Its ok. I was having a hell of a time explaining it to people before they announced the job system was going to be an additional system not a replacement of the armoury system.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-Jobs-dev1033 I think was the first post I tried to explain it to people with. I'm not the best with putting my ideas down clearly with words sometimes. I need a personal editor...
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05-30-2011, 12:16 PMCairdeas
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05-30-2011, 12:38 PMZenakuwow just give up stop posting on this topic and wait for the dam update -.- just like the other forums you post and post and post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairdeas
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05-30-2011, 12:46 PMCairdeasAnd all you have done is complain complain complain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
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05-30-2011, 12:48 PMZenakuwho the hell is complaining you the one who been trying to tell ppl about your idea for 69page now wait for the dam Update -.-Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairdeas
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05-30-2011, 12:52 PMCairdeasTheres no reason to let this drop until we get a final answer or the update goes live. And as has been going on people are still actively debating and coming up with ideas in this thread. Your the one who keeps coming in and trying to derail it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
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05-30-2011, 01:07 PMZenakuAhhh please don't pin this on me now, It's a war with players who don't want it and players that do. I agree that jobs should be allow to wear more then one wep but you want them to wear them all o.o come on at least meet in the dam middle and let some jobs use more then one wep if it make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairdeas
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05-30-2011, 01:10 PMCairdeasQuote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
Zenaku when I have stated specifically that you ignored it. I'm fine with some of the ultimate extremes being blocked (Dragoon/Conjurer) But from a scaling point of view it would be more work to sit down and decide which of those choices should be blocked then just having them all unlocked. -
05-30-2011, 01:13 PMHellsoul-Sama
There is kind of a reason to let it drop... if I have to take a side on this lol, just because it's so futile throwing around ideas of "how the ideal way it would work" should end up being, since they will just update it soon anyways... no use arguing about something which is completely unknown to people, and will just be unveiled soon anyways...
ANYWAYS, I wanted to just post this quote from that old source which everyone but me has read a million times by now lol...
Quote:
"So what would we be left with? A player that equips Paladin skills gets Paladin bonuses, the title of “Paladin” – and can equip whatever weapon he/she desires. Some weapon classes might provide some bonuses, but provided they are relatively minor, the player is in control of his appearance and play style, while still playing a defined, and known, role. So the current system defines the weapon of choice and, notably, the learning of skills, but the job system layer would define the usage of the skills.
Other benefits? This would allow for Job-specific armor and weapon-specialty specific armor (in theory, if wanted). It would allow searching by job/roles. It removes weapon selection and specialization from choice of jobs."
If that's exactly how it will turn out, I'd be able to say I'm happy... just ditch the current stupid non-FF class names, keep them relative to the weapon (Way of the Sword... or something (Sword user).) and then just get an overlaying title of the job you have equipped.
I'd be much more happy to be known as a Paladin than a Shield&Sword Gladiator -> Paladin hahaha ... ugh the current class names just make me not feel like I am even playing FF, that's my whole pet peeve here... makes me cringe every time I hear Thaumaturge or any of them and then realizing I'm playing an FF title.
PS: I see how you have so many posts now Cairdeas... >____>;;; -
05-30-2011, 01:14 PMZenakuYou do understand even if you allow to use other weps you wont be allow to use there spell right? so let's sayQuote:
Originally Posted by Cairdeas
You become a white mage using a polearm you wont be allow to use any Lancer action. It's not like you going to be a White mage/lancer you just be using it wep noting more and it going to be gimp because staff/ward give you magic and Mp and so on when polearms wont give anything for your white mage.
So what would be the point of using a polearm if you be gimp and can't even use the spell from lancer on your white mage? it's not a sub-job at all pretty much this is going to be.
Unlock whitemage on your conj you put white mage on your conj and now you can't use any of the black mage spell or any spell that white mage are not allow to use but then you can unlock white mage only spell and use it on your conj.
if you use a polearm while being a whitemage you be gimp because polearm give noting for mage class only str,dex and so on. Everyone would make you switch to a staff Asap if you don't they just kick you. -
05-30-2011, 01:15 PMCairdeasI get passionate about a subject and I stick too it till I get a final answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellsoul-Sama
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...emale-Roegadyn -
05-30-2011, 01:17 PMCairdeasThats how it should work though :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
Also The weapon isn't the only thing that gives stats. You can still manually assign points in the new system they already said that. And if white mage gets its own AOE (Curaga) that can be casted without a mage weapon then you don't need the mage class to cast it either right? -
05-30-2011, 01:25 PMZenakuAlso you have to level up more then one class and they said they going to fix the issue where other players can equip higher level action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairdeas
Let's say your a Conj you unlock white mage and you want to use polearm which means you have to level up lancer,conj to 50 so you can use your fav wep and level up lancer so you can use your fav wep.
