Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keikun

Its not ok if I decide NOT to dps as a healer? do I deserve a kick? tell me please =) base your answer on Yoshi statement, not on your pseudo elitist behavior.

---

You are literally trying to argue that not trying to contribute everything you can for the sake of the group effort, and people calling you out due to your preference to not do so, is elitist.

You won't get very far in the real world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

Time is a subjective argument and one that really shouldn't be expressed unless an extreme variance occurs (20min content that becomes 60min).

---

Time is definitely a thing to consider when someone is willingly choosing not to DPS. The common argument of "It's only going to take you 5 minutes more" doesn't end there. Do 12 dungeons with a healer who doesn't DPS and those 5 minutes just became 1 hour.

Do me a favor and watch this for an hour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEGlhNZuOPM

Congratulations, now you know what it feels like to have your time wasted over the course of 12 dungeons because "I'm a healer!!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kitfox

Nah, there will eventually be times when people overgear and become able to DPS.

The only way to stop the DPS meta is to take away the DPS spells, or make them so ineffective they become a trap choice.

---

Item level sync

Have gear upgrade players enough to make content slightly easier, not faceroll easier.

I sort of agree though. No matter how much they tune up party damage, I'll expect healers to be able to DPS sometimes. Right now DPS uptime (in most content) is almost all the time and that's why these debates are so rampant.

(opinion)
As a tank I will never vote to remove a healer that keeps me alive. If a healer that has not let me die is removed, I will consider leaving the run. I will in fact vote to remove any healer that consistently "lets" party members die for any reason. I will give my commendation to a healer that is going above and beyond the minimum requirement of keeping people alive, if all they do is heal and someone else is using all of their toolkit then they will get my commendation.
(/opinion)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keikun

Its not ok if I decide NOT to dps as a healer? do I deserve a kick? tell me please =) base your answer on Yoshi statement, not on your pseudo elitist behavior.

---

If the tank and/or party is in no danger of dying, why not DPS for a bit? Three well timed Holy's will actually give you and the tank a break for a bit during pulls.
Question: do you DPS during the beam struggle phase in Dun Scaith?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Question: do you DPS during the beam struggle phase in Dun Scaith?

---

Of course not, I activate /icam or /gpose and try to get nice screenshots.

The most recent time I went into Dun Scaith, I was AST. My co-healer WHM would throw up a Medica2, sheath his staff, and stand there with his arms crossed. These are the kind of players you are excusing. Why bother logging in at all if you aren't going to play?

As a healer I always dps when I can and I enjoy keep folks alive and trying to do some decent dps. I'm so glad cleric stance is going away though, the number of times I've double toggled cleric stance and then prayed the tank/players would stay alive long enough for me to be able to get a real heal off...

That said there are lots of times I cant' dps as much as I would like in expert dungeons.

Tanks doing maximal pulls and are under geared.
Tanks staying in offensive stance and not using cooldowns.
DPS being lazy and not avoid aoe/mechanics.
DPS thinking they need to be at max range from the mob and also as far away from the other dps as possible. (Note: I have found when I play AST they tend to stay in aoe heal range so they get the dps buffs).
I'm out of mana and saving the last bit for heals while I wait for my mana regen to come off cooldown or the bard to actually plan the mana song.

I have found 24 mans can be healing intensive when I'm with a bad group which seems to be well over 1/2 the time. I also don't mind solo healing 24 mans if the other dps seems to REALLY want to dps as that makes it fun.

I suppose the equivalent statement of a healer not dpsing when over gearing content might be something like a dps class only doing enough dps to match the dps they had when they first started doing the content. This would mean by the end of the expansion they would be hitting about every other GCD or perhaps just fight the first 1/2 of the encounter.. Put that way it seems kind of silly healers don't at least dps a little.

I actually think the removal of cleric stance is going to get a lot more of those healers to dps. I think many just got tired of stance dancing or just never felt confident in that 6sec window where they couldn't heal for much.

For me, I love to be hitting mah buttonz so I imagine I will be dpsing even more now that I can simply weave in damage skills with heals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Feel free to list those dungeons and explain what the mechanics are.

---

Alrighty :)

In the Lost City of Amdapor dungeon (patch 2.2) as well as Great Gubal Library there are Gremlin mobs. They put a debuff on a random player that increases their damage taken called "Misery". You remove this debuff by standing next to them and using /comfort (or a couple other emotes). There is no other way to remove this debuff and when doing large pulls (end to end) it can be rather troubling to leave on your tank. You also can not use /comfort on yourself, another person must use it on you. An often missed but rather fun mechanic that deviates from the normal hum drum just esuna it off :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fyce

People like you use the word "optionnal" as an excuse to be lazy. To be carried. To do three to four times less work than the other members of the group.
Not doing jack in your group is worthy of a kick. Get that right in your head.

