One to Fifty, One Zone - Long OP

Let me just ease your pain with a simulated Dev. response:

"[DEV] We are looking into it."

Now we can all rest easy XD

but seriously..expecting more then that is like asking to win the lottery.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

Let me just ease your pain with a simulated Dev. response:

"[DEV] We are looking into it."

Now we can all rest easy XD

but seriously..expecting more then that is like asking to win the lottery.

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But we don't even get that is our point.

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Originally Posted by AtryxEtair

But we don't even get that is our point.

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I know, ive even made it a point to show that other threads today have gotten some form of dev reply...yet the 73 page topic is ignored. At this point im not even expecting an answer.

Lets make it to 1k posts and 100 pages...new crown-less goal XD

I'm in support of that journey.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

I know, ive even made it a point to show that other threads today have gotten some form of dev reply...yet the 73 page topic is ignored. At this point im not even expecting an answer.

Lets make it to 1k posts and 100 pages...new crown-less goal XD

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That's the spirit!! Lets surpass the missing genders post/like/view count

If this thread is not being ignored, then it's possible that a response is on the way, perhaps longer than a short paragraph. Either way, it's impossible that we've been unnoticed. Not last week, and especially not now.

I hope visitors can excuse another FF11 reference. Qufim was a successful zone because of many reasons, I feel.

I believe it had a good introduction. It was a long, long journey to Jeuno, and discovering that dark cave in the back of the city was an experience in of itself. When we entered the cave, Jeuno's music disappeared and all we could hear was wind flowing through the tunnel and the drips of water from the ceiling.

After reaching the end of the long, ominous cave, we found ourselves standing in a rocky, snowy wasteland. Wind howling. Thunder and flashes of light in the sky. No music, ominous silence, except for our own footsteps and the sounds of gigas heavy feet. (I believe this was the earliest snow map?)

Strange structures appeared in the distance, sprawling across the map. A huge tower faded into view, looking as though it were made of bone. By the time we reached this tower, we realized it wasn't a decoration. It had an entrance. Even after traveling this far, we still had not reached the end.

Questions erupted. What is this place? What is this tower? Why is everyone so afraid of the night? Am I safe here?

The atmosphere was presented well. I felt cold there. I felt small. I felt so far from Windurst.

Even when we reached a zone, we were still progressing within that zone. Right now, I feel Final Fantasy 14's zones are missing this.

When I'm running through the Black Shroud, I always feel like I'm on my way. I always feel like I'm trying to reach something, trying to find the heart and soul of the zone, but I never quite get there. A path that never takes me somewhere. As if we could never leave that tunnel that opens into Qufim Isle.

Thanks again for the support, everyone. I hope we're offered some acknowledgement.

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Originally Posted by Siobu

Strange structures appeared in the distance, sprawling across the map. A huge tower faded into view, looking as though it were made of bone. By the time we reached this tower, we realized it wasn't a decoration. It had an entrance. Even after traveling this far, we still had not reached the end.

Questions erupted. What is this place? What is this tower? Why is everyone so afraid of the night? Am I safe here?

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OMG. I forgot about nights in Qufim!! My first time arriving there I see a whole bunch of players huddled around the exit of the cave.

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"Why are we all standing here?"

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"It's night time. The undead are out."

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"So everytime nightfalls we have to all comback here?"

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"If nightfalls and your out there, it's too late. You have to stay at your camp until morning."

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"Really??"

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"Yeah. It's pretty intense out here."

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Qufim was the first leveling zone in FFXI that you visited that was 100% enemy territory. There was no nearby town, no outpost, no chocobo rental. There was cave full of Evil Weapons behind you, a tower full of Giants and Goblins in front of you, and a whole lot of death in between.

Yeah ... you weren't in Kansas anymore.

Just double checked the letter from the producer to see how many "Likes" it had in hopes that we had it outnumbered. Sadly, no. WTH folks? lol

Hearing of Qufim really makes me want to play ffxi again.

Not hearing anything yet makes me want to bump this topic again.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

True. But to be fair, we did fight the same monsters at different levels in FFXI.

Taking my rose-colored nostalgia glasses off for a moment, FFXI was far from perfect in offering a balance (notice I didn't say variety) of creatures to effectively level on. I spent most of my FFXI career killing mandragoras, crabs, goblins, and colibri. Not because there wasn't a variety of different monsters, but because these particular monsters were the least lethal and rewarded you with the same experience as the most lethal monsters of the same level. That's an imbalance. So much so that it negates the purpose of having a variety in the first place, no?

