BLM and SMN BUFFs info is coming out!! PATCH 2.3 Preliminary

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

Well, figures they'd kill off the last few tricks that BLM had... Hurray for clunky rotations!

Hope the folks who nagged about "BLM aoe is SOOO strong, they dont deserve an ST buff!"... Well, you got your wish, enjoy farming myth tomes all that much slower.

In any event, lets see... Assuming that you can now ONLY cast Flare in AF3...

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I don't think that Flare can ONLY be cast under AF3. The way I read it, they got rid of the mana tick AFTER Flare had been cast. So we should still be able to do Transpose - F2 - Flare...

There just won't be the Transpose - wait - Flare - Flare... anymore.

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Originally Posted by vyaku

so a geared whm with cs holy spam is now that much better for aoe dps especially against a blm with convert/pot on cd.

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lol what? Honestly the "infinite" flare loop wasn't as strong as most thought it was, it often meant waiting for some prolonged period and didnt add up. If you got right on the money with timing and ticks and you had like 6+ targets... sure. Fire 2 + flare will still beat a whm.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

lol what? Honestly the "infinite" flare loop wasn't as strong as most thought it was, it often meant waiting for some prolonged period and didnt add up. If you got right on the money with timing and ticks and you had like 6+ targets... sure. Fire 2 + flare will still beat a whm.

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i think you decided to misunderstand what i said. i never said whm would be better aoe dps. i figuratively implied that the gap between their aoe dps and blm dps is now narrowed, which it would be with this nerf.

the only time you would ever have to potentially wait around on flare would be for your first mp tick after your first transpose. the rest of your flares from that point on would be perfectly in-line with the internal mp regen clock to where you would get your mp tick almost immediately every transpose afterwards. this makes it hands down the best dps when no cds are available when considering relatively longer windows of time where you could take advantage of riding the internal clock.

the only time fire2 rotations would win is if its a shorter length encounter and you ended up having to wait near the full amount of time before your first mp tick after your first transpose.

Ive already been in fire 2 --> flare -->convert mode for a while. I tried infinite flare, a little, but I didn't see it doing that much more dmg than fire 2 --> flare.

Is manawall the physical defense one? If that's what got nerfed...meh, lag basically renders 20 seconds almost nil if someone has to perfectly time it in the middle of a rotation rather than applying it during an umbral ice phase.

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Originally Posted by vyaku

i think you decided to misunderstand what i said. i never said whm would be better aoe dps. i figuratively implied that the gap between their aoe dps and blm dps is now narrowed, which it would be with this nerf.

the only time you would ever have to potentially wait around on flare would be for your first mp tick after your first transpose. the rest of your flares from that point on would be perfectly in-line with the internal mp regen clock to where you would get your mp tick almost immediately every transpose afterwards. this makes it hands down the best dps when no cds are available when considering relatively longer windows of time where you could take advantage of riding the internal clock.

the only time fire2 rotations would win is if its a shorter length encounter and you ended up having to wait near the full amount of time before your first mp tick after your first transpose.

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If the mob pack lives past 3 aoe flares then you have a terrible PT. This is pretty impractical... hell I can barely think of a situation (in my static) that I can get past the convert flare -> flare. This "nerf" is moot at the high end. Its the same in brayflox as well. Considering what I just said (and its true) then why would then remotely affect blms situation? Keep in mind that your other pts member produce damage also, and castinf fire 2 after the convert (with sch) is bad cause the mobs wont make it to the next flare if you do.

There are very few occasions where more than two consecutive flares are necessary (one normal cast, one convert+swiftcast). If you want to be really fancy, pop a pot for a third.

I wouldn't exactly consider stopping the infinite flare thing a 'nerf'. It's a slight inconvenience in dungeons where you make huge pulls and AoE down fast with a less-than-ideal group (DF?), though I can't think of one situation where it'd be a *real* hindrance in endgame.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

If the mob pack lives past 3 aoe flares then you have a terrible PT. This is pretty impractical... hell I can barely think of a situation (in my static) that I can get past the convert flare -> flare. This "nerf" is moot at the high end. Its the same in brayflox as well. Considering what I just said (and its true) then why would then remotely affect blms situation? Keep in mind that your other pts member produce damage also, and castinf fire 2 after the convert (with sch) is bad cause the mobs wont make it to the next flare if you do.

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i mentioned that this all was considering no cds so i'm not sure where you're getting your 3 flares from in the example you're trying to create. having no cds up is entirely practical if you're talking about brayflox and doing sr. fast runs and fast ques will never have your cds consistently ready for every pull or boss.

if you are talking about burst dps to finish off a pack post-transpose, then once you hit transpose and you are waiting on a tick of mp regardless, using that tick to hard cast a single target fire3 followed by fire2s is a much slower delivery of dps than if you would have just cast two aoe flares which would probably have been enough to finish the rest of the pack's HP off before you could even get off a second fire2 in your after-transpose rotation.

if the mobs still had enough HP left then your second fire2 and a flare could squeak by briefly with more dps but not for long as by this point the flare only rotation would already be entering another cycle while you would be getting ready to wait for a mp tick to cast another single target fire3. fire3 > fire2s > flare > transpose rotation also does not fit as effectively between mp ticks so you will generally have more downtime in your rotation the longer that it has to be sustained from waiting on mp ticks after transpose versus a flare cycle that rides the internal clock.

so yeah, this is a nerf in my book. go test your fire2 rotation with no cds against a good whm spamming cs holy under foe requiem.

you never answered the question that stands, why is the flare loop practical when you can simply fire 3, flare, convert, flare and if really necessary ether flare? the first pull in brayflox (though lolbrayflox shit doesnt matter anyway) you have RS on, if you are fast enough you get to the second row pack without cds, but either way the ice tick will slow you by at least a gcd. The next aoe pull you will have RS anyway. So there is maybe one scenario where it might be practical.

Either way I think my point still stands, in any setting that matters, you shouldn't be using that method of flare in the first place, no where in coil should you ever flare out of iceThe numbers simply don't add up. hell even on fights with three targets (situations to fire 2) you'd be hard pressed to give me math showing me its worth it. So no... this isn't a nerf to blm, the transpose flare thing was mostly impractical anyway, and in most situations where there is aoes the mob wont live past 2 flares. Besides after a certain threshhold the mobs will not live past 2 flares... RS or not.

Guys, 2 hours before server open up ....... excitement :P

Updated: Server is open up

Bio 2 reduce MP from 186 to 159 ( 27 MP lol )

seems meh for SMN