If you think that doing the bare minimum is fine, then be ready to have a surprise when other people think it's not.

But keep insulting everyone of being "idiots" and "morons" if you want. I mean, that's pretty much the only thing you can do anyway.

---

In all honesty, would you really consider playing this game "work"? Seems like most people think the game is ez-mode enough as is... which doesn't exactly motivate people to try lol. Seems like people should be questioning the devs more on the meta than the way players understandably view the healer role. Optional is still optional, doesn't change the truth about it. Some do use it as an excuse, but that's no different than a DPS that is just spamming one action or a tank that doesn't properly tank since they would still fulfill their role.

That's all stuff that is generally done by intent though, as it should be clear that there are three camps involved with healers on this subject. Healers that play optimally and DPS while healing, healers that only want to heal, and healers that usually know better but are intentionally looking to be carried. Obviously the last is the biggest problem and related to my reference to bad DPS and tanks. It's the other two though that should make you question the meta. If DPS is forever going to be it, with no intent to make healing a nearly full-time necessity, I'd seriously be in favor of automating most healing. As in most non-raid related content would be able to be healed through fine with secondary effects on healer DPS actions, akin to a SCH currently being able to have the fairy most of the healing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zplinter

(opinion)
As a tank I will never vote to remove a healer that keeps me alive. If a healer that has not let me die is removed, I will consider leaving the run. I will in fact vote to remove any healer that consistently "lets" party members die for any reason. I will give my commendation to a healer that is going above and beyond the minimum requirement of keeping people alive, if all they do is heal and someone else is using all of their toolkit then they will get my commendation.
(/opinion)

---

(opinion)
A player who's only active for 20% of a dungeon should never get a commandation. That player isn't even trying.
Opening the commandation menu, clicking on that player's name, and then clicking okay takes more efforts that the total efforts this player put in the whole dungeon.
(/opinion)

I guess some people are softer when it comes to carrying others. Kudos to you, I can't stand that. Not only they wouldn't get a commandation, but I'd initiate a votekick too after asking "Hey, can you do something?" and they answer "No".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

In all honesty, would you really consider playing this game "work"?

---

Oh come on, you know what I meant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Time is definitely a thing to consider when someone is willingly choosing not to DPS. The common argument of "It's only going to take you 5 minutes more" doesn't end there. Do 12 dungeons with a healer who doesn't DPS and those 5 minutes just became 1 hour.

Do me a favor and watch this for an hour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEGlhNZuOPM

Congratulations, now you know what it feels like to have your time wasted over the course of 12 dungeons because "I'm a healer!!"

---

You're suggesting you should have static control over a variable like time? Are you delusional? Again, self accountability... why would I subject myself to intentionally waste my time through my actions if that's not what I want to do? It's sad that accountability is not understood. I literally pointed out why time is not a good argument, but you ignore it lol. I guess time is wasted when people fail to reflect.

Why for the love of all that is holy does it have to be either "never dps" or "always dps" when the correct answer (as I am convinced everyone actually knows) is "Heal when you have to, do something else productive when you don't".

Scenario A: Tanks/DPS are not taking much damage. I stand there doing nothing.
Result A: I am a bad teammate.

Scenario B: Tanks/DPS are taking a good bit of damage. I stand there casting broil.
Result B: I am a bad teammate.

Scenario C: Tanks/DPS are not taking much damage. I put up my dots and use broil for a filler.
Result C: I am a good teammate.

Scenario D: Tanks/DPS are taking a good bit of damage. I heal them all up.
Result D: I am a good teammate.

Also, to people claiming it is only bad dps that say healers should dps.

My main: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/8484881/
Alt 1: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cter/13295338/
Alt 2: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cter/17948241/
Second account: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cter/15185361/

So no, it is not only bad dps that think this way... it is also people with a good bit of experience as healers.

This argument is stupid. Healers don't need to DPS. Yoshi-p even tells us the game does not factor in Healer DPS to clear content. If you want to help the teams damage between casts good for you. Is it needed... well no, and it certainly shouldn't be demanded by someone or expected. I mean they removed cleric stance... you know the thing healers were switching to in a dungeon to do damage only to be unable to heal effectively and someone may or may not die as a result.

They even made healers special and put ALL their potential damage tied to their main stat. Yay they can now easily balance your damage and make it possible to solo story content while keeping you Exactly where they want you for group content. To make things even more fun they created fun mechancis that require you to spend most of your time healing to be able to utilize them... Ya... that director TOTALLY isn't letting you know early on that you MIGHT want to heal.

