So votekick >abuse< is practically allowed?

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Vote kick is a good thing to have, I have often seen it used in an appropriate manner, I'd go as far as to call it a "necessary" function. However, vote kick abuse should be a serious offense and should be investigated and punished, not ignored or called okay as it currently is.

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I agree with you, but I sincerely doubt S-E cares enough to enforce the rules, or at least enforce them 100% of the time. I've made multiple reports for vote kick abuse and I still see it happening, in fact, I see it happen more and more as time passes.

I figure we can keep vote abandon as a happy medium where it's equal for everbody.

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Originally Posted by Amused

I'd rather have no vote kick option than to have it exist and be abused.

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Yeah, I'd rather not have that happen.

That would only increase peoples toxicity while using DF. "I can fuck about cause no one can kick me."

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Originally Posted by Jeckyl_Tesla

Yeah, I'd rather not have that happen.

That would only increase peoples toxicity while using DF. "I can fuck about cause no one can kick me."

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That's what vote abandon exists for.

I rarely ever see people intentionally sabotaging parties, on the other hand, I frequently see people abuse vote kick.

Even before we had vote kick it was a rarity for people to sabotage a party by not participating, or just screwing things up for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Amused

That's what vote abandon exists for.

I rarely ever see people intentionally sabotaging parties, on the other hand, I frequently see people abuse vote kick.

Even before we had vote kick it was a rarity for people to sabotage a party by not participating, or just screwing things up for everyone.

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You didn't play before there was vote kick. There was so much afk.

Your idea of vote kick abuse is flawed if you see it often, because it doesn't happen often.
-kicking someone for being bad and making it difficult to continue is OK
-kicking someone for being grossly undergeared making them die constantly and being a deadweight is OK
-kicking someone for refusing to go along with the majority strategy as discussed by the party is OK
-kicking someone for not participating is OK

You remember that story, where a dude takes a piss in a massive 300+ million gallon open air reservoir, then a manager wanted to drain the whole thing just because of that? That manager is you wanting to vote abandon because of one person.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

You didn't play before there was vote kick.

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Except that I did?

How could you possibly think that I didn't play? What made you jump to that conclusion? My account is legacy, which you could easily find out if you checked my lodestone. I was here at the launch of 1.0 XIV, and I was here at the launch of XIV ARR. Even my forum join date should have given you a hint.

>-kicking someone for being bad and making it difficult to continue is OK
No.
>-kicking someone for being grossly undergeared making them die constantly and being a deadweight is OK
No.
>-kicking someone for refusing to go along with the majority strategy as discussed by the party is OK
Debatable.
>-kicking someone for not participating is OK
Yes.

There was not "so much afk", and certainly not as much afk as there is vote kick abuse occurring.

Funny, I've repeatedly kicked people for the things you say "no" to and yet.. I'm still here! I also specifically asked a GM about those cases and the response was that it would need an investigation, not a flat out "no", which means a kick for those reasons can be justified when used appropriately.

I also find it strange that you say its ok to kick someone for not participating.. but that guy being dead because they are bad and undergeared is also not participating but kicking them is wrong now?

If vote abuse was a real problem, GM policy would change. It isn't, so it doesn't happen anywhere as often as you seem to think it does. Probably because your view is wrong on what is and what is not an improper use of the feature.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

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> -kicking someone for being bad and making it difficult to continue is OK
No, it's not

> -kicking someone for being grossly undergeared making them die constantly and being a deadweight is OK
No, it's not

> -kicking someone for refusing to go along with the majority strategy as discussed by the party is OK
That's only true for pre-made parties where such special conditions were explicitly listed in Party Finder (or otherwise agreed to by everyone involved). In that case, anyone joining the group is considered to have agreed to the rules for that group. Anyone joining through DF, however, has NOT made any such automatic agreement just by being there.

Agreeing to a rule and then not following it is a kickable offence. Refusing to have your ideas forced on them when they're doing their DF run is NOT a kickable offence.

> -kicking someone for not participating is OK
Yes, provided you mean not participating at all.

When I say strategy, I mean approach to completing the duty. The only loot rules in DF is which roll button you are able to press.

You might not think those reasons are ok (even though they are valid reasons!). And that's why vote kick needs at least 50% of the vote to pass. Amazing concept!

You are not entitled to be useless in DF if a majority wants you gone. Please consider excellent Single Player RPG such as other games in the Final Fantasy series where you may interact with NPCs and not other players, or many other great single player open-world sandbox games where you are free to play as you want. Because when you enter DF, there are expectations that you perform your job role in an adequate manner to complete the duty. If a majority of the players in that duty decide you are not, vote kick is justified.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

If it only happens once, then I don't see the problem if the person would just nut up and shut up.
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What kind of foolishness is this? Sure think skin helps, but not everyone is armored like a turtle or armadillo.

An attitude like this is wrong on so many level. How about if some hacked your account and you don't even talk to SE customer service about it. It only happened once... right on. That makes a lot of sense. How about don't call the cops because your neighbor is being executed by the local gangbanger? They can only get killed once. This is why neighborhoods go down the drain btw. If there is a real problem, people should bring it up and discuss it. There can be debate about whether the problem is real or not, but telling people to be quiet, taking away their free speech rights, is non-starter.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

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You are not entitled to be useless in DF if a majority wants you gone. ...

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A troll being afk, deliberately wiping is being useless, or perhaps even worse than useless. But a new/newer player learning the dungeon for the firs time are not being useless, nor are players gearing up. The majority is not right every time and there are cases where the minority must be protected. Because we are not privy to the GM cases reports, how well SE handles the vote kick abuse is impossible to determine, but I've seen people get penalties for vote kick abuse, as well as seeing trolls get penalties for trolling.

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Originally Posted by Amused

That's what vote abandon exists for.

I rarely ever see people intentionally sabotaging parties, on the other hand, I frequently see people abuse vote kick.

Even before we had vote kick it was a rarity for people to sabotage a party by not participating, or just screwing things up for everyone.

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Yeah sorry, I'm not going to slough through the entirety of a dungeon, to the last boss and than vote abandon because some guy is just refusing to move and is mouthing off. Not happening.

I'll just kick him, get a replacement and move on with my life. Simpler.