Black Mage

I wonder if foul could refresh/grant 3 stacks of whatever UI/AF stance you're in. That would make using it during AF less annoying and would help transition back into AF rotation after a transposed UI phase. Maybe that's too generous though.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

I think that adding that effect to umbral heart would make our rotation odd since it would make foul not coming up during UI

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I'm going to blow your mind with this one, but you don't have to have a perfect 30 second Foul timer / UI window.

When talking about the relative strength of the casters, people are saying SMN was "overbuffed". I strongly disagree, because with the most recent changes SMN is only now included in the discussion for whether or not it is worth taking in an optimal setup.
This speaks more to the weakness of the entire caster role, and I believe that anyone who considers SMN to be too strong is not looking at the larger picture outside of our role.
BLM damage contribution needs to exceed that of SMN (including it's personal damage and utility from radiant/contagion/devotion) due to SMN having access to raise and incredible mobility.
RDM does also face issues, but it's my personal opinion that if it has access to such powerful progression tools it's total damage contribution needs to be noticeably lower than the other casters.

But I didn't make this thread to talk about RDM tbh, whereas discussion of SMN's strength is useful as it serves as a benchmark which BLM should (at the bare minimum) be reaching.

blm need a fing dps increase, .. again not being able to join progression AND certain farm PFs..

nowonder, blm damage does not merit as a caster in heavy movment end raids (over half of them now), and we have no utility

god damn it, DEVS HAD BETTER NOTICE THIS THREAD AND STARTING POST, EVEN IF THEY PREFER JAPANESE FORUMS AND FIX BLM BEFORE 4.2.. , IT'S NOT EVEN HARD TO FIX BLM

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Originally Posted by Sfia

When talking about the relative strength of the casters, people are saying SMN was "overbuffed". I strongly disagree, because with the most recent changes SMN is only now included in the discussion for whether or not it is worth taking in an optimal setup. This speaks more to the weakness of the entire caster role, and I believe that anyone who considers SMN to be too strong is not looking at the larger picture outside of our role.
BLM damage contribution needs to exceed that of SMN (including it's personal damage and utility from radiant/contagion/devotion) due to SMN having access to raise and incredible mobility.
RDM does also face issues, but it's my personal opinion that if it has access to such powerful progression tools it's total damage contribution needs to be noticeably lower than the other casters.

But I didn't make this thread to talk about RDM tbh, whereas discussion of SMN's strength is useful as it serves as a benchmark which BLM should (at the bare minimum) be reaching.

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Ah yes, let the upheaval of the physical meta begin~!

Seriously though, this needs to happen immediately. Physical synergy is insane and pure magic damage buffs are all but gone now, save for Contagion. All the damage buffs that give physical only should also give magical damage, period. And I think double role (i.e. BRD+MCH) should drastically reduce LB generation as well, or some other penalty.

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Originally Posted by Llugen

And I think double role (i.e. BRD+MCH) should drastically reduce LB generation as well, or some other penalty.

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This is real awkward when every party has 4 dps but there are only 3 types of dps.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyDevo

This is real awkward when every party has 4 dps but there are only 3 types of dps.

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Ya this is almost same than saying two melees or two casters should reduce lb generation as well.

Easy: MNK SAM are "main" melee and DRG NIN are "auxiliary" melee, and it could function differently for randomly generated duty finder parties vs. premades.


Responding to following post to save posts/space: This fix would apply to DPS only, save for double jobs in tanks/healers (so 2 paladins, etc)

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Originally Posted by Llugen

Easy: MNK SAM are "main" melee and DRG NIN are "auxiliary" melee.

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So which healer and which tank are the sole "main" or "auxiliary" in their respective category?

Responding in a separate post because why are you worried about saving space on page 73 of a megathread.

I'm gonna have to heavily disagree with that suggestion. Under your model, you're strangling possible DPS compositions. The possible DPS comps without a repeat DPS drops to 24 from 126

I think it's because you have a max amount of posts/day, that said while the possible dps comps are that much the reality of things are much different in which the double ranged comp is king, you could consider SMN + ranged and triple melee as competitive too if you wish but we are still far away from 126

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Originally Posted by JohnnyDevo

Responding in a separate post because why are you worried about saving space on page 73 of a megathread.

