Is anyone else really disappointed with the nerfs coming in 2.2?

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Originally Posted by DragonFist

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I had found myself somewhat agreeing with your last post directed at me, but I'm back to disagreeing with you on this. I've had years of experience in other MMOs as well, and while I CAN say that all people are different, most people will in all likelihood flock to the easiest path to take in regards to content. If it's quick and efficient then it is "the way" to go, and that goes for all content old and new. That doesn't make any of it any less challenging, depending on the person though. A good bit of the newer generation of MMO players are all about the numbers and speed, and I speak from experience. I'm not saying EVERYONE will approach nerfed content in this game in this manner, but history repeats itself quite often.

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Originally Posted by ispano

It's an illusion of choice. Always has and always will be when the majority is against you. When the majority choose to keep the buff, and based on my experience, they will, even if you remove yours, the fight as a whole is still nerfed for that person. When the majority chooses to accept the buff, that leaves less people that want to do it at the normal difficulty, making it harder and sometimes impossible to find them. Again, this is from experience.

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It's not an illusion. Those choices are there. The fact that you aren't doing them are obvious though. Which is hilarious since now you're arguing that "others" are what prevent "you" when you were talking about "others" and not "you" previously to this statement.

Which means ApolloGenX was right in his observations.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I'm not obsessing about what others "might" do at all. I've just been around the block enough to get a general idea. Do I know that this is exactly how things will play out? Of course not. I do however have some experience in how people approach content that has been nerfed.

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That unhealthy obsession still lingers. Since people did it then, do it now, will be doing so in the future.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Until you, and others it seems, understand that having a "choice" does not mean you always get to exercise said choice, this conversation will go nowhere. People have tried to use that argument since likely before i've played MMOs. It still doesn't work.

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That's funny because you can exercise said choice but you only get to choose the outcome of one said choice. This conversation isn't going anywhere because you only want it your way not because there's a discussion to be had.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

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The only obsessing going on that I see is yours about what I have to say. If you don't agree with me, that is fine. This is a public forum. I am, however, not obsessing about anything. I'm taking part in a public discussion and expressing my own opinions as everyone else is. I'm not saying that I'm right, but it's the way I feel and how I have experienced things. I don't think it's a coincidence though that others have had the same experiences.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

So you get to partake in a public discussion but not I when it doesn't befit your interest? That's pretty funny.

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I never said anything to that affect. You are free to take part, just like everyone else in this thread is doing. I'm also allowed to disagree with you. You are allowed to disagree in turn. It's a public discussion.

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Originally Posted by ispano

poke.

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lmao not being allowed to choose between using a buff or not yeah because its totally locked onto your buff bar active and you totally are not allowed to seek players who also dont want the buff for content

explain to every1 how you wont get to exercise that choice because you kinda can and thats by making your own party instead of joining others

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The only obsessing going on that I see is yours about what I have to say. If you don't agree with me, that is fine. This is a public forum. I am, however, not obsessing about anything. I'm taking part in a public discussion and expressing my own opinions as everyone else is. I'm not saying that I'm right, but it's the way I feel and how I have experienced things. I don't think it's a coincidence though that others have had the same experiences.

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So you get to partake in a public discussion but not I when it doesn't befit your interest? That's pretty funny.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I had found myself somewhat agreeing with your last post directed at me, but I'm back to disagreeing with you on this. I've had years of experience in other MMOs as well, and while I CAN say that all people are different, most people will in all likelihood flock to the easiest path to take in regards to content. If it's quick and efficient then it is "the way" to go, and that goes for all content old and new. That doesn't make any of it any less challenging, depending on the person though. A good bit of the newer generation of MMO players are all about the numbers and speed, and I speak from experience. I'm not saying EVERYONE will approach nerfed content in this game in this manner, but history repeats itself quite often.

