen on this forum to date. She/he will defend anything and everything SE does and ignores everything people say who don't agree with her. She has over 4,800 post, need i say more.

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You have 33 posts after a year, that means this post is invalid. See how little sense it makes to bring up post counts? Also, people need to get over the "Fanboy because you defend"..it's not that unorthodox for someone to actually enjoy something without having to be a fanboy, it's very likely there are people out there who can be perfectly fine with something because it's their personal preference. >__>

You could flip it and say those who are trying to get something changed are crybabies.

Same logic, yeah?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

You have 33 posts after a year, that means this post is invalid. See how little sense it makes to bring up post counts? Also, people need to get over the "Fanboy because you defend"..it's not that unorthodox for someone to actually enjoy something without having to be a fanboy, it's very likely there are people out there who can be perfectly fine with something because it's their personal preference. >__>

You could flip it and say those who are trying to get something changed are crybabies.

Same logic, yeah?

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And one more post for you. Congrats on 2,862 post.

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Originally Posted by morpheus

Thevedis is the worst fan boy I've seen on this forum to date. She/he will defend anything and everything SE does and ignores everything people say who don't agree with her. She has over 4,800 post, need i say more.

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Well actually there are times where i dont agree with TheVedis, but i have to disagree here. TheVedis isnt really a "White Knight" or "Fan Boy", but more someone who points out Stuff. No matter if its on SE Side or against SE's decisions.

One of the lesser people which are actually using their Brain.

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And one more post for you. Congrats on 2,862 post.

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Oh.. im surprised now.. didnt you just attack someone's Postcount and now you are doing Nonsense-Posts yourself? Tricky Troll... O_o

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Originally Posted by morpheus

And one more post for you. Congrats on 2,862 post.

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Because post counts are all the matter, eh?

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Originally Posted by morpheus

Thevedis is the worst fan boy I've seen on this forum to date.

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http://thewifehatessports.com/wp-con...s/haterade.gif
Need I say more?

How about we get back on topic instead of talking about random garbage.

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Originally Posted by morpheus

Thevedis is the worst fan boy I've seen on this forum to date. She/he will defend anything and everything SE does and ignores everything people say who don't agree with her. She has over 4,800 post, need i say more.

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She's not defending. She's explaning rationale, and pointing out options. She's not saying: Everything is perfect and this is how it should always be. She's saying:
-- Yes, Hamlet Defense requires a very specific setup right now, but in the future it will be more relaxed (with Level3+ available).
-- Yes, Materia can be expensive to buy, but there is an option to go spiritbond items yourself.
-- Yes, It can be a lot of work to do that end game content, but it's not the only content, there is other things to do as well.


I hope it can be appreciated that there is a difference between defending and explaining and offering alternative aid.