I get it, you want to say... with down time they should contribute, but its circumstantial and entirely their choice. DPS don't have to ignore their positionals and stand in AoE's for regular content, but they do. Just like for the content healers don't have to DPS, How desperate are we for DPS that our tanks and healers need to go in just to make our clear viable... I main a DPS and though I don't have as much experience as others at raiding, I can definitely clear a dungeon, and the DPS a healer does for the TOTAL dungeon might save us... what... 4 minutes optimally?(Everyone Overgeared and just perfect synergy) maybe more if the dungeon is mostly trash and you can spam AoEs.

Stop worrying about other people, if they succeed in their primary role, be it tank, DPS, or Healing then the dungeons should be smooth, if you need to milk every ounce of DPS possible... you should get gear... not yell at the guy healing you while you stand in AoE's or rezzing you when you fail a mechanic. Plenty of healers love to fill their time with hitting the enemy, but understand making sure you can is their primary job. Everything else is optional extra and many love to help out, but don't expect EVERYONE to do that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elim

I enjoy being considered superior. People use it as an insult but they're still admitting to my superiority so it's all good in my book!

---

You clearly consider yourself to be superior, that is not the same as others considering you to be superior in any way. However being considered to be superior isn't being considered to be elitist, it's being considered to be elite. Elitists are not among the Elite, they simply believe that they are. The fact that you think being called an elitist makes you a member of an elite group demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of the terms, as well as the extent of your egotism.

I mostly DPS as a healer if I believe the tank will be fine on HP. Some people might not be able to healer dps because they're either not 100% comfortable with stance dancing yet or a tank isn't properly geared and his hp is going down too fast even if using proper cooldowns (I've seen stuff like that before). I mostly get a bit irritated when people don't focus enough on mechanics. Sure healer DPS can help a lot, but it's not that important if too many people die from not enough heals or none at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elim

I enjoy being considered superior. People use it as an insult but they're still admitting to my superiority so it's all good in my book!

---

True elite do not need to tell people that they are as such to assert their superiority.

Power is given, not forced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Time is definitely a thing to consider when someone is willingly choosing not to DPS. The common argument of "It's only going to take you 5 minutes more" doesn't end there. Do 12 dungeons with a healer who doesn't DPS and those 5 minutes just became 1 hour.

Do me a favor and watch this for an hour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEGlhNZuOPM

Congratulations, now you know what it feels like to have your time wasted over the course of 12 dungeons because "I'm a healer!!"

---

That vid is super cute though :3

We could always take this to the logical conclusion that if healers only have to heal then a tank only has to tank and running into mobs and just spamming flash is acceptable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elim

I enjoy being considered superior. People use it as an insult but they're still admitting to my superiority so it's all good in my book!

---

And it only took a single statement just proved one's inferiority to the rest of the playerbase. Bravo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bdyer

We could always take this to the logical conclusion that if healers only have to heal then a tank only has to tank and running into mobs and just spamming flash is acceptable.

---

Hmmm, well see, tanks have only 2 real parts to their role to ensure 100%. Hold agro and make sure you don't get insta gibbed (ie. dodge junk and pop cd's). Anything else is extra. That being said, we all know spamming flash isn't going to hold a thing lol. So no that wouldn't be acceptable since they would fail their primary purpose.

Interview with Yoshi:

"When looking at the data, even though many players have healers at the appropriate job level, they won't be participating as healer. When considering the reasons for this, it seems that there are two main ones - it's too much work, and being asked to DPS."

Feel free to participate in instanced dungeons as a healer

The changes to healers seem to be more of an evolution. The changes seem to be smaller (in a good way), and I think they are getting a lot of beneficial adjustments in the form of getting rid of accuracy, changing the specification of Cleric Stance, and replacing offensive spells with higher tier ones. Was this the intent for these adjustments?

Yoshida: I recognized that folks who used healers in raids were already used to the risk involved with stance switching using Cleric Stance between DPSing and healing. I expected to perhaps see some feedback from those folks, but I'll address that later.

I understand.

Yoshida: By now, I think a feeling has developed that healers have to participate in DPSing in instanced dungeons. Even if it's just a silent pressure, it is there. Because of that feeling, there were some players who may have felt anxious about joining as a healer. For someone like me who isn't focused about clear time, I'm fine as long as we can clear it. And I'll try to take things more slowly if I see someone who might be new. However, it's been getting more and more difficult for healers, which I'm sorry about. On my personal account, I play all the roles, and I like to have the feeling that I can play through instanced dungeons on my favorite role.

Since things are more serious in raiding, on the other hand, you'll definitely want to DPS for the first clear. As item levels go up and you're after repeat clears, the roles may shift. (laughs)

I see.

