Rescue is Griefing

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

You think it doesn't get used for griefing much because you play healer, it's pretty much every run of Dhon Mheg or every 4-5 runs of crystal tower where I'm not healer is where I see it. GMs also rarely act on reports other than telling you to just blacklist them so that does a whole lot of nothing.

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I’ve done a lot of CT raids and Dohn Mheg during my tenure in this game—the former especially since I’ve been playing this game for 6 1/2 years now. It is definitely not a common occurrence in the runs I have even when I am not on healer. Certainly not every run. Please don’t exaggerate if you’re trying to make a legitimate argument.

I’ve learned from reading responses in this thread that people conflate “griefing” with legitimate mistakes and mistimings. Considering someone told me as such they are going to report every instance of Rescue when someone ends up dying, and scoffed at the idea of a healer perhaps making a mistake that gets others killed. There’s also simply a huge negative bias against it that has constantly made people post about Rescue like it being used nefariously is 99% of the uses (I believe there’s even someone who said this outright).

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

To be fair, there was a person in this thread arguing against Rescue because it was essentially “god modeing”/playing god with someone’s character. As of healing itself isn’t basically playing god.

I don’t think Rescue is that big of a deal. It has its uses. A good healer knows when and where to apply them (such as when something might actually get a teammate killed—not the random circle AOE in a 24-man that doesn’t even do half their health); but they do sometimes make mistakes or mistime it, and that’s also fine. It’s not “abuse” like people enjoy saying.

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Oh yeah, fair enough. I had completely forgotten about that - should've taken a glance over at the previous pages again. But yeah, it's hardly god-modding lol much less abuse.

I agree with you overall. It has uses and under a good healer it's great when they need to utilize it. Rescue in itself is not a big deal and all it really comes down to (which I suspect is the main reason for the beef in this thread) is the attitude of the healer and DPS. People like to exaggerate of course, but I can understand the sentiment of:

Anti-Rescue POV: I know when I can take an aoe. I want to keep my rotation and my uptime. I know what I'm doing. Stop trying to drag me to wherever.
Rescue-Enjoyer POV: I don't know you in DF/PF. I have no idea what you know or don't know. I rescued you to be safe. It's not a big deal to lose one GCD.

In all, conflicting interests and it just comes down to having moderately OK communication. Just tell the healer, "I appreciate it, but don't worry, I can handle myself. My uptime matters, so please don't disrupt that."
And the healer should cooperate in kind; "Sorry, I just wanted to play it safe - you're off the leash now."

Bam, done. Most rescues just happen due to the lack of communication. They don't know you, you don't know them, so just giving them a kind word and letting them know it's all alright would be beneficial for everyone. Abuse only starts when people get angry off the bat thinking the healer is doing bad things intentionally, or that the DPS is a dummy who doesn't know the mechanics. When you reflect either of those attitudes in the way you write, it really shows, and that's where the problem lies IMO.

Eh, the ones you want to complain about are the people using it to grief. The skill itself is fine.

Only time I'd ever seen it used bad was by a bored, unfunny healer griefing Aglaia's last fight's balance mechanic twice. Nice waste of time. /s

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I’ve done a lot of CT raids and Dohn Mheg during my tenure in this game—the former especially since I’ve been playing this game for 6 1/2 years now. It is definitely not a common occurrence in the runs I have even when I am not on healer. Certainly not every run. Please don’t exaggerate if you’re trying to make a legitimate argument.

I’ve learned from reading responses in this thread that people conflate “griefing” with legitimate mistakes and mistimings. Considering someone told me as such they are going to report every instance of Rescue when someone ends up dying, and scoffed at the idea of a healer perhaps making a mistake that gets others killed. There’s also simply a huge negative bias against it that has constantly made people post about Rescue like it being used nefariously is 99% of the uses (I believe there’s even someone who said this outright).

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So because you haven't been griefed with it means other people aren't?

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

So because you haven't been griefed with it means other people aren't?

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That’s not what I said, but thank you for putting words in my mouth. I’m sure instances of griefing happen. I just don’t think they’re nearly as common as “practically every run” or “every 4-5 runs” of something. Playing this game, I don’t see it nearly as often as some of the posts—yours included—claim. So I say to you again: please do not exaggerate when you’re trying to make a legitimate argument. And perhaps don’t put words in other people’s mouths either. Have a good rest of your day! :)

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

That’s not what I said, but thank you for putting words in my mouth. I’m sure instances of griefing happen. I just don’t think they’re nearly as common as “practically every run” or “every 4-5 runs” of something. Playing this game, I don’t see it nearly as often as some of the posts—yours included—claim. So I say to you again: please do not exaggerate when you’re trying to make a legitimate argument. And perhaps don’t put words in other people’s mouths either. Have a good rest of your day! :)

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You say I'm putting words in your mouth but then you say the exact same thing. You think anyone who has bad experiences with rescue and wants something done about it is a liar and blowing it up out of proportion. All because you claim you don't see it, and if it does happen, you think it must have been a mistake.

