Viera as the next new race~ Show your support

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Originally Posted by UsagiAndCrepes

Thread trolls are just like anime tsundere stereotypes, they keep bumping threads for content they don't want.

"Please go away thread, please go away, please stop replying... bump! oops, tee hee hee"

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Different opinion = trolling? Alrighty.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Different opinion = trolling? Alrighty.

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No, but there is a clear and marked difference between stating a dissenting opinion from that of the thread's intent, and then continuing to state the opinion so that the thread remains on the first page, obtains more views, and continues to garner more posts of assent and dissent, sparking arguments, debates, and so forth. In short, there is a difference between having a different opinion, and trolling to watch people argue because it amuses you.

Most of Nestama's posts here are nothing new. He either claims to be the victim or tries to cover his ears and say "no no no no, I'm not here to argue, you're all wrong"
If you notice, a lot of the people that disprove of viera like to play the victim all the time. It's a tactic to garner sympathy. And it always happens after they lost an argument or tried to attack you in the first place. Specially the latter.

On that note, which class would you like to see Viera bring in FFXIV when/if they're added? For me I would say any class related to nature like Geomancer, elementalist, or green mage. Interesting is that in FFXII they're described as mastering all types of weapons so they could bring any class with them unlike how au ra is tied to the far east so they're limited to ninja/samurai. Of course this is assuming they will do what they always do (they always stick to the lore of where/how those races appeared in other games). Mithra/miqo'te is still from the desert, galka/roegadyns from the north, and stuff like that related to the traits like intelligence/liking alchemy (tarutaru/lala), etc. There's like 0 examples of a race that appeared in multiple games where their background/origins/and what they do change much or at all. Cid for example never changes, even Odin. Just want to create a mountain of evidence so that people like Nestama can't argue. But they'll just cover their ears and scream around the room.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

On that note, which class would you like to see Viera bring in FFXIV when/if they're added?

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I think it'd be cool if dancer came out with viera. It seems like a popular class a lot of people would enjoy.

Dancer, Blue Mage, Beastmaster, etc... all good options for Viera to bring in.

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Originally Posted by Senn

This is why I said I would like another race poll with viera having its own category instead of falling into mammalian beast-man. For clarity's sake, I feel a new poll should be done. However, I do believe Yoshi P's assumption is correct; people voted for a mammalian beast-man race mostly because viera was used as its example.

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Yeah, I wouldn't mind that. They could also include others such as racial updates and more clans of what we have. Then again perhaps racial updates should just be expected slowly over time, could work either way.

A new poll to gauge any changes in the preferences of the playerbase would be better than using 5 year old information, and would allow for a more concrete selection of choices like "New Mammalian (human anthro {similar to Viera and Miqote}), Viera {as an explicit choice}, Expanded options for existing races/clans, more clans for existing races" etc. That way you can differentiate the impulse readers who skipped the "like" before Viera and specifically want that from those who want a mammalian new race but are more generally drawn towards that and may prefer something new and unique rather than rehashing an existing race.

Basically, a redone poll can separate explicit desires for existing races being brought in from those desiring a new unique race from the various classifications that were given in the 2011/2012 poll.

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Originally Posted by Senn

This is why I said I would like another race poll with viera having its own category instead of falling into mammalian beast-man. For clarity's sake, I feel a new poll should be done. However, I do believe Yoshi P's assumption is correct; people voted for a mammalian beast-man race mostly because viera was used as its example.

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Except they won't/shouldn't make a poll on future races while they have no plans to make a new race, and Viera shouldn't even be mentioned because people will go "uh ma gawd, Viera is its own option, uh Viera confirmed" when the devs aren't even thinking about that. Adding "such as Viera from XII" on the previous poll likely skewed the results, as it was the only entry that had any grounding or basis for what the race could be (plus fan service and referencing).

Polls and structured feedback is something that should be done anyway IMO, give an ingame incentive to filling out feedback polls, so I support that much of what you are saying, they just need to be careful how they word the questions.