Yoshida: That said, sometimes when I'm participating in instanced dungeons, I'll queue as tank or healer because the matchmaking is so fast, but in the case of healer, although attacking itself isn't hard, I feel that the stance switching narrows the field of players who are interested in healing. When looking at the data, even though many players have healers at the appropriate job level, they won't be participating as healer. When considering the reasons for this, it seems that there are two main ones - it's too much work, and being asked to DPS.

There are many who feel that way.

Yoshida: So we decided to calculate healers' attack magic potency based on MND. Since you no longer need Cleric Stance, you can Holy whenever you feel like it. After stunning the enemies with Swiftcast Holy, you can then catch up with heals. With this increased level of comfort, the number of people participating in instanced dungeons as healer will definitely go up.

It certainly looks like that.

Yoshida: We consider the leveling activities like instanced dungeons and end-game content like raids separately. We'd like people to be able to use healers in a more casual sense in instanced dungeons. With that in mind, we made a point of simplifying the role. On the other hand, you're really asked to push the role in end-game content. And in reality, it's likely that you'll need to look at elements besides just healing in those situations depending on your job composition and the skill level of the members. I understand very well that there are players who enjoy and have been doing well with the stance switching to attack and immediately back to healing. However, rather than changing stances back and forth, now you can use that spare moment for other role actions you might have set. I'm not saying you'll be doing a lot more things than before with the new role actions, but that will definitely be an area where players can improve.

Using Rescue to draw an ally to your location fits that description, doesn't it?

Yoshida: In the caster role actions, one is included that allows you to transfer your MP to other party members. If your party's healer isn't good with MP management, you can give them MP from a black mage, who has an unlimited pool of MP, during phases of a battle where you can't attack. Because of that, you have some leeway with MP, and you might decide to change your role actions up on healer so you remove one with an MP recovery effect and change it to something else for the situation. Also, if you have a margin with MP you can use it for further DPS. We've also made adjustments to the MP consumption for each action to because all this talk about making it easier to DPS doesn't mean anything if you don't have the MP necessary.

So you should feel comfortable throwing out one attack here and there.

Yoshida: Yeah. You'll save a lot of time and effort without turning Cleric Stance on and off. With the addition of role actions, you'll have a number of other actions you can take instead of the stance switch, so that will be one place to demonstrate your skills.

I see.

Yoshida: It's likely to be misunderstood, but making things simple and clear is not the same as making them easier. Because things will be simpler and more easily understood, differences in skills and setups will start to appear, so a healer looking to get more active in things besides just recovering HP will really shine in those areas.

While playing, I felt like it would be important not just for healers, but also for other roles to swap role actions depending on the content. Because of that, I felt that it might be useful to have a preset function to save role actions so that you can swap more easily - do you have any plans to implement that?

Yoshida: We'll wait and see on that. I really don't know how long it would take without getting into it. With the new raid strategies, etc., that pop up, I'll wait to see the feedback.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/13...ew-Translation

I think Yoshida should have say he have no expectations for new players healer or player in new contents to DPS.
However, when you are used to this content, the only way to evolve, to progress is to master the healing part and the dps part.
You can't let a part of your tool kit unused.
It's understandable at the beginning, but not after.
The learning part never end, and constantly improving is a part of the process of the player.
If you dont want to progress, then you will never reach the top and share the vision of the others.

Otherwise some tips : more you dps, and less you have to heal because the mobs/boss die faster.
+ You could skip some (annoying) mecanics.
It's win-win.

Yoshi P on Healer and Healer DPS (Source https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/13...ew-Translation)

The changes to healers seem to be more of an evolution. The changes seem to be smaller (in a good way), and I think they are getting a lot of beneficial adjustments in the form of getting rid of accuracy, changing the specification of Cleric Stance, and replacing offensive spells with higher tier ones. Was this the intent for these adjustments?

Yoshida: I recognized that folks who used healers in raids were already used to the risk involved with stance switching using Cleric Stance between DPSing and healing. I expected to perhaps see some feedback from those folks, but I'll address that later.

I understand.

Yoshida: By now, I think a feeling has developed that healers have to participate in DPSing in instanced dungeons. Even if it's just a silent pressure, it is there. Because of that feeling, there were some players who may have felt anxious about joining as a healer. For someone like me who isn't focused about clear time, I'm fine as long as we can clear it. And I'll try to take things more slowly if I see someone who might be new. However, it's been getting more and more difficult for healers, which I'm sorry about. On my personal account, I play all the roles, and I like to have the feeling that I can play through instanced dungeons on my favorite role.

Since things are more serious in raiding, on the other hand, you'll definitely want to DPS for the first clear. As item levels go up and you're after repeat clears, the roles may shift. (laughs)

I see.