Top of that each of the action are gimp while using it on a polearm because that wep is not magic base this is why i don't use conj spell on my whitemage only cure and it not even that good. Also SE said they be fixing how other players equip high level spell like cure2 on there lancer pretty much gimping it even more. So why would you even wear a polearm and be a white mage if you can't even use any of the polearm spell top of that you be gimp. even if you allow to put point for yourself to be more magic you still be a gimp White mage vs a white mage using a Conj Staff.
At the end you be gimp and players would kick you and only allow you to play on your fav wep. Trust me matter what you say that how it going down remember in ffxi? you not allow to use great sword on PLD? or even samurai wearing a Polearm even in bird camp we was not allow most of the times. Some endgame linkshell don't care but the good one wont allow it look how Red mage turn out to be a back line job when it have to be a fighting/mage class.
Your idea sound good on paper but just like the ward and the battle system how it is now it's only good in paper not in real game play. -
05-30-2011, 01:28 PMCairdeas
again Zenaku you are explaining it just how it should work. Any combination that will ultimately not be benefitial would be overlooked by the playerbase or frowned upon. But at that point its still up to the players, not the game to determine it. Which is what I want.
If Lancer/White Mage proves to be unusable I obviously wont use it. But Marauder Thief? Only good things could come of that. etc. The choice should be up to the players not restricted by the game.
Also there is the possibility that jobs negate the magic potency of weapons with their own. -
05-30-2011, 01:32 PMZenakuAt the end players going to make you use the best wep So again what does it matter? it's never up to the players choice what they should use it up to what is best. Monk using a sword would be frowned but a staff wont right? then why notQuote:
Originally Posted by Cairdeas
Allow each job to use more then one wep that make sense to there job? it just end up the same way like you saying :) you be using a wep that good for your job. so why allow them to use them all if you only going to use what make sense and it good. -
05-30-2011, 02:32 PMVolsung
Not true on the in the end players will make you use the best weap. Time and time again, it has been proven "Shit is situational" That is a phrasing in a couple of the XI forums because of the amount of different weapons and playstyles that game has
And please if you really consider cairdeas bad for throwing around ideas you're just the same. Only from the opposite side and each time this post is about to die, someone else picks it up. There is nothing wrong with that. -
05-30-2011, 02:44 PMZenakuit's not a bad idea but at the end people going to make you get the best wep. Look at ffxi when are you allow to pick w/e sub-job / wep?Quote:
Originally Posted by Volsung
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05-30-2011, 02:48 PMZephyrAMAll of this is because you're looking at this only from a min/max standpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
Many players out there don't care in the slightest what's the best of the best character setup, gear, or whatnot... they just want to play and enjoy the game.
And who even says that end game content in XIV will be so strict and rigid that all party members 'must' squeeze out the highest potential of the class/job combos in order to complete it? Some games may be exceedingly hardcore in that respect, but that doesn't mean they have to be, and we have no idea what XIV is going to be like.
Even assuming that the general playerbase starts pushing for min/max if you want in a group... that's why you run with friends and LS members who aren't elitist to that extent, and want to try and complete content on characters that they just enjoy playing.
It's all about having fun and truly enjoying your character... not their max dps. -
05-30-2011, 02:58 PMVolsung
Again, its situational on drg i could /mage and main heal a merits party (wyrm helm) or /sam. Sam/war or war/sam can tank merits instead of sam or war /nin. DNC can /war /sam or /nin and be just fine. COR can /whm /blm /rdm /nin
BST has options for weapons and subjobs depending on solo or party play. light staff or /nin DW for solo and now /dnc. /nin /sam /war for pts. PUP can play /war /sam /nin /dnc
DRG can use staff for piercing resistance mobs and that works just fine. DRK takes full advantage of scy and gsd. pld can earth staff tank in PDT. Until lvl 33 a thf is better off with swd than dagger (completely true) different skill chains, ws for different purposes, different weapons for damage type, rdm can be fine with swd or dagger if it is frontlining to add DoT swings, but also can stay completely backline for staves depending on group size. nin and war can use a myriad of weapons for !! procs in abyssea. A blue mage can main heal with light staff and /sch or /whm I've done it multiple times. Ranger can use guns or bows and both with proficiency. Its situational
Again I'm not going to throw down that every combo must be played, but itd be ok if it was added. This is simply because the stupid combos DRG/SMN wont happen. But even if they restrict jobs to 2-3 weapons, I won't complain -
05-30-2011, 03:07 PMZenakuBecause if you want to get good gear and your in a linkshell matter how endgame is for ffxiv they want you to zerg and do the best dmg. It's not the game it's the player who make thing this way. I can care less i want to play as a Monk but do some healing or be a samurai that does fast Dps. But many how i want to play the players going to make you play how it should be done not how you want matter how the game make it this is the sad part of any mmo maybe this is the reason many people solo ;; .Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrAM
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05-30-2011, 03:16 PMVolsung
Although from the look of things in that new interview it looks like 1 class may only get 1 job. Which would be kind of lame. PUG can either get THF or MNK then, probably THF? since it has the abilities and MRD would probably get WAR which would be straight DD.... /sad could have been so much more.