Edit: I should expand by saying that it is perfectly ok if they laid the question like this, but not lump Viera in with vague race ideas:

Which race from previous final fantasies would you like to see as a playable race in FFXIV:
- Dwarf (FFIV)
- Burmecian (FFIX)
- Viera (FFXII)
- Ronso (FFX)
- Lunarian (FFIV)
- Guado (FFX)

though there are far better options than this I just can't think off the top of my head (im never getting my ivalice moogle, so I didn't put that as an option).

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Originally Posted by Bloody

A new poll to gauge any changes in the preferences of the playerbase would be better than using 5 year old information

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Agreed, particularly as the playerbase has grown and changed in the course of 5 years. 5 Years ago I imagine FFXIV has a playerbase made up of hardcore Final Fantasy fans, given how most MMO players these days are wary of which game to try, and how 1.0 failed spectacularly. Its very rare for an MMO to bounce back from a failed launch the way FFXIV has, and only feels possible with a strong dedicated core of players, like the Final Fantasy crowd. As the years have gone by, FFXIV has gained more players from other games, particularly WoW which has begun to circle the drain. With a more diverse playerbase, interest in new races is likely to be more varied. While that core of Final Fantasy fans would probably still want Viera, they might not be the majority anymore.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

Most of Nestama's posts here are nothing new.

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I won't deny that my posts are nothing new, since I've repeated arguments so many times...
Were Viera added, they would look nothing like their XII counterparts, nor would they look exactly the same as the concept art shown. They will have all but one unique thing taken away from them (claws, rabbit feet and even the tail), leaving only rabbit ears and new faces and a body very similar to what is already in the game. Why waste time on (not) redesigning head gear to make sense of the rabbit ears when SE could just expand on the current races? Third clan of Elezen with similar physique to Viera can work (especially as Viera lore is pretty much elf lore in most ways), or a taller and longer eared clan of Miqo'te (but without tails).

I'll also have you know that I have stated I'll drop all arguments against the addition to Viera the moment SE announces something like Beastmen glamour (and I mean being able to "be" a Beastman. Not something like the Vanu/Zundu and Vath gear). You can literally quote me on that if you go back some many pages. Page 35, to make it easier for you.

I think the only way I would accept a Viera race is a very personal opinion and that would be to have them be the opposite of the au'ra, with females being tall, strong and athletic(like femroes) while males would be smaller and cuter(smaller than miqo'te males).

Some kind of reverse dimorphism would be refreshing and very appealing to me.

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Originally Posted by Hito-Shura

I think the only way I would accept a Viera race is a very personal opinion and that would be to have them be the opposite of the au'ra, with females being tall, strong and athletic(like femroes) while males would be smaller and cuter(smaller than miqo'te males).

Some kind of reverse dimorphism would be refreshing and very appealing to me.

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Agreed. Would prefer much the same myself. Take the female Au Ra model, take away the scales, the tail, the horns, the breasts, modify the faces, add some bunny ears, done.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Dancer, Blue Mage, Beastmaster, etc... all good options for Viera to bring in.

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Blue mage and beastmaster would seem like cool jobs that could be introduced with viera, too.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Dancer, Blue Mage, Beastmaster, etc... all good options for Viera to bring in.

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Offer me a blue mage class and suddenly, I care about viera.

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Originally Posted by Hito-Shura

I think the only way I would accept a Viera race is a very personal opinion and that would be to have them be the opposite of the au'ra, with females being tall, strong and athletic(like femroes) while males would be smaller and cuter(smaller than miqo'te males).

Some kind of reverse dimorphism would be refreshing and very appealing to me.

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I'd be down for that.

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Originally Posted by Hito-Shura

I think the only way I would accept a Viera race is a very personal opinion and that would be to have them be the opposite of the au'ra, with females being tall, strong and athletic(like femroes) while males would be smaller and cuter(smaller than miqo'te males).

Some kind of reverse dimorphism would be refreshing and very appealing to me.

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Wouldn't that really strange for mammal though?

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Wouldn't that really strange for mammal though?

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Hyenas are the immediate example. But also blue and killer whales, hamsters, elephants, mole rats, meerkats, and depending on how you look at it, lions. Lions are an interesting case because the females appear smaller, but male lions are often less strong, have less endurance, and are more suited for mating and defending the home than hunting and providing for the pride.