The Development Team should be careful of this as they conduct their overhaul. Not only should we go to new places, see new sights, and hear new sounds ... we should also have to fight new things.

And as another poster said, those new things should make sense for the area.

• Goats don't live in the desert (too little to graze on).
• Goobues don't live on the beach (saltwater doesn't like trees).
• Giraffe-Camel hybrids could live in a desert.
• Giant Mutant Clams could live on the beach.

We not only need variety, we also need things to balance ... and to make sense. :)

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Yeah, I didn't mention FFXI. I don't like how FFXI worked in that regard either. Sick of crabs, anyone? I think there should be a sense of running to that high level area, seeing those drakes and thinking 'oh man! I can't wait til I'm a high enough level to fight those!' but at the moment we just see random mobs piled all over the place, with the exception of a few. Not much feels special or exciting.

And that other poster was me as well! haha. I would love to see some kind of giraffe-camel mob, heck, they could even start by re-skinning the goats. Hugely fluffy animals do not live in the desert :( I'm happy to see someone thinking the exact same as me because this is one of my major gripes with XIV, and it's such a simple oversight.

another morning, another few pages with no dev response.

Why do you need a Dev response to tell you SE will never change the zones.

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Originally Posted by Jobeto-Rin

Hearing of Qufim really makes me want to play ffxi again.

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Honestly, it ain't that great. Lots of people have rose-tinted glasses here and like to make up crazy and long-winded stories about how AMAZING it was, but mostly it was just poor design and frustration back in the day. I'm sure people here would write about the sun hitting the GLORIOUS DUNES OF VALKURM and how BEAUTIFUL it was, and how MAGNIFICENT the fish were that 1-shotted people on a regular basis.

I have fond memories, don't get me wrong. But as far as zones go, Qufim was pretty balls.

Honestly, it ain't that great. Lots of people have rose-tinted glasses here and like to make up crazy and long-winded stories about how AMAZING it was, but mostly it was just poor design and frustration back in the day. I'm sure people here would write about the sun hitting the GLORIOUS DUNES OF VALKURM and how BEAUTIFUL it was, and how MAGNIFICENT the fish were that 1-shotted people on a regular basis.

I have fond memories, don't get me wrong. But as far as zones go, Qufim was pretty balls.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

Why do you need a Dev response to tell you SE will never change the zones.

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Not even witty anymore, you're pretty boring now Gift.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Honestly, it ain't that great. Lots of people have rose-tinted glasses here and like to make up crazy and long-winded stories about how AMAZING it was, but mostly it was just poor design and frustration back in the day. I'm sure people here would write about the sun hitting the GLORIOUS DUNES OF VALKURM and how BEAUTIFUL it was, and how MAGNIFICENT the fish were that 1-shotted people on a regular basis.

I have fond memories, don't get me wrong. But as far as zones go, Qufim was pretty balls.

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It's definitely a case of blind nostalgia. It's easy to look back in retrospect and say FFXI was so grand and amazing. And sure the game retained a lot of players, but for as many people that liked being funnelled into grinding places, one after the other ad nauseum, there was probably as many or more who disliked the approach entirely. After all, a sense of adventure is not created by the game telling you where to go.

FFXIV has many a fault, and I am prone to pointing them out, but the last thing the game needs is another Dunes (I mean, we already have a DunesFOLK). Nor does it need another quifim.

The reason I say this is because grinding is boring!

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Not even witty anymore, you're pretty boring now Gift.

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You would know if I was trying to be witty.

I was merely curious as to why these "revolutionaries" need a Dev to validate the implausibility of their fanciful notions that SE will somehow redesign the entire game around a linear-tunnel approach just because some people on the forum cried foul over the soon-to-be-remedied lack of zones.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Honestly, it ain't that great. Lots of people have rose-tinted glasses here and like to make up crazy and long-winded stories about how AMAZING it was, but mostly it was just poor design and frustration back in the day. I'm sure people here would write about the sun hitting the GLORIOUS DUNES OF VALKURM and how BEAUTIFUL it was, and how MAGNIFICENT the fish were that 1-shotted people on a regular basis.

I have fond memories, don't get me wrong. But as far as zones go, Qufim was pretty balls.

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How another person remembers it doesn't validate it as being enjoyable to me.
Hearing of it, gives me nostalgic feelings from leveling there.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

I was merely curious as to why these "revolutionaries" need a Dev to validate the implausibility of their fanciful notions that SE will somehow redesign the entire game around a linear-tunnel approach just because some people on the forum cried foul over the soon-to-be-remedied lack of zones.

