Poll: Gear progression, horizontal or vertical?

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Originally Posted by MagnamStyle

once they drop ps support

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I doubt they will drop PS4 support anytime soon, and by "soon" I mean soon©.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

So you turn it from a game where all jobs are viable for all content to stacking the best job because they are no langer balanced with your idea, thus it turns into FFXI where, if you didnt have a geared FOTM job, you didn't get to clear the content?

And you wonder why people think your ideas are bad.....

It had those points, where at launch, PLD was more effective than WAR in blinding coil, so WAR was excluded. DRG was sub optimal in Final coil due to low magic resist and heavy magic damage AE, so they were excluded. They where fixed, they are perfectly viable now for all content. SMN is getting modified due it being less effective than BLM in a lot of content and thus will be as viable.

That sounds more like class issues then gear issues. It was fixed.

Maybe if you could think of the overall picture instead of just yourself, even you would start to see how dumb an idea that is.

BTW GW2 sucks :P

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I didn't say it didn't. However your talking about classes, not items. Of course a better class would be prefered, however that doesn't mean it cannot do it. I am sure Warrior at the time did something better then Paladin.

However, GW2 does suck. There was really no choice, berserker gear was just the best.

I don't think that was a good designed game because it had a lot of problems. My examples come from Everquest mostly where the design worked VERY well.

However, Everquest and FFXI are different games (very different) then FFXIV. I am saying it can work very well and make it very fun. Everquest II's unique gearing system is one of the reasons it was popular for a bit. "Oh? A game where I have choice in my character's design? I don't have to be like everyone else?"

FFXI wasn't a very good game, so giving examples from that game isn't very.. convincing.

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Originally Posted by MagnamStyle

once they drop ps support and focus on PC they could have more headroom for things like this, i just hope they know that the powercreep path IMO is not very sustainable..

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please, explain how the game being on ps3/4 is preventing horizontal gear? inb4 easy route saying it has to do with character data size.

Horizontal. I prefer gear with unique attributes where different builds can be made for cool stuff to happen. i200 > i180 is very boring and bland, not to mention nothing ever changes other than "Oh, my gear isn't good enough to participate in this event feasibly." or "Oh, my gear is too good for this event, guess I'll just solo tank in Sword Oath."

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

FFXI wasn't a very good game, so giving examples from that game isn't very.. convincing.

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Final Fantasy XI is getting it's last content patch in November of this year. It lasted 14 years with expansions and content patches. Do you think FFXIV will still be getting new content in 2027? It's possible but seems unlikely to me, 14 years is a long time for a bad game to maintain a profitable subscriber base.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Final Fantasy XI is getting it's last content patch in November of this year. It lasted 14 years with expansions and content patches. Do you think FFXIV will still be getting new content in 2027? It's possible but seems unlikely to me, 14 years is a long time for a bad game to maintain a profitable subscriber base.

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Huh? I actually don't know anyone who plays it and never heard of the game. It apparently had 200k subscribers in 2006. That.. isn't very successful. I mean if it only had 200k in 2006, I'd imagine its like nothing now.

I mean, the SWG Emulator has more subscribers then that. "NOW"

Just because something still exists doesn't really mean its good. However - just because it doesn't have many players doesn't mean its bad either. I just... I don't hear anything of that game.

Which, isn't a good sign.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

please, explain how the game being on ps3/4 is preventing horizontal gear? inb4 easy route saying it has to do with character data size.

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Console limitations is certainly the problem of many things in ffxiv, but gear progression? I dont see it either.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Maybe if you could think of the overall picture instead of just yourself, even you would start to see how dumb an idea that is.

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Huh? Arent you one of those in this thread that are arguing because of your own bias , rather in response of arguments?

Good arguments have been given for and against horizontal, yours are not amongst them.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

I'm not speaking for everyone, but thanks for the insinuation ;) Not everyone hordes gear for glamour, everyone likely won't for this. But to say that no-one will and that it won't bloat any inventories. That is denial.

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Perhaps youd like to read the post you quoted again.


Why are you repeating my argument and making it sound like its yours?

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Why are you repeating my argument and making it sound like its yours?

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Because what you were accusing me of was drivel with no basis. Maybe you should re-read the post of mine you quoted and then re-read your response. ;)

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Huh? I actually don't know anyone who plays it and never heard of the game. It apparently had 200k subscribers in 2006. That.. isn't very successful. I mean if it only had 200k in 2006, I'd imagine its like nothing now.

I mean, the SWG Emulator has more subscribers then that. "NOW"

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200k subscribers is a LOT, especially post-WoW.
People just seem to confuse "accounts" with "subscriber numbers."
F2P games can count accounts, as once you make one you're part of their business. Some people have multiple accounts. Since XI actually DELETES inactive accounts (or at least, they did) then they can't use this data. SWG Emulator DOES use this data, since they don't HAVE subscribers.
P2P games have to count subscribers.
With 200k subscribers, XI was VERY successful. To this day it's still SE's most profitable Final Fantasy ever.
Just because you haven't heard of it, doesn't mean it's not popular.
Also, how the heck can you call it "not a good game" when you apparently haven't played it?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Rare Drops in Dungeons, Common Drops in Raids, Rare Drops in Trials? In Everquest II there were about 70 pieces of unique gear.

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You...probably weren't around for the early days of the game I take it.
See, to get to that "horizontal progression" took years and years of expansions and new content. When the game started and up through Desert of Flames, the game was pretty much exactly like XIV is now, with the exception of a few special "effect" items that were damn near required (looking at you, manastone!) to do endgame content.
There were no options. You HAD to have this gear. And let's not even get into how unimaginative the armor designs were (the lvl 40, 50, and 55 plate armor looked EXACTLY THE SAME, just tinted a little different)
There's a reason they felt the need to add an Appearance Slot (probably one of the better ones out there IMO...even if most of the options looked meh)
Oh and EQ2 did vertical progression as well. Every expansion, with the exception of gimmick items, all your old gear became instantly outdated. Hell my lvl 50 raid gear was replaced instantly by Mastercrafted (yes, CRAFTED) lvl 55 gear in a week. A practice they only really stopped when they slowed down raising the level cap, and even then it wasn't "sidegrades" as much as "inclinegrades"
And that's not even getting into how they felt the need to add a quest to strip the effect off your Mythic weapon because, while the effect for many classes was VERY good, the stats were outdated the very next expansion.

For PVE i like it vertical. For PvP i think gear should not matter.