What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

Heavensward smells for me. I had more interest in Stormblood's story than HW.

overall i enjoy it but yeah for mmorpg it does great job at it, but if you compare it to actual story medium like movie/book it definitely on the "average" for me.

i dont hate meteion being the "culprit" of it but yeah it just so weird to introduce her in current EW, if anything they should introduce or at least hint the big bad final final boss earlier like back in SB era or something, that way it give her more "so it was her all along?" impact. but because it was introduce to us in EW and the writer just blatantly give her "look at her, now be friend with her, she cute and something horrid happened to her, you should feel sad" writing, it just come out strange for me at least

iam actually more interested if it was hermes the one who caused this all and meteion being the catalyst/sacrifice to make it happen considering how insane he is as fandaniel, like after meteion die, hermes gradually goes insane and during that cause all of this and become fandaniel, i would definitely more interested with that setting

what i hate the most in EW is definitely the labyrinthos moon rabbit part, the part where we need to help scientist by doing menial task, 2-3 quest of it would be fine but it just keep dragging on and on like what are they thinking? its pre titan fight ARR all over again.

the endsinger also weird me out a bit, not us wol or the endsinger but the zenos part, like he transform into dragon (forgot its name) and we on his back fight endsinger? ok that part is fine, but maybe he should.... i dont know interact a bit more during the fight? like endsinger literally bombard us with a giant planet to us but hello? zenos? thats your BACK she is aiming at? shouldnt you try to... i dont know erect a barrier or try to avoid it, or at least say something?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jybril

Players here will maul you the moment you say anything bad about this game.
EW is way less enjoyable, story-wise than SHB to me, I actually put it below SB if you ignore the Ala Mhigo part, which was really badly handled.

EW suffers from terrible pacing issues that should have been told across the entire expansion. I found it hilarious when we had the Forum people in the game say the sky is about to fall, you had a NPC literally ask "How long do we have?" the response, "Soon tm" then that night you choose your lover to come to see you, the next day all hell broke loose but no one really seems like they're in a panic and the rest of Eorzea is chilling.

Pacing, pacing, pacing. I'm still sorely disappointed how Garelmeld was held and the Moon too. Hopefully the next patches redeem itself because EW is not that great to me by any means.
Not to mention Meteion who was shoehorned. Sorry, I did not care about Hermes' love doll going evil or how Zenos had fook all to do with anything. I hope he's gone for good.

I'd say from best to worst in story expansions:
SHB > HW > SB > EW > ARR.
SB was saved for me because Doma/Steppes were actually a really good arcs. To hell with Ala Mhigo lol.

---

Have you read most of the posts about the EW story here? It's more likely the opposite. Most of the vocal posters have been attacking the story, not praising it, and have been fairly condescending to those who do like it. Heck the one post that actual praised it barely made it two pages before it was lost to time, yet this one is 69 pages long.

I just chalk it up to the nature of the official forums. It's 85% criticism of the game, 10% actual discussion and 5% troll posts. If people only had access to the forums for info, they'd literally think it's in a worse state than WoW and they shouldn't be playing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryaz

Have you read most of the posts about the EW story here? It's more likely the opposite. Most of the vocal posters have been attacking the story, not praising it, and have been fairly condescending to those who do like it. Heck the one post that actual praised it barely made it two pages before it was lost to time, yet this one is 69 pages long.

I just chalk it up to the nature of the official forums. It's 85% criticism of the game, 10% actual discussion and 5% troll posts. If people only had access to the forums for info, they'd literally think it's in a worse state than WoW and they shouldn't be playing it.

---

Agree. It is indeed the nature of the forums in every game I think. People that enjoy the story and game usually just post from time to time and be content so it usually get buried fast by those that are not content who posts multitude of negative criticism to keep driving their point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryaz

Have you read most of the posts about the EW story here? It's more likely the opposite. Most of the vocal posters have been attacking the story, not praising it, and have been fairly condescending to those who do like it. Heck the one post that actual praised it barely made it two pages before it was lost to time, yet this one is 69 pages long.