I'm gonna have to heavily disagree with that suggestion. Under your model, you're strangling possible DPS compositions. The possible DPS comps without a repeat DPS drops to 24 from 126

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These are numbers in a vacuum. In practice there are not that many viable comps for serious content because you need a Refresh and stuff like that.
The raw number of comps doesn't matter anyway. I'd rather have 5 roughly equally strong comps that feature every dps job than having 50 and 2 are much better than the rest and only include half the jobs (which is pretty much our current situation).

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

because you need a Refresh and stuff like that.

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Speaking of which don't we think that they should rework Mana shift into something comparable to refresh in some way?

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Speaking of which don't we think that they should rework Mana shift into something comparable to refresh in some way?

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Mana Shift would be much more interesting has a long cd (150 or 180s long) that could give someone like 60% or 90% of their mp or something.
This would give a niche compared to Refresh- Refresh would be something you use to naturally combat the exhaustion of resources over the course of a long fight (for the whole party, but primarily healers) and Mana Shift would be a key cd to recover from death (healer died without Lucid Dreaming or a ton of deaths and he ran outta mana? Give him the mana back). Don't think there's any point in Mana Shift costing mp for the user either (Refresh is free).
Also synergises well with dps raises (they can raise and recover the resources if needed).

BLM has no raise, so it's less of a boon for them, but still nice. It would also mean you don't need to wait for a mana tick to use it, which is helpful on its own.

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Originally Posted by Sfia

When talking about the relative strength of the casters, people are saying SMN was "overbuffed". I strongly disagree, because with the most recent changes SMN is only now included in the discussion for whether or not it is worth taking in an optimal setup.
This speaks more to the weakness of the entire caster role, and I believe that anyone who considers SMN to be too strong is not looking at the larger picture outside of our role.
BLM damage contribution needs to exceed that of SMN (including it's personal damage and utility from radiant/contagion/devotion) due to SMN having access to raise and incredible mobility.
RDM does also face issues, but it's my personal opinion that if it has access to such powerful progression tools it's total damage contribution needs to be noticeably lower than the other casters.

But I didn't make this thread to talk about RDM tbh, whereas discussion of SMN's strength is useful as it serves as a benchmark which BLM should (at the bare minimum) be reaching.

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As a SMN, I have to agree with this. BLM should be the SAM of casters, pure powerhouse DPS with no utility. RDM needs it's dps increase slightly, and SMN is fine where it's at. Raise and Verraise are bigger issues, for now anyway, since new raid content just came out but it'll diminish with time. I would be completely happy though if SE removed raise from casters all together and just gave it to Ranged DPS since they are suppose to be the support job.

i manage to join a fresh ult baha practice this past weekend as blm and do find one of a previous poster mention to reduce aerial manipulation to 15s or 20s correct/or is right. sure, as a blm baiting liq hell is a nono, hell even i see rdm might have it rought compare to brd/mch/smn but anyway as blm doing any other mechanics during twintinia, with that lower cd for aerial mani, it will give the blm a qol change to be able to stack for fireball easier.
during the practice i was basically using aerial mani for the first twister>fireball stack then triplecast sprint for the 2nd as for the first portion of twin. the 2nd portion of phase of twin wasnt that hard, just boil down to saving triple for generate/twister (2nd generate). i didnt get to see the 3rd phase as ddos lag and every1 is fresh learning couldnt keep up with mechanics to survive til the last portion/phase of twin.

just asking those who have done ult baha as blm, what they think of the reduced aerial mani for that fight?

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Originally Posted by Komaru_Tatoro

i manage to join a fresh ult baha practice this past weekend as blm and do find one of a previous poster mention to reduce aerial manipulation to 15s or 20s correct/or is right. sure, as a blm baiting liq hell is a nono, hell even i see rdm might have it rought compare to brd/mch/smn but anyway as blm doing any other mechanics during twintinia, with that lower cd for aerial mani, it will give the blm a qol change to be able to stack for fireball easier.
during the practice i was basically using aerial mani for the first twister>fireball stack then triplecast sprint for the 2nd as for the first portion of twin. the 2nd portion of phase of twin wasnt that hard, just boil down to saving triple for generate/twister (2nd generate). i didnt get to see the 3rd phase as ddos lag and every1 is fresh learning couldnt keep up with mechanics to survive til the last portion/phase of twin.

just asking those who have done ult baha as blm, what they think of the reduced aerial mani for that fight?

