Summoner Needs to be buffed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CKNovel

I'm not against a SMN buff, mobility tax is nothing but a massive joke that.
However, it has to come with a PLD and Physical ranged buff.

---

I don't think anyone here would disagree with across the board buffs for those jobs along with Summoner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Damage-increasing party buffs are already accounted for in rDPS. Dancer and Machinist are still terrible... even in rDPS (i.e., when accounting for all the damage they give to others).

That leaves their low performance explainable only by "fees" for...

• Troubadour, Tactician, and Shield Samba,
• Nature's Minne, Improvisation, and Curing Waltz,
• being considered easier to play, be that due to among the simplest rotations (MCH especially) or their hypermobility,

and/or

• presently poor tuning.

---

Honestly, I really don't understand your point. Most due to the fact I'm just tired of this argument of "SMN belongs with phy range bc its easy/mobility" I don't care if smn out dps rdms, I just think rdm and smn should to be more on par with each other. If you compare them they off about the same buffs but rdm does have more freedom with rezzing and utility. but smn is the one being punished just back of this dumb rework and under tuning. I just don't want to be put in the pos to choice to between rdm and smn or get kicked of groups bc I don't like playing rdm. Between here and the balance discord I feel smn is the red-headed stepchild of the community and hate it so much. Feel like everyone is against giving smn a small buff and keeping it down. Might as well just delete the job all together in 7.0 :-/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin

Honestly, I really don't understand your point. Most due to the fact I'm just tired of this argument of "SMN belongs with phy range bc its easy/mobility" I don't care if smn out dps rdms, I just think rdm and smn should to be more on par with each other. If you compare them they off about the same buffs but rdm does have more freedom with rezzing and utility. but smn is the one being punished just back of this dumb rework and under tuning. I just don't want to be put in the pos to choice to between rdm and smn or get kicked of groups bc I don't like playing rdm. Between here and the balance discord I feel smn is the red-headed stepchild of the community and hate it so much. Feel like everyone is against giving smn a small buff and keeping it down. Might as well just delete the job all together in 7.0 :-/

---

Shurrikhan is talking about physical ranged and how instead of there being a tax for having a single role utility and piddly heals, the jobs are just under tuned. He didn't say anything about summoner at all here. Summoner does the same damage as red mage after the phoenix buff in 6.05. It has 25% representation among casters in Savage right now, with three times more clears than black mage. What more do you want here? At least you aren't competing with bard as dancer or machinist, where bard has 95% playrate because of how bad the other jobs in the role are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin

Honestly, I really don't understand your point. Most due to the fact I'm just tired of this argument of "SMN belongs with phy range bc its easy/mobility" I don't care if smn out dps rdms, I just think rdm and smn should to be more on par with each other. If you compare them they off about the same buffs but rdm does have more freedom with rezzing and utility. but smn is the one being punished just back of this dumb rework and under tuning. I just don't want to be put in the pos to choice to between rdm and smn or get kicked of groups bc I don't like playing rdm. Between here and the balance discord I feel smn is the red-headed stepchild of the community and hate it so much. Feel like everyone is against giving smn a small buff and keeping it down. Might as well just delete the job all together in 7.0 :-/

---

You made the claim that "the reason phy range has low dam is because two out of the three are heavy on party utility." The problem with that claim is that two out of three Physical Ranged have low rDPS (raid DPS, which is damage dealt plus bonus damage given minus bonus damage received) as well, not just low aDPS or raw DPS. To put it another way, most of that utility is already accounted for in that still-low ranking.

If I were talking about Summoner, the word "Summoner", or any variant thereof, would appear in the post. I critiqued your explanation for Physical Ranged jobs' (especially, the two non-Bards therein) low performance -- nothing more. Unless the likes of Tactician, by itself, warrants such a huge damage gap (yes, even in the sense of rDPS), that reason cannot hold water.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

You made the claim that "the reason phy range has low dam is because two out of the three are heavy on party utility." The problem with that claim is that two out of three Physical Ranged have low rDPS (raid DPS, which is damage dealt plus bonus damage given minus bonus damage received) as well, not just low aDPS or raw DPS. To put it another way, most of that utility is already accounted for in that still-low ranking.

If I were talking about Summoner, the word "Summoner", or any variant thereof, would appear in the post. I critiqued your explanation for Physical Ranged jobs' (especially, the two non-Bards therein) low performance -- nothing more. Unless the likes of Tactician, by itself, warrants such a huge damage gap (yes, even in the sense of rDPS), that reason cannot hold water.

---

Listen my reply was mostly to this whole thread. The reason I said I didn't understand your post because is that I'm tired of all the arguments that is involving phy range and smn, my brain was melting yesterday from reading all these dumb posts. Nothing aginst you and your post personally. So really didnt need the explanation. I even put that in my replay "Most due to the fact I'm just tired of this argument of "SMN belongs with phy range bc its easy/mobility""

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nyarlha

Looks some people are going to be seething now that we are pretty close to RDM after the buff. Right where we are supposed to be. :)

---

Yup, although still I think we SMn are too low. I feel as RDM should be the lowest caster because it has all the same utility and mobility but also has dual cast. Which can be used whenever vs swiftcast every 60sec.

They need to ether just put aetherflow stacks to the axe on SMN. Just leave fester and painflaire as 10-15 sec oGCD abilities. If they wanna keep aetherflow stacks then use that to generate the summons or when using a summon you get an aetherflow stack and at 3 stacks it lets you use bahamut/pheonix demis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

The heals are honestly kinda meh since they're tied to Phoenix, I mean are you going to hold Phoenix until healing is '' needed ''?
It's not like the Reaper shield that can just be used on demand.

I dunno if we should count a self shield either.

---

agree, the phoenix healing us actually useless (just remove it), and give us a tick mire dps.., so atleast Rdm (with lots of utility), isnt still ahead of us

... Smn used to be high dps with little utility (compared to other casters & melee)
... now its low dps with little utility :/ (did Yoshi wanna play safe, since im the last Smn changes, he overshot the Smn dps?? .. so we will expect a Smn buff in the future?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TiF

Yup, although still I think we SMn are too low. I feel as RDM should be the lowest caster because it has all the same utility and mobility but also has dual cast. Which can be used whenever vs swiftcast every 60sec.

---

If you think SMN, which only has three casts every minute, has less mobility than anything that isn't a Machinist, Bard, or Dancer, you're having a laugh mate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiroe

agree, the phoenix healing us actually useless (just remove it), and give us a tick mire dps.., so atleast Rdm (with lots of utility), isnt still ahead of us

... Smn used to be high dps with little utility (compared to other casters & melee)
... now its low dps with little utility :/ (did Yoshi wanna play safe, since im the last Smn changes, he overshot the Smn dps?? .. so we will expect a Smn buff in the future?)

---

My read on it is they are waiting until they have more numbers to make a decision. They band-aided SMN with a small boost to Phoenix and then will look to feedback and savage numbers. Its likely rotational changes will be implemeted in 6.1 - but this should be caveated with that any change is not going to be ground breaking, so we may find thats its only a change to the mechanics of how the arcanum summons work. Which also will change the potencies of those attacks.

I think arguing over mobility and utility and the like to justify where smn should sit its a pointless endevour. Not a single one of us knows where it shoudl really fit because we dont know the matrix they use for balance beyond More utility = less dps. There is no way of knowing if the Physical ranged dps is lower due to mobility, or due to the utility they have because there is no metric to apply to each skill.

What we can say is that Rotational changes are required as the overwhelming sentiment from the summoner threads is that the job is a little too simple. I see that from those who like and those who hate the rework.

In any case. Hopefully changes will come and the job will improve.