Yoshida: That said, sometimes when I'm participating in instanced dungeons, I'll queue as tank or healer because the matchmaking is so fast, but in the case of healer, although attacking itself isn't hard, I feel that the stance switching narrows the field of players who are interested in healing. When looking at the data, even though many players have healers at the appropriate job level, they won't be participating as healer. When considering the reasons for this, it seems that there are two main ones - it's too much work, and being asked to DPS.

There are many who feel that way.

Yoshida: So we decided to calculate healers' attack magic potency based on MND. Since you no longer need Cleric Stance, you can Holy whenever you feel like it. After stunning the enemies with Swiftcast Holy, you can then catch up with heals. With this increased level of comfort, the number of people participating in instanced dungeons as healer will definitely go up.

It certainly looks like that.

Yoshida: We consider the leveling activities like instanced dungeons and end-game content like raids separately. We'd like people to be able to use healers in a more casual sense in instanced dungeons. With that in mind, we made a point of simplifying the role. On the other hand, you're really asked to push the role in end-game content. And in reality, it's likely that you'll need to look at elements besides just healing in those situations depending on your job composition and the skill level of the members. I understand very well that there are players who enjoy and have been doing well with the stance switching to attack and immediately back to healing. However, rather than changing stances back and forth, now you can use that spare moment for other role actions you might have set. I'm not saying you'll be doing a lot more things than before with the new role actions, but that will definitely be an area where players can improve.

Using Rescue to draw an ally to your location fits that description, doesn't it?

Yoshida: In the caster role actions, one is included that allows you to transfer your MP to other party members. If your party's healer isn't good with MP management, you can give them MP from a black mage, who has an unlimited pool of MP, during phases of a battle where you can't attack. Because of that, you have some leeway with MP, and you might decide to change your role actions up on healer so you remove one with an MP recovery effect and change it to something else for the situation. Also, if you have a margin with MP you can use it for further DPS. We've also made adjustments to the MP consumption for each action to because all this talk about making it easier to DPS doesn't mean anything if you don't have the MP necessary.

So you should feel comfortable throwing out one attack here and there.

Yoshida: Yeah. You'll save a lot of time and effort without turning Cleric Stance on and off. With the addition of role actions, you'll have a number of other actions you can take instead of the stance switch, so that will be one place to demonstrate your skills.

I see.

Yoshida: It's likely to be misunderstood, but making things simple and clear is not the same as making them easier. Because things will be simpler and more easily understood, differences in skills and setups will start to appear, so a healer looking to get more active in things besides just recovering HP will really shine in those areas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

You clearly consider yourself to be superior, that is not the same as others considering you to be superior in any way. However being considered to be superior isn't being considered to be elitist, it's being considered to be elite. Elitists are not among the Elite, they simply believe that they are. The fact that you think being called an elitist makes you a member of an elite group demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of the terms, as well as the extent of your egotism.

---

It doesn't say anywhere in the linked definition that elitists are not among the elite. Doesn't say that they're either. Also the meaning of words change throughout time, and on the interweb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

True elite do not need to tell people that they are as such to assert their superiority.

Power is given, not forced.

---

In your opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khaoticsuccubus

Hmmm, well see, tanks have only 2 real parts to their role to ensure 100%. Hold agro and make sure you don't get insta gibbed (ie. dodge junk and pop cd's). Anything else is extra. That being said, we all know spamming flash isn't going to hold a thing lol. So no that wouldn't be acceptable since they would fail their primary purpose.

---

Shield oath+ flash + oath mastery /.... you will hold aggro

You're still getting kicked if you don't DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khaoticsuccubus

Hmmm, well see, tanks have only 2 real parts to their role to ensure 100%. Hold agro and make sure you don't get insta gibbed (ie. dodge junk and pop cd's). Anything else is extra. That being said, we all know spamming flash isn't going to hold a thing lol. So no that wouldn't be acceptable since they would fail their primary purpose.

---

I beg to differ. With Shield Oath up, if you burned all your MP on Flash, you will easily hold hate on every mob in that trash pack. If it's super long, Riot Blade for more MP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anzaman

snip

---

Oo Oo, I'm a statistic! I fall under the it's too much work category lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonseth07

I beg to differ. With Shield Oath up, if you burned all your MP on Flash, you will easily hold hate on every mob in that trash pack. If it's super long, Riot Blade for more MP.

---

Ahaha, tell that to the triple flare BLM lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elim

It doesn't say anywhere in the linked definition that elitists are not among the elite. Doesn't say that they're either. Also the meaning of words change throughout time, and on the interweb.

---

There's literally no point in discussing this with a person who ignores reality, and leans on their own egotistical, and flawed understanding of basic definitions of words in the English language. At this point you're just trolling and I am ceasing to feed an egotistical, self-confessed elitist troll.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elim

In your opinion.