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some players might quit some might come back some might just stop doing endgame untill expansion comes out so they have a large amount of gear to gain instead of being bored after 3 months of farming coil and being max level for 'class' this echo buff really doesnt change content sure you get hp so you dont get 1shot sure you get extra dammage makes the fight shorter sure healers heal for alot more still doesnt stop players being screwed by T5 twintania dive wich knocks u into the fire wich is insta ko or titans landslide or garudas whirlwind crap a buff is a buff it will not stop players dieing however having 10k hp pld at i90 with 30% hp buff is pretty sweet XD

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

It's not an illusion. Those choices are there. The fact that you aren't doing them are obvious though. Which is hilarious since now you're arguing that "others" are what prevent "you" when you were talking about "others" and not "you" previously to this statement.

Which means ApolloGenX was right in his observations.

That's funny because you can exercise said choice but you only get to choose the outcome of one said choice. This conversation isn't going anywhere because you only want it your way not because there's a discussion to be had.

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Sorry, but it is an illusion. Making the choice to do the content unnerfed, but not being able to do said content because of that "choice" due to others making a different choice is not really a choice at all. So sure, you can make said choice, but it doesn't get you anywhere, which is why it's an illusion. Also, if you've read my posts, I see it both ways, I personally am indifferent to the change since I see the pros and cons to both. I also knew ahead of time this would be done.

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Originally Posted by DragonFist

lmao not being allowed to choose between using a buff or not yeah because its totally locked onto your buff bar active and you totally are not allowed to seek players who also dont want the buff for content

explain to every1 how you wont get to exercise that choice because you kinda can and thats by making your own party instead of joining others

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No, it's about choosing to do the content unnerfed. Just because random Joe A chooses he wants to do it unnerfed, doesn't mean he CAN. He has to find 7 other people who are also willing, which may not be possible depending on server and timezone. It's not so simple a choice, it only comes down to simple choice if the content is solo, like Story quest instances for example.

So tell me, how is he to do the content with no nerfs, if everyone else doesn't want to? It's like now, try to find a T2 group that DOESN'T abuse enrage, it happens sometimes if you find a static that's missing a member, but even now many statics do it as well.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Sorry, but it is an illusion. Making the choice to do the content unnerfed, but not being able to do said content because of that "choice" due to others making a different choice is not really a choice at all. So sure, you can make said choice, but it doesn't get you anywhere, which is why it's an illusion. Also, if you've read my posts, I see it both ways, I personally am indifferent to the change since I see the pros and cons to both. I also knew ahead of time this would be done.

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lol " Making the choice to do the content unnerfed, but not being able to do said content because of that "choice" due to others making a different choice is not really a choice at all."

this makes my day tell me are you against this echo buff and other nerfs because ive seen plenty of people do T2 the normal way and alot do it the enrage way just because the option is there not every 1 will go for it again your opinion is now invalid as proof of the fact people still do T2 normally you say there arent people willing to do the challenge yet there are people who do 1tank extremes solo heal extremes solo tank t4(havent seen t5 done yet) solo heal all t1-5. so the choice to make t5 harder with a solo healer or solo tank is there
theres no choice for not using the echo buff? lmao u make me laugh

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Originally Posted by DragonFist

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Again, I only speak from experience. When I was new to MMOs I thought like you, it didn't take long to see what happens most of the time however. It's still rather simple. Making a choice to do the content unnerfed, doesn't mean that person can. But on the other side, people who DO want to do it nerfed will have an EASY time of it. It's an illusion, and it's lopsided. I've already pointed out that I understand the pros and cons for and for not nerfing it. And i've told you some of those cons, and you just refuse to understand, so no need to continue with you.

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Originally Posted by DragonFist

lol " Making the choice to do the content unnerfed, but not being able to do said content because of that "choice" due to others making a different choice is not really a choice at all."

this makes my day tell me are you against this echo buff and other nerfs because ive seen plenty of people do T2 the normal way and alot do it the enrage way just because the option is there not every 1 will go for it again your opinion is now invalid as proof of the fact people still do T2 normally you say there arent people willing to do the challenge yet there are people who do 1tank extremes solo heal extremes solo tank t4(havent seen t5 done yet) solo heal all t1-5. so the choice to make t5 harder with a solo healer or solo tank is there
theres no choice for not using the echo buff? lmao u make me laugh

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That is indeed hilarious.