Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Well, isn't WAR mitigation supposed to be damage?

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There you go again with "wars do damage"

How many threads must you be told how dead wrong you are?

Warriors are not a dps class. No one gives a shit on how much damage you do.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

You just said you had a crapton of SkSP on, which is why you had a GCD of 1.25 seconds. Furthermore, Fey Light is only 30% skill speed. That would bring you down to a whole 1.687, and that's assuming that you're running with 2 SCH healers who elect to use their low healing pet and sync their Fey Lights perfectly. Your numbers are *still* completely full of shit.

You just keep backtracking more and more when it's pointed out how little you actually know about stuff, don't you?

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I'm not backtracking.... -.- At all. If I was, then I wouldn't be continuing to post.

It's cost me a lot to test things out. I've decided that SkSp actually beats accuracy at a certain level because even with the crap ton of Acc I have I never reach 100% accuracy on Garuda, much less anywhere else. (at most it's 99.7% or something ridiculous) I don't think 100% accuracy is even possible in the game. And if it is, it isn't worth it in the long run.

So back to SkSp I go. Fortunately I keep my gil level up because this is getting expensive.

That's what I was testing.

Anyways, your idea of WAR mitigation being "mitigation" is just more childish ranting.

I'm starting to think you have no experience with anything other than your current set up. You have nothing invested in the class so you've never seen the other side, the SkSp, Strength stacked, high level self-heal side. And worse, you assume that this side of WAR doesn't and couldn't ever exist.

What you have to understand is that designers use "Perfect Scenario"testing as in when theres no one else who takes damage and the warrior doesn't get crit when innerbeast does crit etc.

They base it off of the principle that nothing happens that could throw anything out of wack. Simply put this isn't reality that dps that got hit isn't simply thrown to the wolves he gets a heal. The problem being when every healer isn't tunneling a warrior they quickly get dropped to low health and besides lustrate and benediction healers can't magically pop that health back to full quickly.

This is what makes mitigation more effective than health. mitigation making the number received lower means that i can fill that health bar quickly and get back to the dps or anything else I might need to do.

Oh and yoshi isn't taking into account the stress on the healer in these situations.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

How can Yoshi P be wrong about his own Game...?

How can anyone even think that way?

The level of hubris is too high...

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This is VERY common and why balance patches are common in every MMO you've ever heard of. Developers cannot stay ahead of the player base in terms of either skill or practical understanding. Yoshi, after all, works. We have players who do nothing BUT FFXIV.

Yoshi is a game designer. You wouldn't expect someone who builds custom cars to be the best racer of those cars. You wouldn't expect an architect to be the best construction manager. You wouldn't expect an economics professor to be the richest man in the world.

You would THINK he'd be the best authority on the current state of the game, but he's not. He's the best authority on the intended direction of the game. That's why he's the director.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

No, I'm talking about both classes using the tools at their disposal. Fight or Flight is way better than Berserk and PLD gets a *crapton* of damage out of Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within. I've done the math *numerous* times and there's not one whit of evidence that WAR does more damage than a PLD. Whenever I do the math for a PLD in Sword Oath, I compare to a WAR outside of Defiance and, whenever I do the math for a PLD in Shield Oath, I compare to WAR in Defiance.Just because what I'm saying doesn't agree with what you want to believe doesn't mean that I'm making amateurish mistakes that any idiot could find. The math that's been done has been independently confirmed by other people. The math has been done *several* times and is right there for anyone to see. The only people saying that WAR does more damage than PLD are those people that haven't actually looked at the damage that the two deal and just go off of gut reactions ("2h axe does more damage than 1h sword!" "Maim is huge advantage!"; neither of those is true).

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lol

everything you talked about is math.

warrior does more dmg in DD gear than pld, both using relic.

tested period.

and yes maim and stormpath are huge advantages.

I still feel like something is being left out of your math.

According you, I need 2 cooldowns to be able to hit about 1500 Inner Beast... yet with 1 cooldown I get 2900 at least 3 times in a 15 minute fight and over 1500 more often than I've ever counted. I never use more than one cool down buff for Inner Beast any more because I decided that I just need one. Berserk OR Internal Release.

According to you, I need Internal Release to be able to confidently Crit Inner Beast and to reach a Crit Rate of over 10% at any given time. yet I parse and I am currently at a 20% over all Crit Rate and that's without too much melding.

According to you, I should not be getting much more DPS than a PLD which ranges to about 80ish or 90ish DPS on a primal Fight, when I'm reaching 120 on Ifrit, and 101 on Garuda and 140 on Anantaboga (which is pretty easy considering that during that fight I never move)

If your math is so right and I'm so wrong, then where are these results coming from?

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Originally Posted by Conna

Your history with SE must not go back very far. SE also thought that in ffxi warrior made a good tank...this was false. They thought Ninja damage was really good...this was false. SE has been wrong quite a bit actually,and unfortunately it takes them some time to realize that they screw it and correct problems all the time.