Edit: I forgot about bonobos. They're closer to us humans in dimorphism, but they have purely matriarchal societies.

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Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

Hyenas are the immediate example. But also blue and killer whales, hamsters, elephants, mole rats, meerkats, and depending on how you look at it, lions. Lions are an interesting case because the females appear smaller, but male lions are often less strong, have less endurance, and are more suited for mating and defending the home than hunting and providing for the pride.

Edit: I forgot about bonobos. They're closer to us humans in dimorphism, but they have purely matriarchal societies.

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The males are still bigger in the case of Elephants and Lions and we already have a matriarchal group with the seekers of the Moon.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

we already have a matriarchal group with the seekers of the Moon.

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No reason there cannot be more. Honestly, given what we know of the Lore, I'm almost surprised there -aren't- more Matriarchal societies. I mean, everyone more or less acknowledges the -MOTHER-crystal (Hydaelyn) as a supreme benevolent being. Ul'dah, Limsa Lominsa, and Gridania all have female leaders. The previous leader of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn was a woman (Minfilia) and there hasn't been a replacement since she was lost, and it was a woman (Minfilia again) who was chosen as the, 'Voice of the Mother.' Lyse is moving into position to end up leading Ala Mhigo in the coming expansion.

The number of wise/benevolent rulers and deities who are female far outstrips the male counterpart. Why there aren't more matriarchal cultures is a bit of a mystery considering how it obviously -works- to have women in charge.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

No reason there cannot be more. Honestly, given what we know of the Lore, I'm almost surprised there -aren't- more Matriarchal societies. I mean, everyone more or less acknowledges the -MOTHER-crystal (Hydaelyn) as a supreme benevolent being. Ul'dah, Limsa Lominsa, and Gridania all have female leaders. The previous leader of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn was a woman (Minfilia) and there hasn't been a replacement since she was lost, and it was a woman (Minfilia again) who was chosen as the, 'Voice of the Mother.' Lyse is moving into position to end up leading Ala Mhigo in the coming expansion.

The number of wise/benevolent rulers and deities who are female far outstrips the male counterpart. Why there aren't more matriarchal cultures is a bit of a mystery considering how it obviously -works- to have women in charge.

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This is getting to much into gender politics which I'm not going to touch. I was just making the point that sexual dimorphism in mammals is most of the time to have the males be larger (and given how common this is there must be good evolutionary reasons for it) and a race doing it the other way would be a fairly extreme oddity.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

This is getting to much into gender politics which I'm not going to touch. I was just making the point that sexual dimorphism in mammals is most of the time to have the males be larger (and given how common this is there must be good evolutionary reasons for it) and a race doing it the other way would be a fairly extreme oddity.

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My bad, sorry.

Males aren't always the larger in nature when it comes to sexual dimorphism, and after the extreme we have with the Au Ra, there are a significant number of players who would like the inverse to be an option. Granted why Square didn't just alternate the differences with the two tribes is beyond me. One could've had hulking males and tiny females, and the other could have had hulking females and tiny males. Or one could have had hulking males and females, and the other could've had tiny males and females. Heaven forbid the hyur ever have to share noticeable difference with two clans.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

My bad, sorry.

Males aren't always the larger in nature when it comes to sexual dimorphism, and after the extreme we have with the Au Ra, there are a significant number of players who would like the inverse to be an option. Granted why Square didn't just alternate the differences with the two tribes is beyond me. One could've had hulking males and tiny females, and the other could have had hulking females and tiny males. Or one could have had hulking males and females, and the other could've had tiny males and females. Heaven forbid the hyur ever have to share noticeable difference with two clans.

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I think that would have been too much work as it would have basically been adding 2 races in one expansion as they would have needed there own emotes and animations racial gear. As I understand it Highlanders weren't fully finished and the playable female only came with ARR (please correct me if I mistaken) so they took there time on them which may explain why they got more attention than the other clans.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

I think that would have been too much work as it would have basically been adding 2 races in one expansion as they would have needed there own emotes and animations racial gear. As I understand it Highlanders weren't fully finished and the playable female only came with ARR (please correct me if I mistaken) so they took there time on them which may explain why they got more attention than the other clans.