---

I'm looking up your records, and curiously enough, you don't seem to have any.

You don't really have a leg to stand on with the superiority argument. Not only do you have to tell people that you're supposedly superior, you don't have anything to show for it.

(EDIT: Although looking even deeper, it appears you're probably a PS4 player, which would explain the apparent lack of records despite your gear indicating you'e cleared A12S. Congratulations, I suppose. Although it only shows that we're on even footing.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

You're suggesting you should have static control over a variable like time? Are you delusional? Again, self accountability... why would I subject myself to intentionally waste my time through my actions if that's not what I want to do? It's sad that accountability is not understood. I literally pointed out why time is not a good argument, but you ignore it lol. I guess time is wasted when people fail to reflect.

---

Except that kicking them out of a DF party is an option, so DF is still a fine choice.

I wonder what are WHM supposed to do.

They get better heals (although gated by stupid RNG). So they can heal more.
They get better DPS tools
They don't get supportive tools.

I seriously think Yoshida have serious issues with healers and he should let other people try to balance them. Because he completely misses the point with all the changes and then his statements are contradictory with the changes he puts in game.

4.0 cleric stance is removed
5.0 healer dps skills are locked out in DF content, due to incessant whining

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anzaman

Interview with Yoshi:

"When looking at the data, even though many players have healers at the appropriate job level, they won't be participating as healer. When considering the reasons for this, it seems that there are two main ones - it's too much work, and being asked to DPS."

Feel free to participate in instanced dungeons as a healer

The changes to healers seem to be more of an evolution. The changes seem to be smaller (in a good way), and I think they are getting a lot of beneficial adjustments in the form of getting rid of accuracy, changing the specification of Cleric Stance, and replacing offensive spells with higher tier ones. Was this the intent for these adjustments?

Yoshida: I recognized that folks who used healers in raids were already used to the risk involved with stance switching using Cleric Stance between DPSing and healing. I expected to perhaps see some feedback from those folks, but I'll address that later.

I understand.

Yoshida: By now, I think a feeling has developed that healers have to participate in DPSing in instanced dungeons. Even if it's just a silent pressure, it is there. Because of that feeling, there were some players who may have felt anxious about joining as a healer. For someone like me who isn't focused about clear time, I'm fine as long as we can clear it. And I'll try to take things more slowly if I see someone who might be new. However, it's been getting more and more difficult for healers, which I'm sorry about. On my personal account, I play all the roles, and I like to have the feeling that I can play through instanced dungeons on my favorite role.

Since things are more serious in raiding, on the other hand, you'll definitely want to DPS for the first clear. As item levels go up and you're after repeat clears, the roles may shift. (laughs)

I see.

Yoshida: That said, sometimes when I'm participating in instanced dungeons, I'll queue as tank or healer because the matchmaking is so fast, but in the case of healer, although attacking itself isn't hard, I feel that the stance switching narrows the field of players who are interested in healing. When looking at the data, even though many players have healers at the appropriate job level, they won't be participating as healer. When considering the reasons for this, it seems that there are two main ones - it's too much work, and being asked to DPS.

There are many who feel that way.

Yoshida: So we decided to calculate healers' attack magic potency based on MND. Since you no longer need Cleric Stance, you can Holy whenever you feel like it. After stunning the enemies with Swiftcast Holy, you can then catch up with heals. With this increased level of comfort, the number of people participating in instanced dungeons as healer will definitely go up.

It certainly looks like that.

Yoshida: We consider the leveling activities like instanced dungeons and end-game content like raids separately. We'd like people to be able to use healers in a more casual sense in instanced dungeons. With that in mind, we made a point of simplifying the role. On the other hand, you're really asked to push the role in end-game content. And in reality, it's likely that you'll need to look at elements besides just healing in those situations depending on your job composition and the skill level of the members. I understand very well that there are players who enjoy and have been doing well with the stance switching to attack and immediately back to healing. However, rather than changing stances back and forth, now you can use that spare moment for other role actions you might have set. I'm not saying you'll be doing a lot more things than before with the new role actions, but that will definitely be an area where players can improve.

Using Rescue to draw an ally to your location fits that description, doesn't it?

Yoshida: In the caster role actions, one is included that allows you to transfer your MP to other party members. If your party's healer isn't good with MP management, you can give them MP from a black mage, who has an unlimited pool of MP, during phases of a battle where you can't attack. Because of that, you have some leeway with MP, and you might decide to change your role actions up on healer so you remove one with an MP recovery effect and change it to something else for the situation. Also, if you have a margin with MP you can use it for further DPS. We've also made adjustments to the MP consumption for each action to because all this talk about making it easier to DPS doesn't mean anything if you don't have the MP necessary.