I just chalk it up to the nature of the official forums. It's 85% criticism of the game, 10% actual discussion and 5% troll posts. If people only had access to the forums for info, they'd literally think it's in a worse state than WoW and they shouldn't be playing it.

---

I haven’t seen too many people being condescending to people who like the story in my experience and i frequent posts like these fairly often. I think i’ve seen far more of a problem of people trying to write off others’ criticism purely because it’s a forum post or that their opinion is in the minority so it doesn’t matter. Tbf reddit and twitter are essentially the opposite of what you’re equating the forums to. It’s 85% pandering and game worshipping, 10% actual discussion, 5% troll posts. Criticism isn’t really common on those platforms as you’re basically immediately shit down, mass downvoted, or reported as a troll(which i’ve actually had happen and have had posts taken down because people couldn’t handle my criticism). The forums are a much more welcoming place in that regard and is a much more sage space to give opinions on the game than the other two.

I generally don't go into threads of people hating on something I love or ones loving something I hate. Both seem an unproductive and unenjoyable use of my time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhNooo

For story I actually put HW slightly over Shb so my story list would be HW > SHB > EW > SB > ARR

---

This is my ranking too. I think HW was the right balance, not too cheesy or gritty. The villain was understandable, but not so sympathetic and likeable you wanted to be BFFs. The protagonists suffered losses. We were spared most of the Saturday morning cartoon "power of friendship" nonsense, which unfortunately made a reappearance at the end of the two major boss fights in ShB despite it having an overall grimmer theme.

The Ala Mhigan half of SB sinks it and the Doma half alone isn't enough to put it above EW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garet

I still prefer the art and tone of the original Arslan but the remake did go a bit further than the original on the story :)

---

The art style of the Arslan remake is the main reason I haven't made more of an effort to watch it. Most of the character designs were a massive downgrade. I only watched some of Lodoss a long time ago and never finished it.

I personally thought the story was good, all be it rushed at times with pacing. My only complaint was after the Temple of Zot dungeon Y'shtola comments about it's power source having a man's arm in it.... and it's never addressed again. I get the feeling it was to be something bigger, but it just never got mentioned again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rulakir

The art style of the Arslan remake is the main reason I haven't made more of an effort to watch it. Most of the character designs were a massive downgrade. I only watched some of Lodoss a long time ago and never finished it.

---

Agree. The art style of the Arslan remake seems pointed towards a more younger audience I think. I also almost did not watch it because of that but I really wanted to know the story since the original was too short lived. The Original Arslan has a more mature art style and tone which is very nice and suited more the theme and setting of the story. Hence I hope if they do remake Record of Lodoss War that they maintain the tone of the original OVA even as they try to expand the story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alestorm

I personally thought the story was good, all be it rushed at times with pacing. My only complaint was after the Temple of Zot dungeon Y'shtola comments about it's power source having a man's arm in it.... and it's never addressed again. I get the feeling it was to be something bigger, but it just never got mentioned again.

---

It was mentioned if you run one of the dungeon's with certain trusts :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rulakir

I think HW was the right balance, not too cheesy or gritty. The villain was understandable, but not so sympathetic and likeable you wanted to be BFFs. The protagonists suffered losses. We were spared most of the Saturday morning cartoon "power of friendship" nonsense, which unfortunately made a reappearance at the end of the two major boss fights in ShB despite it having an overall grimmer theme.

---

Exactly this. HW definitely felt like it had the right balance for me. Although, one thing I did appreciate about SB was the fact that we were beaten as badly as we were. It was kind of nice to see our character not being the strongest for once.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jybril

Players here will maul you the moment you say anything bad about this game.
EW is way less enjoyable, story-wise than SHB to me, I actually put it below SB if you ignore the Ala Mhigo part, which was really badly handled.

EW suffers from terrible pacing issues that should have been told across the entire expansion. I found it hilarious when we had the Forum people in the game say the sky is about to fall, you had a NPC literally ask "How long do we have?" the response, "Soon tm" then that night you choose your lover to come to see you, the next day all hell broke loose but no one really seems like they're in a panic and the rest of Eorzea is chilling.