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Yeesh, try and say that quickly!

But yeah, whilst it might be quite pointless (If people really are expecting area re-designs, they're being totally unrealistic), it would be nice to see some plans (as I'm sure they have) of how to deal with it going forward.

Honestly, what I expect to happen is that future zones added will be more interesting, and the current zones might be adjusted in level to funnel people up through them quickly, rather than have everyone use the same area permenantly.

There are some huge open spaces not being used that could be in the future, maybe for things like hamlet defense or even (/shieldsup) player-company buildings? They could easily add towns/HNMs/danger to the areas further in.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

IFFXIV has many a fault, and I am prone to pointing them out, but the last thing the game needs is another Dunes (I mean, we already have a DunesFOLK). Nor does it need another quifim.

The reason I say this is because grinding is boring!

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True. One of the main issues with FFXI was the grind-factor involved, no doubt. We're in agreement on that. But that was a flaw of the entire game, not a particular zone.

What were talking about is the visual design of zones themselves, the placement of the monsters in that zone, and what those monsters are ... not how many monsters we need to grind for us to move on to the next zone. That is a related subject, but that's not what we are talking about in this thread ... and not what we're talking about when we recount the sense of newness, inspiration, and fear when we arrived in a new area in FFXI.

Perfect example ... The Boyahda Tree. Saying that it's a giant tree that monsters live in that you grind simply doesn't do the amazing design of that area justice. It's a tree that's so big it has rivers, waterfalls and other trees growing inside it! And those waterfalls are not just eye-candy. There are no invisible walls protecting you from sliding down one and ending up someplace you have no business being.

That's a well-designed area. It's fun to play in, not boring to look at, and it's uncompromisingly lethal if you go looking for trouble. That's what we would like to see more of in FFXIV regions.

^ thats what FFXI didnt get right...well nor has any MMO at this point, balancing quest play and grinding well enough so that each is good enough to do. Im not a fan of just doing one or the other, but so far this game has made it a point to say "do leve's and behest" because they are FAR superior to normal grind partys. The fact that the leves are mostly all the same dont help much either.

And th poster above is right, you dont hate the area because of the design (they are quite well set up and look solid IMO) but you hate the stigma they have created from a "i have to go grind party there".

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Originally Posted by Sorel

True. One of the main issues with FFXI was the grind-factor involved, no doubt. We're in agreement on that. But that was a flaw of the entire game, not a particular zone.

What were talking about is the visual design of zones themselves, the placement of the monsters in that zone, and what those monsters are ... not how many monsters we need to grind for us to move on to the next zone. That is a related subject, but that's not what we are talking about in this thread ... and not what we're talking about when we recount the sense of newness, inspiration, and fear when we arrived in a new area in FFXI.

Perfect example ... The Boyahda Tree. Saying that it's a giant tree that monsters live in that you grind simply doesn't do the amazing design of that area justice. It's a tree that's so big it has rivers, waterfalls and other trees growing inside it! And those waterfalls are not just eye-candy. There are no invisible walls protecting you from sliding down one and ending up someplace you have no business being.

That's a well-designed area. It's fun to play in, not boring to look at, and it's uncompromisingly lethal if you go looking for trouble. That's what we would like to see more of in FFXIV regions.

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Don't forget that a dragon lives at the top of the tree. Man I need to revisit that zone. The whole zi'tah/ro'maeve/boyahda area is awesome.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

True. One of the main issues with FFXI was the grind-factor involved, no doubt. We're in agreement on that. But that was a flaw of the entire game, not a particular zone.

What were talking about is the visual design of zones themselves, the placement of the monsters in that zone, and what those monsters are ... not how many monsters we need to grind for us to move on to the next zone. That is a related subject, but that's not what we are talking about in this thread ... and not what we're talking about when we recount the sense of newness, inspiration, and fear when we arrived in a new area in FFXI.

Perfect example ... The Boyahda Tree. Saying that it's a giant tree that monsters live in that you grind simply doesn't do the amazing design of that area justice. It's a tree that's so big it has rivers, waterfalls and other trees growing inside it! And those waterfalls are not just eye-candy. There are no invisible walls protecting you from sliding down one and ending up someplace you have no business being.

That's a well-designed area. It's fun to play in, not boring to look at, and it's uncompromisingly lethal if you go looking for trouble. That's what we would like to see more of in FFXIV regions.