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I use Triplecast on the first twister > fireball because it lines up naturally with your opener anyways. And I use Swiftcast and Between the Lines for the second. For example: (B3 > Eno > T3 > B4 > F3 > Triple > F4 > Pot > F4 > Sharp + Manaward > F4+Stack for Fireball+Ley Lines > F1 > F4x3 > F3P + Convert + Spread > F4 > F4 > Swift B3 + BtL/Stack for Fireball > Foul > T3 > B4), and you can have that Swiftcast in a slightly better place if you get a proc.

I use Sharpcast to get an instant for all Generate > Twister sets, you only need a single instant for those. And then I use Triplecast on the first Double Generate > Fireball, and Swiftcast on the second. Just in case I get the targeted Liquid Hells.

Aetherial Manipulation isn't actually needed on Twin or Nael at all really. Maybe in Nael for the last fire in if it was Raven's Dive > Chariot. I think I've been doing that sometimes.

For the first potential Chariot > Holy Puddle, I use Sharpcast, Swiftcast, and Between the Lines. For the second potential Chariot > Holy Puddle I have Triplecast back since I precast it some time in the middle of Heavensfall so that it's back up at that time, and so I don't have to hardcast B3 to get my astral/umbral 3 back. And Sharpcast + Swiftcast should come back up for Raven's Dive > Chariot. So most of pre-divebombs is covered by your CDs pretty well, the only issue is when you have multiple Holy Puddles to dodge, and the slidecast timing isn't quite right for it, you can lose uptime there. I really should map out post divebombs better, I kind of just wing it right now.

Trios phase is just use Triplecast/Swiftcast to get back your astral/umbral 3 easily since all mechanics are done untargetable anyways. We haven't had time to raid so I haven't really even seen trios phase much less past it. Twin+Nael is probably pretty similar to Twin's double generate rotation. And in Golden Bahamut you would probably be saving instants for Exaflare, I don't think anyone is brave enough to Aetherial Manipulation during Exaflare.

So no, I disagree. Aetherial Manipulation really doesn't do much in that fight, except for maybe stacking for Nael fire ins.

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Originally Posted by BlackcatChen

snip.

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ic, yea i thought about delaying my LL from the opener to use as another option for movement to stack but didnt get to try.

but yea, so far i dont see blm having really that much hardship outside of actually finding pug pf willing to accept blm for practice in ult baha.

Friggen people up in here keep saying "BLM should be the SAM of casters" when really what they mean is that SAM should be the mfing Black Mage of the non-magic jobs /gg

But seriously though, looking at mechanics management alone, that is MORE than enough reason that BLM should be the highest single damage class in the game. This includes AOE damage which it is currently outweighted by SMN by quite a bit as well. Here, there should be a potency increase but also Freeze giving Umbral Hearts and damage increase for Flare that uses all three hearts.

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Originally Posted by Llugen

But seriously though, looking at mechanics management alone, that is MORE than enough reason that BLM should be the highest single damage class in the game. This includes AOE damage which it is currently outweighted by SMN by quite a bit as well. Here, there should be a potency increase but also Freeze giving Umbral Hearts and damage increase for Flare that uses all three hearts.

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I still think the damage dropoff is dumb for Flare. I could understand that nerf for Holy, but Flare definitely didn't need that kind of nerf back in HW.

Other than flat potency increase, I don't really know how else BLM could get more AoE damage. I really (really really) like the freeze suggestion that was made and that I tweaked before ("sub-zero"proc at zero MP i.e. after Flare that lets you cast freeze for 0 MP and gives you full stack of Umbral Ice, at level 68 also grants three Umbral Hearts), as that would tighten up the rotation a great deal and remove the need for a slowcast Fire III every cycle. Between that, stacking Thunder dots, and increased damage for Umbral Heart consuming spells, I don't see how else BLM damage could increase outside of just flat potency gains.