Pacing, pacing, pacing. I'm still sorely disappointed how Garelmeld was held and the Moon too. Hopefully the next patches redeem itself because EW is not that great to me by any means.
Not to mention Meteion who was shoehorned. Sorry, I did not care about Hermes' love doll going evil or how Zenos had fook all to do with anything. I hope he's gone for good.

I'd say from best to worst in story expansions:
SHB > HW > SB > EW > ARR.
SB was saved for me because Doma/Steppes were actually a really good arcs. To hell with Ala Mhigo lol.

---

I found the forum or the entire sharlayan plot “problematic”.
The first part is very slow pace, we try to figure out what the forum is plotting, too slow pace and too political for me, but I am sure some player like it which is fair enough.
The second part is…we spend an entire patch building the plot that forum is obsessed with the exodus, so obsessed they think it was the best and rightmove.

They encounter an issue with their vessel not a design more like material supply issue. A issue so resourceful and sending workers around the world to take specimens back home could not resolved. We, the scion may be more well connected but small came and tell them “oh you could find it XXX, they literally lying on the ground”.

Once we fix their problem, they give us their vessel to deal with the issue that will end the world. The only vessel they have for the exodus they are so obsessed with and we would not be able to take it back if we fail.

I am sure the writer could come up with a proper reasoning for them to gamble on us, but the whole shift to tone happen like a blink of an eye, and the whole “solving their problem” plot feel the writer is rush to come up with something

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Misutoraru

I found the forum or the entire sharlayan plot “problematic”.

---

I'll be frank, the entire Sharlayan plot rubbed me wrong. The Scions (Acting ambassadors for their respective nations) and the entire Forum conversation felt like an anime adult committee talking to a group of anime kids. Every question they asked had an obvious answer that would lead to The Forum wanting nothing to do with them. It was the opposite of good politics. And sadly, the entire EW storyline was full of awful politics. Like sending the two youngest members to field a head military figure of the enemy territory.

Why do people keep telling me this story is amazing? Why am I supposed to blindly accept their viewpoint and keep my opinions to myself? That's what unsettles me the most. There's nothing wrong with critiquing something you love. If anything, you should.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I haven’t seen too many people being condescending to people who like the story in my experience and i frequent posts like these fairly often. I think i’ve seen far more of a problem of people trying to write off others’ criticism purely because it’s a forum post or that their opinion is in the minority so it doesn’t matter. Tbf reddit and twitter are essentially the opposite of what you’re equating the forums to. It’s 85% pandering and game worshipping, 10% actual discussion, 5% troll posts. Criticism isn’t really common on those platforms as you’re basically immediately shit down, mass downvoted, or reported as a troll(which i’ve actually had happen and have had posts taken down because people couldn’t handle my criticism). The forums are a much more welcoming place in that regard and is a much more sage space to give opinions on the game than the other two.

---

I've seen posts praising and not praising on Reddit as well., though you do see praising on those platforms for sure (and all the the streamers I've followed seem to like it so far, but I've only watched a couple or so). And this forum isn't much better about pushing posts away that like the game. As I said, there was one post thanking the devs for a great game, it barely made two pages and was pushed far down the list by a lack of replies. Just because there isn't a downvote button doesn't mean opposing viewpoints don't get silenced here. Saying this place is more welcoming that Twitter or reddit is simply untrue.

And as I've said, if people don't like the game, that's fine. But many people here like to present their opinions as objective facts instead of subjective opinions and write off people who like the story as "being easily emotionally manipulated", which is kinda condescending.

And I suppose I find it kinda odd that so many people claim to love the game, but then criticize every single aspect of it. Again, it reminds me of WoW and would make any potential player think FFXIV is just as bad if not worse than WoW right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stachiko

Why do people keep telling me this story is amazing? Why am I supposed to blindly accept their viewpoint and keep my opinions to myself? That's what unsettles me the most. There's nothing wrong with critiquing something you love. If anything, you should.

---

Because FFXIV is the collision of 3 unholy fanboy groups...not the one or maybe two most games get.