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Well put. If they added in a good grind mechanic like SP chains while also retaining leves, I think it would be a good balance. One or the other doesn't really work. Leves work nice for quick SP regardless of how boring they are but what do you do once you find your 8 leves? Wait 36 hours until they reset so you can SP again? Having a decent SP chain system to provide decent SP/hr would be nice to have so you could work on other classes as well. This tied to of course some kinda diversity in the game 'zones' and of course a reworked combat system that doesn't put you to sleep while you kill mobs in 20s. The grind atm is pretty much kill efts or kill raptors in two or three different areas from 30 > 50. I'll stick to crafting while watching more tv.

Beautifully described, Sorel. :)

This thread certainly isn't asking for changes in any of the battle mechanics. Though minor conversation pops up once in a while, it's definitely not the heart of this thread. What this thread really represents and asks for is merely any information on the future for our bloated, empty, directionless, soulless maps. Zones that take us nowhere and appear to be floating in space, connecting to each other as an afterthought. Zones that provide no sense of adventure or progression. Zones that have mobs from 1 to 99 right outside the city walls.


Thanks again for the overwhelming support for this topic, everyone. Realizing this issue is just as important and strong to others, I truly wanted to bring this to the attention of the reps. And we really spoke out, with 75 pages, 26,000+views, 250+ likes, and 730+ replies. Based on history, they seem to focus on 2-7 page threads.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

True. One of the main issues with FFXI was the grind-factor involved, no doubt. We're in agreement on that. But that was a flaw of the entire game, not a particular zone.

What were talking about is the visual design of zones themselves, the placement of the monsters in that zone, and what those monsters are ... not how many monsters we need to grind for us to move on to the next zone. That is a related subject, but that's not what we are talking about in this thread ... and not what we're talking about when we recount the sense of newness, inspiration, and fear when we arrived in a new area in FFXI.

Perfect example ... The Boyahda Tree. Saying that it's a giant tree that monsters live in that you grind simply doesn't do the amazing design of that area justice. It's a tree that's so big it has rivers, waterfalls and other trees growing inside it! And those waterfalls are not just eye-candy. There are no invisible walls protecting you from sliding down one and ending up someplace you have no business being.

That's a well-designed area. It's fun to play in, not boring to look at, and it's uncompromisingly lethal if you go looking for trouble. That's what we would like to see more of in FFXIV regions.

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I know you love romanticising areas based on what you apparently VERY vaguely remember (I can't imagine you've visited that zone recently), but Boyahda isn't what I would describe as a well-designed zone at all. It's just a bunch of caves, the supposed context that you're in a giant tree makes no difference when it's just a bigger version of crawlers nest that's a bit less annoying to navigate. Nothing about that place suggests good design.
If you want to slide down...things, Ulegurand Range had that huge hill to do it with, if that's your idea of good design.

If you want to talk about good design, why not think about the gorgeous and consistently unique and interesting ToAU zones? The undersea ruins were pretty amazing. Or even the CoP zones? The promyvion zones were so creepy and had such character, Tu'Lia was just awesome.

But Boyahda? God I hated that place.

Edit: Or even the WoTG zones, Vunkerl Inlet was possibly the nicest outdoor zone added with that sort of meadow-y look to it.

I loved climbing up to the top of Ulegurand for no other reason than to toss myself over the cliff.

Or Caedarva Mire, and my first encounter with a Chigoe. The ones in this game are good, but nothing compared to XI's chigoes.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

If you want to talk about good design, why not think about the gorgeous and consistently unique and interesting ToAU zones? The undersea ruins were pretty amazing. Or even the CoP zones? The promyvion zones were so creepy and had such character, Tu'Lia was just awesome.

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Now you are getting into the spirit! :D

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IFFXIV has many a fault, and I am prone to pointing them out, but the last thing the game needs is another Dunes (I mean, we already have a DunesFOLK). Nor does it need another quifim.

The reason I say this is because grinding is boring!

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I'm sorry but I don't see how XIV is any different in the grind department. You grind the same Chitinous Coblyns, Dusty Mongrels, Fellbite Peistes, Ill-tempered Pterocs and Ravenous Billygoats in the same 4 leves from R30-50. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. If that isn't bad enough they don't even give you the option to grind them as long as you want to, you are stuck with a levequest telling you when you have to finish.

A grind is a grind is a grind is a grind...is a grind wrapped inside of a grind hey we heard you liked grinds so we got you a grind for your grind so you can grind up your grind.