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I don't know what goes into making the races, so I couldn't say for sure personally. I imagine you'd just need minor tweaks and all. Just use the same skeletons.

I could be wrong, but I read somewhere that female rabbits tend to be bigger than male rabbits of the same breed.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

I don't know what goes into making the races, so I couldn't say for sure personally. I imagine you'd just need minor tweaks and all. Just use the same skeletons.

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Minor tweaks yes, but each individual armor piece would need to be fitted and tested to this skeleton, which is a massive undertaking in this game. WoW gets away with it because blizzard doesn't care about warping and stretching textures, whereas 14 handles graphics very differently.

Remember back to when Yoshi P talked about butts, he was even against texture stretching on that issue, let alone a new race. The resources required are pretty damn high, and IMO really not worth it when we could have new, fun content instead

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

The resources required are pretty damn high, and IMO really not worth it when we could have new, fun content instead

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I'd like viera, more customization, and fun content.

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Originally Posted by Senn

I'd like viera, more customization, and fun content.

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and I'd like 1.0 graphics and animations, but I also don't want to pay a $50 sub to maintain the server and development costs.

/hyperboleover

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Originally Posted by Senn

I'd like viera, more customization, and fun content.

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I would love more customization

In for viera support & I'd love to see more of an avain type race :)

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Originally Posted by RYT

In for viera support & I'd love to see more of an avain type race :)

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Sorry, avian* my mistake. Winged type race will be more interesting.
Viera is lovely and elegant.

Our faces when they said they not planed more custom for 4.0

https://m.popkey.co/e0a07a/mprGA.gif

I just wish they had a race that was one of the 'beastmen' or something that looked very non-human.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I just wish they had a race that was one of the 'beastmen' or something that looked very non-human.

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That's my dream, but I doubt it will happen due to all the armor and weapons...and animations that they'll have to do for a new skeleton. Just more variations of Hyur tend to get boring if that's all they are going to do in the future. And Varia are basically just Hyur with bunny ears glued on their head.

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Originally Posted by Berret_Snowbear

That's my dream, but I doubt it will happen due to all the armor and weapons...and animations that they'll have to do for a new skeleton. Just more variations of Hyur tend to get boring if that's all they are going to do in the future. And Varia are basically just Hyur with bunny ears glued on their head.

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And that's all we'll EVER get so please add them for people that do want them.

Or don't add any new races at all if no effort is going to be put into them and instead use the Viera physique on existing races for a third clan (Elezen or Miqo'te) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Or don't add any new races at all if no effort is going to be put into them and instead use the Viera physique on existing races for a third clan (Elezen or Miqo'te) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Which will work better, Varia are basically just taller Miqo'te with bunny ears instead. Make a third clan for them and the other races and everyone gets something.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

And that's all we'll EVER get so please add them for people that do want them.

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Or we could save resources and just glue bunny ears to a Hyurs head ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hey! maybe we could get an extra dungeon out of that deal, or maybe some cool new game features

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Originally Posted by RosaLunaCelestia

Our faces when they said they not planed more custom for 4.0

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They really said that? Well shit...

no no no no no no JUST NO. As has been said many time (even by YoshiP) They are too close to the Miqo'te and the Au Ra. Way do people want yet another human with one or two animal parts (thought here they would most likely take the Elezen/Lalafell body and slap the ears on that)? We could get something different like the Ronso or the Rat people from 9 ya they are "cute" but that's the point, this game is overflowing with cute which is odd when you look at how dark some parts of it can be.

Can't recall Yoshi P. ever saying Viera were too close to Miqo'te and Au Ra. Can't recall him having ever said anything about Viera before at all.

The reason people want Viera is simple; they have reasonable expectations that function within the limit of the game developer's resources. The creation of a, 'Beast Tribe,' like race would be a drastic change in terms of art assets for models. To put it simply, its far too much work, particularly for a race that only a small minority of the playerbase would hold interest in. If you look at the player polls from before Au Ra, interest in a, 'Beast Tribe,' like race was absolutely minimal.

So not only is it easier to add a race like the Viera for the developers, its also something more players would play.