1) The FFXIV fanboys

2) The Final Fantasy franchise fanboys

3) The actual weebs and otakus


I suspect some other reasons, but they would be...shall we say...more controversial. So we'll stick with those three.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryaz

And I suppose I find it kinda odd that so many people claim to love the game, but then criticize every single aspect of it. Again, it reminds me of WoW and would make any potential player think FFXIV is just as bad if not worse than WoW right now.

---

There's nothing wrong with criticizing something you enjoy.

A hard reality is that FFXIV's story isn't for everyone. (A poll could help prove that point). Telling every soul you meet that the story is amazing, while forgoing the fact that it's not suited for everyone, is a recipe for disaster.

WoW doesn't do this. No one will tell you to go read the lore. No one will tell you the story is amazing. Even in the Arthas days, the story was considered optional.

Shadowlands is different but I don't want to get into that. There are parts of SL I enjoy. There are parts I don't. I still love WoW and can accept parts of it are awful.

At the same time I'm learning to love FFXIV and having fun. My only wish is that others stop trying to push me into things I don't enjoy. Like crafting. I seriously cannot stand crafting in FF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryaz

I've seen posts praising and not praising on Reddit as well., though you do see praising on those platforms for sure (and all the the streamers I've followed seem to like it so far, but I've only watched a couple or so). And this forum isn't much better about pushing posts away that like the game. As I said, there was one post thanking the devs for a great game, it barely made two pages and was pushed far down the list by a lack of replies. Just because there isn't a downvote button doesn't mean opposing viewpoints don't get silenced here. Saying this place is more welcoming that Twitter or reddit is simply untrue.

And as I've said, if people don't like the game, that's fine. But many people here like to present their opinions as objective facts instead of subjective opinions and write off people who like the story as "being easily emotionally manipulated", which is kinda condescending.

And I suppose I find it kinda odd that so many people claim to love the game, but then criticize every single aspect of it. Again, it reminds me of WoW and would make any potential player think FFXIV is just as bad if not worse than WoW right now.

---

I really don’t think it’s untrue. When i give an opinion on an aspect i liked on twitter or reddit and i’m bombarded by death threats, i definitely find the forums to be a much safer and welcoming place to share my opinion. Although, this isn’t very uncommon with this community. We have the whole scottzone situation to look at of someone giving criticism and the community not being able to handle it. While personal tastes are 100% subjective, there are a lot of issues with the story that are purely objective. It objectively had pacing issues, i don’t think i’ve really seen anyone argue against that. As for the emotional manipulation thing, to be fair imo they did a LOT of it this expansion. Between the anime styled quality time with the scions to them pretending to kill then off etc etc. It’s plain and simple emotional manipulation there lol.

The story was good for me, the boring part was preparing to go to the last zone. Felt like a real chore and the BGM on repeat didn't helped.

I do feel however they really did Zodiark dirty both in how weak he was (it fits the story but still) and even the barding. Compare the Zodiark chocobo barding VS Hydaelin's. One clearly got the shortest stick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by True-to-Caesar

The story was good for me, the boring part was preparing to go to the last zone. Felt like a real chore and the BGM on repeat didn't helped.

I do feel however they really did Zodiark dirty both in how weak he was (it fits the story but still) and even the barding. Compare the Zodiark chocobo barding VS Hydaelin's. One clearly got the shortest stick.

---

Oh i mean regarding Zodiark vs Hydaelyn there’s major heavy bias lol. I think Yoshi P even went on record saying they spent a month/couple months on Hydaelyn’s design and model alone. You can tell the dev team has major bias towards her and venat and it shows a lot this expansion. Just hope he gets an ultimate or something to really shine but i’ve kind of lost hope considering both him and elidibus just consistently keep getting shafted. I think they just don’t care anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You can tell the dev team has major bias towards her and venat and it shows a lot this expansion.

---

Pretty obvious because of how squeaky clean she was in the end without even the slightest hint of moral ambiguity that she may not have been 1000% right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Oh i mean regarding Zodiark vs Hydaelyn there’s major heavy bias lol. I think Yoshi P even went on record saying they spent a month/couple months on Hydaelyn’s design and model alone. You can tell the dev team has major bias towards her and venat and it shows a lot this expansion. Just hope he gets an ultimate or something to really shine but i’ve kind of lost hope considering both him and elidibus just consistently keep getting shafted. I think they just don’t care anymore.