The game could use some other sources of "grinding". It is in heavy need of more options. Give us quest hubs to grind (they are), give us exp mobs to chain (they are) and try and make the leve system not gay (they are).

either way it seems to just come down to size tbh. The zone in FFXI were big, but no so big and not so over used that you just got utterly sick of them (though bringing as many sub jobs through a place like the dunes might wear you out on them, but its still not a bad zone in any way) All in all id much rather 1/3 of the zone size with more variety then whats really the same thing repeated to death. Imagine if a couple years from now and you on your 5+ job and you just end up doing the same tiresome leves through the same few oversized zones...man that would make my head explode. The only saving grace is anima and being able to skip over running to it....and still it barely helps.

Either give us giant zones that transition to new types of areas ex: from uldah to the boat, the closer you get to it, the more green and water you see, mini oasis pop up more and more, palm tress start coming in..ect

or make the zones much smaller and gives us a bunch. The only other game i remember that had a MASSIVE seamless world was Vanguard...and that didnt end up working out so well.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

^ thats what FFXI didnt get right...well nor has any MMO at this point, balancing quest play and grinding well enough so that each is good enough to do. Im not a fan of just doing one or the other, but so far this game has made it a point to say "do leve's and behest" because they are FAR superior to normal grind partys. The fact that the leves are mostly all the same dont help much either.

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I agree with the balancing of grinding and quest is a must. This gives a player options instead of just being forced to do one thing.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Or Caedarva Mire, and my first encounter with a Chigoe. The ones in this game are good, but nothing compared to XI's chigoes.

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Yeah, XI's were much better. I think we all had times when we were just passing through and didn't notice them until they're sucking on our blood. Tiny little blighters didn't half keep you on your toes.

Is it realistic to ask for a zone, where all three zones can meet at level 20 and form groups to grind aka the dunes from ffxi?

I'm for any change, really. They don't have to redo the terrain, but at least provide us with different ambient effects in different sub zones. By that, I mean the white noise as well as the music, and the lighting can change (think about how it changes in a single zone for day or night or purple weather in MorDhana etc). Then, varying mobs and structures and/or ground clutter so that they are specific to that specific area. And if this crazy engine can handle it, the actual ground textures.

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Originally Posted by Skky

Is it realistic to ask for a zone, where all three zones can meet at level 20 and form groups to grind aka the dunes from ffxi?

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Yeah I honestly think that is realistic. It's exactly what they should have done with Coerthas and MorDhona. 1-20 in either of the 3 starting areas and then 20-30-40-50 in either coerthas or mordhona. Would have made 100x more sense than what we have atm lol.

That's the thing! Once open beta started, and the whole world was open to us for the first time, I thought Thanalan, La Noscea, and Black Shroud were 1-30 zones, and Coerthas and Mor Dhona were 30-50 zones.

That would've been great if it were true.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

That's the thing! Once open beta started, and the whole world was open to us for the first time, I thought Thanalan, La Noscea, and Black Shroud were 1-30 zones, and Coerthas and Mor Dhona were 30-50 zones.

That would've been great if it were true.

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Would have been better, but not great really. Would have a better progression for sure, but the world would still be as bland and lifeless as it is right now. Thanalan, BS and La Noscea are too big for their own good, even more it they were 1-30 unless they make sub-zones within them that are diversed and full of life, maybe if they have 3-5 sub-zones, there could be choices to the player as to where to go at any rank, so there would be progression, diversity, and some freedom all at the same time. And then repeat this for 30-50 in Coertas and Mor Dhona.

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Originally Posted by Richard

A grind is a grind is a grind is a grind...is a grind wrapped inside of a grind hey we heard you liked grinds so we got you a grind for your grind so you can grind up your grind.

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I LOL'ed.

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Originally Posted by Richard

The game could use some other sources of "grinding". It is in heavy need of more options. Give us quest hubs to grind (they are), give us exp mobs to chain (they are) and try and make the leve system not gay (they are).

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Absolutely. No offense to anyone, but many FFXI vets who haven't played other MMOs are in this mindset that the only option other than leves is pure undisguised grinding. There are other ways to play and level, that are truly fun and satisfying.

I'm hoping the upcoming dungeons will deliver, and make those who want some real nitty gritty satisfying party play happy. I'd really like to see some quest-based content that also gives SP. I've seen some real knee-jerk reactions to the mere mention of quest-based leveling in this game. That it isn't feasible in a multi-class game, and just makes soloing more viable. I'm SE could find a way to implement it. It wouldn't have to be viable to do it all the way to cap. Just as long as it gives you more options to break up the grind.