I have my own gripes with Rescue, but some of y'all making it sound deeper than it really is tbh.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

You say I'm putting words in your mouth but then you say the exact same thing. You think anyone who has bad experiences with rescue and wants something done about it is a liar and blowing it up out of proportion. All because you claim you don't see it, and if it does happen, you think it must have been a mistake.

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Say what you will, but people blow things wildly out of proportion. Your post was a perfect example of that, since you claim that every run of Dohn Mheg has Rescue griefing, which I highly doubt since it’s just statistically unlikely. This thread is a perfect example since we have individuals complaining about the “autonomy of their characters” and any violation of that automatically equals abuse or griefing.

You claim I don’t see it so I think it’s unlikely; have you ever considered that you’re only seeing what you want to see and not actual incidents of mistakes or friends using it on each other or other innocent/applicable uses and just throwing them all under the same veil? Genuine question.

I spent most of my time in Stormblood playing BRD. Still didn’t see a bunch of healers using it to grief despite it being the new toy. I healed more in ShB and heal more now, but again: I do not see other healers using this with the frequency that you keep implying. Remember: you were the one who said “every run” of Dohn Mheg and “every 4-5 runs” of CT raids. I would wager I could do 5 runs of each and definitely not see it in the majority. Certainly not in every one.

You want to discredit my anecdotes and say yours are the absolute truth—but at the end of the day, they are both anecdotes. Exaggerations don’t make for decent arguments. That’s why hyperbole is considered an argumentative fallacy. Saying something always happens is a hyperbole; same as saying something never happens. I didn’t say they never happen; I just contested the assertion that they are extremely common. Which you keep implying with your posts to me.

I’m not going to waste any more of my limited daily posts running in circles with someone who simply wants to argue with their feelings. I say to you again: have a good rest of your day.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

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You haven't seen people on the pro-rescue side making troll threads and calling people names for disagreeing with them then. You want to talk about logic though, so sure, let's talk.

1) It's awkward to use due to the delay between it moving the player in question and from when it's been used. There are also some weird interactions with certain game mechanics since knockbacks, teleports and pulls all override each other.

2) A lot of players find it disorientating when used on them, especially if they're a player that had a plan in mind for moving to a safe zone. Imagine Rescueing a DRG or RDM and they suddenly flip away back into danger because they were intending to flip away from the danger prior to your attempted Rescue.

3) It also completely removes individual responsibility and promotes godmodding. For those that don't know, godmodding is a rp term for when one player conducts actions that control another player directly. It's shamed and people used to blank people if they pulled it even a tiny bit. This is a MMORPG and Rescue falls in the same vein. You are moving another player. Regardless of how frustrating another player might be, it breaks a certain boundary that shouldn't be broken. People will argue that long cooldown makes it okay or that healing is also controlling another player(when it clearly isn't).

4) Most healers aren't skilled enough to use it properly either. In addition to the delay between cast and activation a lot of healers are woefully unaware of the fact that rescue moves their target to where they are standing when they cast it, rather than where they are located when the ability goes off. In combination with the earlier issues, most healers also don't have the aptitude to assess their team and make decisions on whether the player in question can handle themselves or not. That DPS that just hit one of their movement abilities making them fall into the danger zone right after said healer Rescued was playing fine for 90% of the dungeon. That Tank that was standing at the edge of the healer's earthly star/asylum/sacred soil during a pull was moving out of the way of a bunch of aoe markers before said healer dragged them back into them. Said tank had never moved out of their abilities prior, yet again, said healer didn't bother to judge the situation.

5) On top of it all, we have people abusing it for their own amusement. Some people enjoy Rescueing players to their deaths. Some people use it to leash their tanks, pulling them along through the dungeon every 2 minutes. People in this very thread have admitted to doing this even.

Do what you will with these reasonings but at the least please respect the fact that they were laid out without calling the other players in this thread incompetent and without aggressive name calling.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

You haven't seen people on the pro-rescue side making troll threads and calling people names for disagreeing with them then. You want to talk about logic though, so sure, let's talk.


3) It also completely removes individual responsibility and promotes godmodding. For those that don't know, godmodding is a rp term for when one player conducts actions that control another player directly. It's shamed and people used to blank people if they pulled it even a tiny bit. This is a MMORPG and Rescue falls in the same vein. You are moving another player. Regardless of how frustrating another player might be, it breaks a certain boundary that shouldn't be broken. People will argue that long cooldown makes it okay or that healing is also controlling another player(when it clearly isn't).

Do what you will with these reasonings but at the least please respect the fact that they were laid out without calling the other players in this thread incompetent and without aggressive name calling.

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No one is going to take you seriously nor respect someone who cant tell the difference between roleplay and a role-playing game. Perhaps take this part out and you’ll have a slight chance. This isn’t godmodding at all because of the difference. You perhaps need to think really really hard on why you feel this way and find ways to deal with that instead of being worried about a skill in a video game.