So you should feel comfortable throwing out one attack here and there.

Yoshida: Yeah. You'll save a lot of time and effort without turning Cleric Stance on and off. With the addition of role actions, you'll have a number of other actions you can take instead of the stance switch, so that will be one place to demonstrate your skills.

I see.

Yoshida: It's likely to be misunderstood, but making things simple and clear is not the same as making them easier. Because things will be simpler and more easily understood, differences in skills and setups will start to appear, so a healer looking to get more active in things besides just recovering HP will really shine in those areas.

While playing, I felt like it would be important not just for healers, but also for other roles to swap role actions depending on the content. Because of that, I felt that it might be useful to have a preset function to save role actions so that you can swap more easily - do you have any plans to implement that?

Yoshida: We'll wait and see on that. I really don't know how long it would take without getting into it. With the new raid strategies, etc., that pop up, I'll wait to see the feedback.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/13...ew-Translation

---

I love how you cherry picked that sentence, when literally the next one he's saying "yeah, Holy those mobs and catch up with healing later, it's not hard".

At least you had the decency to post the whole interview.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anzaman

Interview with Yoshi:

"When looking at the data, even though many players have healers at the appropriate job level, they won't be participating as healer. When considering thereasons for this, it seems that there are two main ones - it's too much work, and being asked to DPS."

Feel free to participate in instanced dungeons as a healer

The changes to healers seem to be more of an evolution. The changes seem to be smaller (in a good way), and I think they are getting a lot of beneficial adjustments in the form of getting rid of accuracy, changing the specification of Cleric Stance, and replacing offensive spells with higher tier ones. Was this the intent for these adjustments?

Yoshida: I recognized that folks who used healers in raids were already used to the risk involved with stance switching using Cleric Stance between DPSing and healing. I expected to perhaps see some feedback from those folks, but I'll address that later.

I understand.

Yoshida: By now, I think a feeling has developed that healers have to participate in DPSing in instanced dungeons. Even if it's just a silent pressure, it is there. Because of that feeling, there were some players who may have felt anxious about joining as a healer. For someone like me who isn't focused about clear time, I'm fine as long as we can clear it. And I'll try to take things more slowly if I see someone who might be new. However, it's been getting more and more difficult for healers, which I'm sorry about. On my personal account, I play all the roles, and I like to have the feeling that I can play through instanced dungeons on my favorite role.

Since things are more serious in raiding, on the other hand, you'll definitely want to DPS for the first clear. As item levels go up and you're after repeat clears, the roles may shift. (laughs)

I see.

Yoshida: That said, sometimes when I'm participating in instanced dungeons, I'll queue as tank or healer because the matchmaking is so fast, but in the case of healer, although attacking itself isn't hard, I feel that the stance switching narrows the field of players who are interested in healing. When looking at the data, even though many players have healers at the appropriate job level, they won't be participating as healer. When considering the reasons for this, it seems that there are two main ones - it's too much work, and being asked to DPS.

There are many who feel that way.

Yoshida: So we decided to calculate healers' attack magic potency based on MND. Since you no longer need Cleric Stance, you can Holy whenever you feel like it. After stunning the enemies with Swiftcast Holy, you can then catch up with heals. With this increased level of comfort, the number of people participating in instanced dungeons as healer will definitely go up.

It certainly looks like that.

Yoshida: We consider the leveling activities like instanced dungeons and end-game content like raids separately. We'd like people to be able to use healers in a more casual sense in instanced dungeons. With that in mind, we made a point of simplifying the role. On the other hand, you're really asked to push the role in end-game content. And in reality, it's likely that you'll need to look at elements besides just healing in those situations depending on your job composition and the skill level of the members. I understand very well that there are players who enjoy and have been doing well with the stance switching to attack and immediately back to healing. However, rather than changing stances back and forth, now you can use that spare moment for other role actions you might have set. I'm not saying you'll be doing a lot more things than before with the new role actions, but that will definitely be an area where players can improve.

Using Rescue to draw an ally to your location fits that description, doesn't it?

Yoshida: In the caster role actions, one is included that allows you to transfer your MP to other party members. If your party's healer isn't good with MP management, you can give them MP from a black mage, who has an unlimited pool of MP, during phases of a battle where you can't attack. Because of that, you have some leeway with MP, and you might decide to change your role actions up on healer so you remove one with an MP recovery effect and change it to something else for the situation. Also, if you have a margin with MP you can use it for further DPS. We've also made adjustments to the MP consumption for each action to because all this talk about making it easier to DPS doesn't mean anything if you don't have the MP necessary.

So you should feel comfortable throwing out one attack here and there.