---

You played 5.3 right? How the heck did Elidibus get shafted?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

You played 5.3 right? How the heck did Elidibus get shafted?

---

That was my question. Plus the whole 6.x raid series has him in it. But yes, shafted.

Dudes so biased he can't even see when the characters he likes get featured lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryaz

I've seen posts praising and not praising on Reddit as well., though you do see praising on those platforms for sure (and all the the streamers I've followed seem to like it so far, but I've only watched a couple or so). And this forum isn't much better about pushing posts away that like the game. As I said, there was one post thanking the devs for a great game, it barely made two pages and was pushed far down the list by a lack of replies. Just because there isn't a downvote button doesn't mean opposing viewpoints don't get silenced here.

---

A topic fading out of a lack of interest is not the same as silencing a viewpoint. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

You played 5.3 right? How the heck did Elidibus get shafted?

---

Well let’s see. Within 3 patches 2 unsundered are offed. Elidibus got a total of about 2 patches since he wasn’t really featured in 5.1. Was used for random ff1 fanservice, had a horribly written plot tied to him(random brain dementia), only had one bgm for his fight vs every other .3 fight having at least 3 themes barring ramuh. Then in endwalker he gets a 5 minute cameo and gets killed off. For being someone who was built up since the beginning as this manipulative cunning person and we see very little of that in all actuality it was beyond a disappointment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

That was my question. Plus the whole 6.x raid series has him in it. But yes, shafted.

Dudes so biased he can't even see when the characters he likes get featured lol.

---

I'd rather you not make accusations towards me yet again, gorw up please. I know he's featured in the 6.x raids but 1.They couldnt even bother to voice him for them, and 2. Compare his time to the time that say...Emet got, or even Venat. Considrring that hes literally the heart of the other deity primal you'd think he'd have gotten more of a focus but now they just put all of his stuff into side content. Which we dont even know how involved he will be overall since the main focus of the story seems to be about lahabrea and his son.

...at this point, some gripes are being completely manufactured.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Well let’s see. Within 3 patches 2 unsundered are offed. Elidibus got a total of about 2 patches since he wasn’t really featured in 5.1. Was used for random ff1 fanservice, had a horribly written plot tied to him(random brain dementia), only had one bgm for his fight vs every other .3 fight having at least 3 themes barring ramuh. Then in endwalker he gets a 5 minute cameo and gets killed off. For being someone who was built up since the beginning as this manipulative cunning person and we see very little of that in all actuality it was beyond a disappointment.



I'd rather you not make accusations towards me yet again, gorw up please. I know he's featured in the 6.x raids but 1.They couldnt even bother to voice him for them, and 2. Compare his time to the time that say...Emet got, or even Venat. Considrring that hes literally the heart of the other deity primal you'd think he'd have gotten more of a focus but now they just put all of his stuff into side content. Which we dont even know how involved he will be overall since the main focus of the story seems to be about lahabrea and his son.

---

Elidibus was in a lot more patches than venat was, and considering hydaelyn was silent for much of the game post 3.0, I'd say elidibus had more screen time lol.

And most raids aren't voiced. Come on...

Elden wasn't voiced except a couple fights. Alexander wasn't voiced at all, nor was omega.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Elidibus was in a lot more patches than venat was, and considering hydaelyn was silent for much of the game post 3.0, I'd say elidibus had more screen time lol.

And most raids aren't voiced. Come on...

Elden wasn't voiced except a couple fights. Alexander wasn't voiced at all, nor was omega.

---

Eden was voiced for e5,e6,e8,e11,e12. It stands to reason that this would at least carry over to the new expansion, especially with the major increase in budget and player count. They even voiced his post expansion cutscene lmao. Venat at least got an entire Elpis arc, along with other things. Hydaelyn had 2.0 and some 3.0 things if you count word of the mother. Also as someone in another thread posted ill just repost.