edit here- if this is the case, i really wonder how in depth they'll be revamping abilities o.O -
05-30-2011, 03:56 PMZenakuwhere the interview? i like to read and i don't think Pug would get THF i think pug would no longer get the abities from thf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volsung
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05-30-2011, 04:15 PMVolsung
Its just from the information around all the forums that people have been sharing. I still dont have a direct copy of the article which sucks. I'm going to take all the talk with a grain of salt, and set my expectation burners to low ya know what I mean? Surely conjurer would be able to open blm and whm, so pug could get thf and mnk, but i'm not SE I can't make it happen. But yea if that happens you really wont be able to adapt to situational stuff like the list I wrote, which imo sucks. Hopefully whatever the lancer class gets is fun.
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05-30-2011, 04:48 PMSuzakuCMX
They said jobs and classes are unlocked 1-to-1, not that you can't use jobs on a different class so it's still possible.
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05-30-2011, 05:09 PMCairdeasWhich is what I'm hoping for.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX
Unlock Warrior on Great Axe. Use a Lance on Warrior once you have lance high enough so you can deal piercing damage towards birds. etc. -
05-30-2011, 10:07 PMKailea_Nagisa
All this speculation only leads to over hype, and that leads to people mad when the patch goes live, and it is not what they thought it would be.
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05-30-2011, 11:33 PMZephyrAMHonestly, if they try to release the Job system as a promotion system, which is what a 1-to-1 would be, and it's not 'freaking amazing', we'd be disappointed and upset anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa
It'd be like someone giving you gold coins... except they just turned out to be those crap chocolate disks wrapped in foil. -
05-31-2011, 12:38 AMCairdeasYeah, if it does turn out to be a 1-1 system similar to ragnarok where it really is just an advanced class and not an actual interchangeable job system people are going to point and laugh call it what it is and say it sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrAM
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05-31-2011, 12:38 AMKailea_Nagisa.......but I like those.....they are yummy ^.^Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrAM
but yeah I get what you mean, but still, some people are starting to "over speculate" and that is not good for anything.
I do wish SE would give alittle more info on it, but as they are just coming up with it themselves...... I wonder if they even know what it will really be in the long run ;p -
05-31-2011, 12:44 AMZephyrAM
Well, on one hand I hope they aren't just coming up with it, considering it was on their Letter list. Would like to think they had the basis solidified and are just working on the balancing and coding... which can easily take awhile.
But on the other hand, it's be nice if they were still conceptualizing it because they only 'just' told us they were planning it at all, and it'd be a good time for them to look at threads like this one and get some feedback. Major downside being it'd be a long way off to implementation if such were true.
Still, considering actual implementation wasn't even in the Future Tasks part of the Letter, it'll still be awhile anyway, so maybe they are still considering a bit and will wise up :). We shall see! -
05-31-2011, 01:12 AMFrebaut
Lock all jobs to weapons thats how it should be. A Pug is not going to be able to become a better CON by playing a PUG. All this is is your Class becomes better with new actions, Thats it. You loose being able to use actions from other classes to make PUG a better PUG with new JOB actions you get through quests.
Not sure why people have a hard time understanding this BASIC concept. SE it making the game so you can be a JOB Defined roll not a pish posh of mixed class actions.
I like it, gives my Character a DEFINED roll to play in parties now. -
05-31-2011, 01:19 AMFrebautDude you just said 1 to 1.. So that means only that class IE: PUG can use those abilities. Didn't you read the article that they want classes to become JOBS with the new actions. So why the hell would they let other classes use them?? That would be the same crap we have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX
People are not getting what SE is doing and it is so simple. Re-read the article about the JOB system then re-read it 5 more times untill you understand it. -
05-31-2011, 01:30 AMFrebaut
OK i REPOSTED the battle blueprint for people who do not know where to find it.
Look under the JOBS section toward the bottom and read it. It says each CLASS IE: PUG will be given defined rolls as JOBS.