The "falloff" should really be reduced to be less harsh for both Flare and Foul.

Speaking of foul, don't you think that SE could say that Foul already works in the way you proposed? I mean after the 4th target the dmg gets halved so in a way it does double potency dmg on the main target already


edit: also why not making Freeze works like B3 for the stacks but with a twist: it does 50 potency on the main target and 100 on the targets around (Potency Placheholder)

Do we know if there will be any class changes in the upcoming patch??

Doubtful, they've said nothing. One can wish they would do a hotfix, but I'd be pretty surprised.

Honestly that's the worst thing about SE, everything's so hush-hush. Blizzard is way better at communicating with their playerbase about changes and updates to jobs and balance. Also, WTB> test server.

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Originally Posted by Mixae

Do we know if there will be any class changes in the upcoming patch??

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Pretty sure that they're raising smn and rdm potency by 25%, and having a full party of all physical dps increases total group potency by another 40% ontop of all their other buffs. Blm is gaining the ability to level squadron members faster, as they're the only people still willing to run with blm.

Of course that's a joke, but it really doesn't sound that unrealistic given the past experience in this game.

Well I'm praying to the Twelve for some BLM stuff

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Originally Posted by Mixae

Do we know if there will be any class changes in the upcoming patch??

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They didn't hint at anything but possible (more) MCH buffs. On top of that Yoshida said they are happy with job balancement right now. Which is quite sad.

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Originally Posted by Llugen

Friggen people up in here keep saying "BLM should be the SAM of casters" when really what they mean is that SAM should be the mfing Black Mage of the non-magic jobs /gg

But seriously though, looking at mechanics management alone, that is MORE than enough reason that BLM should be the highest single damage class in the game. This includes AOE damage which it is currently outweighted by SMN by quite a bit as well. Here, there should be a potency increase but also Freeze giving Umbral Hearts and damage increase for Flare that uses all three hearts.

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ikr, in most of the ffxiv cinematic, its always blm that are the nukers. you don't see samurai in there as fighting the wall https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1586/Kappa.png

Nothing has been data mined so it would appear no.

So no Blm changes yet again. And Rdm heals have been INcreased? Lol SE really wants them to become heal and rez-mage.

Edit: Nvm, just realised it's only PVP actions.

but they did change the ui for color blind players..., that was noted only a few weeks back and the devs implemented it already

a pitty they don't realize the NEED to fix/change blm (dps) in general..

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Originally Posted by Llugen

Blizzard is way better at communicating with their playerbase about changes and updates to jobs and balance. Also, WTB> test server.

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No offense but as I keep saying they are been many cases where they kept silent to many things, also test servers didn't stop mercy rework to come out OP even with ppl complaining on the test forum

edit: permit me also to quote my all time favorite from tbc era : " Our jaws are dropping at the amount of damage that mages can dish out"

I really am not surprised anymore, if at all they are listening to the blm community it may still take time..
So those saying blm get love because Yoshi mains it can shush up already

Well to be fair, they didn't address anything balance related this patch. I was annoyed too at first, but then I noticed it was only pvp actions that got changed. Was a pure pvp patch.

*Read patchnotes- nothing on Black Mage*
*Curses in Mhachi*
*Hexes balance team*
Let's see how you sleep with umbral-frosted feet and your ass on astral fire now!
Kukuku!
(Help me, I'm losing it each patch. So tired of Bard)

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

Kukuku!

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I prefer the monokuma...

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

*Read patchnotes- nothing on Black Mage*
*Curses in Mhachi*
*Hexes balance team*
Let's see how you sleep with umbral-frosted feet and your ass on astral fire now!
Kukuku!
(Help me, I'm losing it each patch. So tired of Bard)

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Yo frosty feet is a torment I only wish on my most hated enemies.

...continue

TBH I don't get why ppl were expecting anything from the patch, SE recently has always preannounced when they'll do job changes in either a LL or an interwiew and the last time they said all was according to their liking

I don't expect anything from SE anymore, experience has taught me not to, but I still always read through patch notes on the lookout for adjustments to classes.

Better if you read interwiews, all recent class changes were all adverstised there in advance afaik

edit: or in LL