"As often as people say we had all of ShB to learn the Ascians' side, we find out in EW that it was entirely without context. Instead of seeing what really happened in EW, we get a dramatization of events from Venat's POV. Elidibus, the person who probably would know the most since he was acting mediator, conveniently has memory issues, is disposed of before we travel to the past, and doesn't make an appearance again within the MSQ. (It remains to be seen what, if anything, we learn in Pandemonium.) I doubt we'll ever know the truth of it."

Summarizes a lot of my points exactly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBriggs304

...at this point, some gripes are being completely manufactured.

---

Appeal to the stone, also known as argumentum ad lapidem, is a logical fallacy that dismisses an argument as untrue or absurd. The dismissal is made by stating or reiterating that the argument is absurd, without providing further argumentation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Conundrum

Appeal to the stone, also known as argumentum ad lapidem, is a logical fallacy that dismisses an argument as untrue or absurd. The dismissal is made by stating or reiterating that the argument is absurd, without providing further argumentation.

---

...or simply, some gripes are indeed being manufactured now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBriggs304

...or simply, some gripes are indeed being manufactured now.

---

^^^^^ This is how you say you can't refute them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Conundrum

^^^^^ This is how you say you can't refute them

---

This is how you say people are reaching for anything to gripe about beyond the original intent of the thread.

"The mighty Zodiark, which has been build up as this mighty(evil) entity over several expansions, turns out to be nothing but filler trash for the first Endwalker trial"

How I read this : "Please don't surprise me, I just want to have a predictable story".

Endwalker had its defaults. But, for the love of God, stop complaining when people actually try to do original things. I was relieved they didn't dare to put Zordiak in place of the final boss. It would have be so expected.

Edit : oh, and : the fact that this "mighty evil" isn't the final boss doesn't mean it's trash. We fight against Hydaelyn later, but she frequently states that she is weaker. This isn't a Shonen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Merrigan

"The mighty Zodiark, which has been build up as this mighty(evil) entity over several expansions, turns out to be nothing but filler trash for the first Endwalker trial"

How I read this : "Please don't surprise me, I just want to have a predictable story".

Endwalker had its defaults. But, for the love of God, stop complaining when people actually try to do original things. I was relieved they didn't dare to put Zordiak in place of the final boss. It would have be so expected.

Edit : oh, and : the fact that this "mighty evil" isn't the final boss doesn't mean it's trash. We fight against Hydaelyn later, but she frequently states that she is weaker. This isn't a Shonen.

---

Thing is.. People seem to forget that even though Zodiark was broken out of his prison, he was still a very much sundered primal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Conundrum

Pretty obvious because of how squeaky clean she was in the end without even the slightest hint of moral ambiguity that she may not have been 1000% right.

---

I believe she stated in her final speech that what she did wasn't worthy of praise. More after everything she saw, she felt it was her only option to keep her people from completely destroying themselves. The way the story was presented, it worked out in the end, but she didn't do it because it was the right thing to do, she didn it because she felt it was the only recourse.

She took a gamble that paid off. But she wasn't a monster like some want to make her it to be. She had her reasons for doing it, much like Emet did his, but he gets praised for murdering billions to try to restore things to the way they were, while she gets treated as if she's a psychopath.

You can say the game is biased towards her, but no more than the forums are baised against her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBriggs304

This is how you say people are reaching for anything to gripe about beyond the original intent of the thread.

---

You should post on the reddit FFXIV sub, that place is nothing but gushing praise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Conundrum

You should post on the reddit FFXIV sub, that place is nothing but gushing praise.

---

How odd...I thought these forums were nothing but gushing praise and people were being "silenced" left and right...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Merrigan

Endwalker had its defaults. But, for the love of God, stop complaining when people actually try to do original things. I was relieved they didn't dare to put Zordiak in place of the final boss. It would have be so expected.

---

Nothing in Endwalker is original. It's all been done in the past by other writers. How Endwalker approached/implemented it is akin to something you'd rather not have me say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBriggs304

How odd...I thought these forums were nothing but gushing praise and people were being "silenced" left and right...