Hey we heard you like options so we opted to get you options so you can opt with your options. ;)

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I LOL'ed.



Absolutely. No offense to anyone, but many FFXI vets who haven't played other MMOs are in this mindset that the only option other than leves is pure undisguised grinding. There are other ways to play and level, that are truly fun and satisfying.

I'm hoping the upcoming dungeons will deliver, and make those who want some real nitty gritty satisfying party play happy. I'd really like to see some quest-based content that also gives SP. I've seen some real knee-jerk reactions to the mere mention of quest-based leveling in this game. That it isn't feasible in a multi-class game, and just makes soloing more viable. I'm SE could find a way to implement it. It wouldn't have to be viable to do it all the way to cap. Just as long as it gives you more options to break up the grind.

Hey we heard you like options so we opted to get you options so you can opt with your options. ;)

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More options is always good, even if the quests are not repeatable when you change job/class, at least it gave you a break from leves/grind/behest and rewarded your time you spent doing the quest with some SP on top of it.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Yeesh, try and say that quickly!

But yeah, whilst it might be quite pointless (If people really are expecting area re-designs, they're being totally unrealistic), it would be nice to see some plans (as I'm sure they have) of how to deal with it going forward.

Honestly, what I expect to happen is that future zones added will be more interesting, and the current zones might be adjusted in level to funnel people up through them quickly, rather than have everyone use the same area permenantly.

There are some huge open spaces not being used that could be in the future, maybe for things like hamlet defense or even (/shieldsup) player-company buildings? They could easily add towns/HNMs/danger to the areas further in.

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The "people crying foul" on the forums may not represent the entire community but that is mainly because the entire community left the game after the first month of release. Had you read this topic no one has once said the game should funnel you into a certain zone, people are asking for the zones to be unique and the game should give you options - i.e., multiple zones balanced for a given rank range. People are using FFXI because it was close to doing it right, FFXIV has done it completely backwards. Maybe its too much to ask for a complete map re-design but tbh #@$^ them for the crap they half assed and the fact that they still ignore this topic. Yes, I would take a "we have no plans for this" over nothing...but if that's the case then they don't care about making FFXIV better. The entire game today is the size of Vana'Diel (vanilla) and has 5 zones compared to the 25 some FFXI had at release...forget loading screens, I'm talking variety. But on the topic of loading screens, FFXIV gets rid of them by making long drawn out tunnels to get you from area to area, that's not even called seamless that's called $@#!in annoying. The entire overworld design of this game is boring as hell and if they don't change it, they change nothing really.

^ Mack has to right of it. No one asked to be funneled or directed from one area to the other. We ask that each sub-zone to be different from each other with different graphics/design/music so that you feel like you progress through different area. Since the zones are really big, they can design each starter big zone like thanalan to be from rank 1 to 30, but since Thanalan could easily be at the minimum 5 sub-zones, that would mean we could have more than 1 sub-zone for lets say rank 10-15, giving the player a choice of where to go (assuming that the design is well done and that if there are 2 areas for rank 10-15 that both of them are as rewarding so that there is actually a choice to do).

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Honestly, it ain't that great. Lots of people have rose-tinted glasses here and like to make up crazy and long-winded stories about how AMAZING it was, but mostly it was just poor design and frustration back in the day. I'm sure people here would write about the sun hitting the GLORIOUS DUNES OF VALKURM and how BEAUTIFUL it was, and how MAGNIFICENT the fish were that 1-shotted people on a regular basis.

I have fond memories, don't get me wrong. But as far as zones go, Qufim was pretty balls.

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Not a case of rose tinted glasses son. You miss my point.

10 years ago someone designed an area that was a barren wasteland of ice and snow that folks grinded the day away in. Still to this day people are there banging away at books, killing crabs, smashing the crap out of Giants.

10 years ago. 10.

FFxi is a grind fest. It is. I'm not arguing that.

My point is that back in the day Quifim and others like it made by SE were diverse - in quifim's case, it even had a changing weather condition that meant death to under 25s if you didn't get your ass sorted. Nearly every area in 11 has its own distinct feel and potential for getting bummed by a mob - grindfest or not.

Game mechanics are a separate issue. 11 was balls in general because of the grind and the leveling curve to 75. Not because of the areas.