Quote "Quests to unlock each job will become available once you have reached a certain rank in the corresponding class."
Ok get it now if your not that Class you IE:PUG you do not unlock those JOB actions.
•Jobs
The job system - that series-defining trademark - will be implemented in FINAL FANTASY XIV (details such as specific jobs TBA). Quests to unlock each job will become available once you have reached a certain rank in the corresponding class.
Rather than being advanced versions of classes, we would like players to think of jobs as specialized playing styles optimized for partying. While playing as a particular job will render you unable to equip certain actions of other classes, you will be compensated with access to exclusive actions, which can be acquired through quests.
Here is a link to the entire overview. Read it some great stuff in their.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...form-Blueprint -
05-31-2011, 01:39 AMJudge_Xero
Thanks Frebaut, I don't think that from Post 200-706 anyone had read that article. There prob wont be anymore posts after people read that and go "Oh........?.......k...."
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05-31-2011, 01:42 AMFrebautI find it funny no one reads the actual Article. Hell it tells you all the answers from it..lol , like you said post 200 and on..lol. I just got tired of people not haveing the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Xero
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05-31-2011, 02:09 AMCairdeas
Frebaut. Jobs are NOT classes Your class Doesn't BECOME the job. Once you unlock the Job you equip it just like any other skill. It then gives you access to special skills. They said specifically not to think of them as advanced classes but if they are 1-1 locked thats all they are.
If your a Pug you can't be a Con. But if your a Pug you can Equip Monk. The problem is Monk isn't always limited to hand to hand in past final fantasies. Just like White Mage isn't always limited to Wands/Staffs (Actually it normally assigned Hammers in the older FF's).
Please stop thinking Jobs and Classes are interchangeable with each other when they are independent and should be independent of each other. -
05-31-2011, 02:14 AMTheVedisneither of you know for sure how its gonna beQuote:
Originally Posted by Cairdeas
so take your own advice and stop acting like you know it all too
personaly, i believe itl be monk is pug only
some stuff like white mage/black mage may be dual class(thm or con for instance)
each "job" will have exceptions based on what classes it can be equipped as
much like how they mention gear which will only be equippable by certain classes
think of a job as an equippable item that has restrictions on what class can equip it, thats how i think itl be and itl make the most sense, some jobs will be cross class, many wont -
05-31-2011, 02:22 AMCairdeasVedis I only mentioned what we know based on the info from SE.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
1. Jobs are NOT classes.
2. Jobs shouldn't be considered Advanced Classes.
3. Jobs are unlocked by a certain Class.
Thats all we really know.
You can't be two Classes at once so a Pug can not be a Con. We know that. -
05-31-2011, 02:27 AMTheVediswell thats obvious of course you cant be 2 classesQuote:
Originally Posted by Cairdeas
we know jobs arent classes, yes
they arent "Advanced" classes no, but lets think about what advanced classes mean as compared to 11
Paladin was an advanced class, dragoon was an advanced class, ninja was an advanced class
no, we are talking class speciliazation here, which in fact, isnt "advanced classes" but a specialization
so Monk, is not an advanced class in this sense, but a more specialized verision of pug. White Mage may be a specialization of Con OR Thm.
Level unlocks, yes, unlocked by a certain class at a certain rank
if "jobs" can be cross class in some instances, there may be multiple instances in which you can unlock it based on what class you are doing and what job you are looking to unlock, again, if this happens, perhaps itl be universal.
Using the above exampke, you may unlock "White Mage" on either
HOWEVER, it may also be that you unlock "Conjuruer: White Mage" which can ONLY be used on conjurer also
again, this does not make it an ADVANCED class, but a specialization
i think when they told us they wouldnt be "advanced classes" they were telling us they wouldnt be seperate classes, but jobs you equip to the class
if they were thinking "Advanced classes" they probly woulda meant that youd start at rank 1 in that class once unlocked and itd be a seperate class to itself(which we know it isnt) -
05-31-2011, 02:31 AMCairdeasThe jobs in FFXI were called Advanced Jobs because they were not given to you at the start of the game. But they are not necessarily more "Advanced" of the basic jobs. They just had requirements to unlock so you had to be an "Advanced" player to use them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
You didn't have to start over at level 1 in Ragnarok when you advanced class either. -
05-31-2011, 02:33 AMTheVedisregardless, i believe that is what they were aiming at when they told us they werent advanced classesQuote:
Originally Posted by Cairdeas
that we would not be unlocking new "advanced" classes to rank up from the start
again, no one knows 100% for sure what they are doing yet as far as details, so we will have to wait til then to know for sure
everything we say is for the most part pure speculation