---

Don't think anyone referred to the forum in that capacity... the only mention of silencing on the forum in the last few pages is this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryaz

I've seen posts praising and not praising on Reddit as well., though you do see praising on those platforms for sure (and all the the streamers I've followed seem to like it so far, but I've only watched a couple or so). And this forum isn't much better about pushing posts away that like the game. As I said, there was one post thanking the devs for a great game, it barely made two pages and was pushed far down the list by a lack of replies. Just because there isn't a downvote button doesn't mean opposing viewpoints don't get silenced here. Saying this place is more welcoming that Twitter or reddit is simply untrue.

---

In turn, responding to:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I haven’t seen too many people being condescending to people who like the story in my experience and i frequent posts like these fairly often. I think i’ve seen far more of a problem of people trying to write off others’ criticism purely because it’s a forum post or that their opinion is in the minority so it doesn’t matter. Tbf reddit and twitter are essentially the opposite of what you’re equating the forums to. It’s 85% pandering and game worshipping, 10% actual discussion, 5% troll posts. Criticism isn’t really common on those platforms as you’re basically immediately shit down, mass downvoted, or reported as a troll(which i’ve actually had happen and have had posts taken down because people couldn’t handle my criticism). The forums are a much more welcoming place in that regard and is a much more sage space to give opinions on the game than the other two.

---

So no, not quite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stachiko

Nothing in Endwalker is original. It's all been done in the past by other writers. How Endwalker approached/implemented it is akin to something you'd rather not have me say.

---

Pretty much a good chunk of stories are like this. Does it make it bad? No, it all depends on how well it presents these ideas and honestly I think Endwalker's story hits it home with what they were going for. It has its issues sure but guess what, so did every other expansion. Yes especially everybody's beloved Heavensward and Shadowbringers stories; they all have its issues (HW's whole church is bad m'kay Ive already seen it before in numerous other rpgs, FFT being a major callback to me. Shadowbringers also had that Ahm Araeng trolley/talos segment that while I like it, was definitely a weird pace issue). But people look past those flaws due to how entertaining the journey has been.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryaz

I believe she stated in her final speech that what she did wasn't worthy of praise. More after everything she saw, she felt it was her only option to keep her people from completely destroying themselves. The way the story was presented, it worked out in the end, but she didn't do it because it was the right thing to do, she didn it because she felt it was the only recourse.

She took a gamble that paid off. But she wasn't a monster like some want to make her it to be. She had her reasons for doing it, much like Emet did his, but he gets praised for murdering billions to try to restore things to the way they were, while she gets treated as if she's a psychopath.

You can say the game is biased towards her, but no more than the forums are baised against her.

---

The game itself being biased towards her though far outweighs anyones thoughts, because what the game writes is technically canon(sadly). That’s the problem a lot of people have. Emet “murdered” lives yes, however Venat did the same thing. The game doesn’t really state emet as benevolent or a hero, however it does so for Venat. That is the difference here. I’d like to clarify i’m not exactly against the character itself as much as i am the writing. It seems like Venat did a complete 180 character wise. She was fairly likable and smart etc early on in Elpis but it’s like they completely switched gears with her at a point. All of a sudden she has no hope for her people meanwhile later on preaches on and on about not losing hope etc etc, she acts like her people didn’t suffer even though we’re shown time and time again that people were indeed suffering for various reasons. So that’s the problem. She herself states what she did isn’t worthy of praise, yet the narrative itself paints a different story. And this is just more salt in the Elidibus wound because he did the most benevolence out of anyone really considering not only did he pilot zodiark to save everyone, he ejected himself from it to try and calm everyone and mediate, and then even sacrifices himself for us to help us and was extremely vital in saving not only our world but the ancient one in the past as well. Meanwhile he isn’t even given a passing mention? Why is Venat praised as a hero and he isn’t even mentioned whatsoever lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stachiko

Nothing in Endwalker is original. It's all been done in the past by other writers. How Endwalker approached/implemented it is akin to something you'd rather not have me say.

---

Yep, just watch naruto shippuden.
Meteion is essentially Obito. Granted i dont think he wanted to kill everyone if they didnt oppose him, but Obito wanted to put everyone to sleep in a dream world so they wouldn't feel pain.