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When ffxi released there was no pld. WAR was the tank. WAR was an awesome tank pre 60. When NIN was released it was a DD, and with ninjitsu and shurikens it did pretty decent dmg. It was expensive for NIN to do proper DD, so it rarely happened. Players realized that blink tanking was pretty OP. And the NIN tank was born as well as breathing new life into WAR with NIN sub tanking. SE kinda embraced the NIN tank, But later content(even now) showed mobs that hit rapidly or did AoE to wipe shadows. NIN/WAR and WAR/NIN could still tank with a proper party. But, through all of this it is mitigation that made a Main Tank a Main Tank. Be it armor or shadows. Even still a great deal of end game content I was PLD/NIN. If it could hit through shadows or wipe shadows easily everyone would use a PLD. But, a PLD was not always the best choice. Hell, some content we used RDM as the main tank.

Suffice it to say it is far to early in the life of this game to say one thing over another. Also your comments about the Dev not knowing anything just proves your ignorance about the mechanics of this game. What was the intent of WAR in ffxiv, that is what people should be asking, not asking why their WAR can't tank Coils turn 5.

I don't really have much of anything to add to the OP point of this thread, but at least get your facts right about ffxi. I played it since the Level cap first jumped. Most likely you joined the game after most of the jobs had been released and NIN was already considered a tank by the community.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

5) You are now using heavy>maim>storms path. This move heals you as much as cure. This combo should be used often - once the boss is 1/3, your hate is huge already. Don't worry about BB as much at this point. Throw a fracture in as well (Does BB damage). This is important > you should do this combo once every time maim/fracture wears off - and you should be doing heavy>maim>storms path to keep healing yourself during the phases of the fight.

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In what world you Play? Storm'sPath heals me for about 100 or 150, not more. CureI heals about 600-800.

Wrong I joined in rise of the zilart for your inofrmation. Two the problem isn't that warrior can't necessarily tank certain content its that I as the healer am not going to actively make my job more difficult. A warrior is harder to heal in every situation and every encounter. Why would I in my right mind choose the tank which increases the chance of failure for a party. As I told my friend when helping him get his relic for titan. When you get a warrior tank you are essentially requiring absolute perfection from the group, because "any" mistakes results in someones death. Whether that is the tank or the dps which generally means a wipe.

Trying to actively state that warrior is capable when skilled is like looking at one half of an equation and saying i've found the answer. You haven't figured out anything because you aren't looking at damage taken as well as if they've died or not.

As a healer I flat out will ask for a warrior to not be taken when i'm healing. I have a 50 warrior and I realize that this statement is a betrayal of a class I love, but i'm also practical and considering I don't want 1000 wipes I will choose whats optimal for my parties success and a warrior is so far from optimal that I would rather wait 30 mins to find a paladin than take a warrior screaming for that same 30 min period.

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Originally Posted by fledrel

When ffxi released there was no pld. WAR was the tank. WAR was an awesome tank pre 60. When NIN was released it was a DD, and with ninjitsu and shurikens it did pretty decent dmg. It was expensive for NIN to do proper DD, so it rarely happened. Players realized that blink tanking was pretty OP. And the NIN tank was born as well as breathing new life into WAR with NIN sub tanking. SE kinda embraced the NIN tank, But later content(even now) showed mobs that hit rapidly or did AoE to wipe shadows. NIN/WAR and WAR/NIN could still tank with a proper party. But, through all of this it is mitigation that made a Main Tank a Main Tank. Be it armor or shadows. Even still a great deal of end game content I was PLD/NIN. If it could hit through shadows or wipe shadows easily everyone would use a PLD. But, a PLD was not always the best choice. Hell, some content we used RDM as the main tank.
Suffice it to say it is far to early in the life of this game to say one thing over another. Also your comments about the Dev not knowing anything just proves your ignorance about the mechanics of this game. What was the intent of WAR in ffxiv, that is what people should be asking, not asking why their WAR can't tank Coils turn 5.

I don't really have much of anything to add to the OP point of this thread, but at least get your facts right about ffxi. I played it since the Level cap first jumped. Most likely you joined the game after most of the jobs had been released and NIN was already considered a tank by the community.

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FFXI was a good game, but FFXI got NO balancing. i was DRG, and i could wait 5h for a EXP Party, all BLM, WAR/NIN, SMN/WHM found EXP Party easy, DRG was just to bad. SE needed 4 Years, til the DRG got a Buff....
What should i doo now here in FFXIV as Warrior Tank? should i wait years til they do something, or should i reroll on Paladin?

I love tanking with 2hand Axe, and i also love to get the hits, and the idea about selfheal. the Problem is just, there is no selfheal. (besides Inner Beast)

SE said once:

Paladin is a Tank who reuce incoming dmg
Warrior is a Tank who conter incoming dmg with selfheal.

Atm, there is no Endgaame Boss whre you can say WArrior > Paladin.
Atm it is just everywhere Warrior < Paladin.