Yoshida: Yeah. You'll save a lot of time and effort without turning Cleric Stance on and off. With the addition of role actions, you'll have a number of other actions you can take instead of the stance switch, so that will be one place to demonstrate your skills.

I see.

Yoshida: It's likely to be misunderstood, but making things simple and clear is not the same as making them easier. Because things will be simpler and more easily understood, differences in skills and setups will start to appear, so a healer looking to get more active in things besides just recovering HP will really shine in those areas.

While playing, I felt like it would be important not just for healers, but also for other roles to swap role actions depending on the content. Because of that, I felt that it might be useful to have a preset function to save role actions so that you can swap more easily - do you have any plans to implement that?

Yoshida: We'll wait and see on that. I really don't know how long it would take without getting into it. With the new raid strategies, etc., that pop up, I'll wait to see the feedback.

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/13...ew-Translation

---

How is this data obtained? Where is the reason "I do not want to play healer in this game because it is boring"?
What about "I hate playing PLD at low levels because I have a whole 2 buttons to push and sometimes a 3rd?"

I do not see the pressure of being a healer when it is 1APM to be a pure healer, where in the hell is the pressure in doing that?

From my friend:
"Sometimes I want to play DPS, but I have to be healer all the time because people are simply bad at it, so runs are slower even though I DPS well. It becomes an endless debate sometimes of "Will today be faster if I go healer and hope I get DPS that know what they are doing? or go DPS and hope I do not get a healer that spams healing on 90%+ hp all the time? Today I guessed right, I went to trial, had to carry, had to healer LB3, while in expert I picked healer and got 2 dps that knew how DPS and a tank that knew how stance properly, well.... most of the time... ate a bit too much mp on high damage runs, could had cooldowns for the scorp adds. Oh I forgot leveling, I picked wrong there, went dps and got a useless healer.

However I was on the verge of quitting back at 50 cap because right when I got at 50, people made pulls bigger then my gear allowed to heal. I am glad the gear gap is not big today like it was in late 2.0 What a joke letting healers join DFs with higher HP then the tank because gear inflation was not regulated. Now that happens when people ileveldodge. "

Healing in this game is not hard, there is no pressure in healing. You can even afk like dungeons below 30? and have Eos do all the work as you /follow and afk. I do not see where he is coming from, or people putting pressure on others that DPS from a healer has no meaning. Does yoshi-p even understand what he says is enabling harassment of people that do DPs because "healers heal only"?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81#post4179481

I want to see yoshi-p's reaction to stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBgM...youtu.be&t=557
and how healing in this game is 1 APM while expecting DPS/tank be at 60+, what a joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Time is definitely a thing to consider when someone is willingly choosing not to DPS. The common argument of "It's only going to take you 5 minutes more" doesn't end there. Do 12 dungeons with a healer who doesn't DPS and those 5 minutes just became 1 hour.

Do me a favor and watch this for an hour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEGlhNZuOPM

Congratulations, now you know what it feels like to have your time wasted over the course of 12 dungeons because "I'm a healer!!"

---

lol

It's disrespectful to your party to not do your best. Do you want me to only spam overpower/flash and nothing else since technically my job is to hold aggro? Not everyone has huge amounts of time to play either so that sort of behavior just makes everything takes twice as long.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

I wonder what are WHM supposed to do.

They get better heals (although gated by stupid RNG). So they can heal more.
They get better DPS tools
They don't get supportive tools.

I seriously think Yoshida have serious issues with healers and he should let other people try to balance them. Because he completely misses the point with all the changes and then his statements are contradictory with the changes he puts in game.

---

If you think Yoshida "balances" anything himself, you have absolutely no idea of how game development works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Except that kicking them out of a DF party is an option, so DF is still a fine choice.

---

Sounds more like harassment, Yoshi said as you get to raids do more, but said healing is fine for regular content. Which means... kicking them for healing is just going to be you picking on a player for no reason but self satisfaction. I am sure GM's are going to take your side "yea, they totally should have been DPSing that entire time *thumbs up*" Have fun with kicking healers, I am sure after you kick them, you will just walk in and kill that boss because there are plenty of healers in the part.... oh crap... sure DPS are like spare tires but... well healing kinda holds everything together, and if your clearing stuff most people won't go.. ya lets suddenly have to wait longer then the dungeon would have taken to clear with a just healing healer, to MAYBE get a better one. Just my opinion of course but it seems flawed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bdyer

Shield oath+ flash + oath mastery /.... you will hold aggro

---

Actually had to go look up what the heck oath mastery was lol.

Oath mastery is a trait added in SB. As SB is not out yet I have no idea how it would effect threat one way or the other but.... from what I can tell it just gives you the oath gauge... how would that help you hold threat by only spamming flash at all?