Bring Back Kaiten

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Originally Posted by Keichi

And where is the problem?
They would need to remove all the other things that came with removing this one skill.

Kaiten was taking away. Mean, one skill lesser to have a focus. In exchange gave they some skills auto direct/crit hit. That should be enough and a fair trade.

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A fair trade would be giving us a new skill to replace Kaiten because, at least from my understanding, the reasoning behind kaiten's removal was that it was too restrictive of a skill for the developers to design around going into the new expansion (7.0)

Good damage is not a replacement for good gameplay. This was not a fair trade

I recently had a thesis how to explain Kaiten from a general Aikidoka perspective: Breath, Kaiten was an ability to emulate active breathing techniques of the Samurai. In order enhance your Attacks, Throws* (* in Aikido) and Slashes effectiveness, you have to breath into them, every single one. Which Kaiten perfectly emulated. Prepare a Big Attack, take a Breath and Slash! Taking a Breath was Kaiten and it made everything the Samurai did feel so much better, which is why we all wanted this Gameplay Aspect to be preserved!

Without Kaiten the FFXIV Samurai cannot Breath into their attacks to make them stronger.

1. of course Kaiten has to return, though I think Auto-Crit won't go away it shall be okay, my initial Idea would be that Kaiten makes the next weaponskill will be Direct Hit, thus making Kaiten Midare/Ogi Direct-Crit and it still rewards Good Resource Management that way.
   
2. Tsubamegaeshi, since Tsubamegaeshi doesn't contribute to meditation stacks anymore and Ogi Namikiri turning into it's Tsubamegaeshi version within the same button.
   I really do not see why Tsubamegaeshi shouldn't a trait to Iaijutsu. "but wouldn't be Iaijutsu too similar to Ogi?" The Difference between Iaijutsu and Ogi would be that you still have to prepare Iaijutsu, will Ogi will be triggered by using Ikishoten as Ogi Trigger.
   
3. The Following Idea came from the Forum User xAFROx
   Ikishoten turning Shinten to Senei and Kyuten to Guren as Trigger.
   I love that Idea since it's how I use those Skills anyway. 1 trigger for 2 skills, nice

Point 2. and 3. would free up 3 Buttons! reintroduce Kaiten and add an Single Target Ogi (because 7.0) and I could play on my Default Single Target Interface without Macros!
[EDIT] Cone Tenka Goken has to return aswell! a Lone Cone on 2minutes doesn't make any sense at all

Samurai starts with lvl50 and I see lvl50 to be on par with a 1st Dan, since in my opinion Midare Setsugekka could be viewed as a typical 1st Dan Technique, regarding how often we do it even at lvl90.

so lvl50 is about practising fundamental techniques.

above lvl50 begins the Journey, Kaiten was the breathing technique to improve your performance, it gave you the task to think of Kenki to use for your advantage

Without Kaiten, playing Samurai is a stagnating experience that never really changes beyond lvl50

with Kaiten, even if they just add new skills, the Kenki Management would still be there to play with.

think of it like Overwatch for example, yes they added new Heroes but it's still Overwatch.

but Kenki Management through Kaiten was what made the Samurai in the long run.
and since 6.1 Samurai is on a boring Dead End.

To this day it still baffles me they made a well designed class worse for no reason other than making theirs own job easier while serving us some throw away bullshit excuse in a paid live service game

#bringbackkaiten

I just watched the Live Letter#74
and I still read posts in the chat that demand to merge Shoha1+2 and Senei+Guren
which aggrevates me because it means that I still have to repeat myself since April of 2022!
But here we are again:
Merging Shoha1+2 and Senei+Guren will destroy the Aspect of the Samurai being in control of the Battlefield, since they lose control of what to hit and what not to hit.
changes they should bring to Samurai instead in order to bring back Kaiten:

1. turn Tsubamegaeshi into a follow Up to Iaijutsu, just how it is with Ogi Namikiri right now
2. turn Senei and Guren into buffs for Shinten and Kyuten, activated by Ikishoten

those 2 Points would cut 3 Buttons, enough to bring Kaiten back and add a Single Target Ogi, which may the reason why they deleted Kaiten in the first place, to free space so they can add another Skill in the future.
I would be fine if Kaiten makes the next Weaponskill Direct Hit for 20 Kenki.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

I just watched the Live Letter#74
and I still read posts in the chat that demand to merge Shoha1+2 and Senei+Guren
which aggrevates me because it means that I still have to repeat myself since April of 2022!
But here we are again:
Merging Shoha1+2 and Senei+Guren will destroy the Aspect of the Samurai being in control of the Battlefield, since they lose control of what to hit and what not to hit.
changes they should bring to Samurai instead in order to bring back Kaiten:

1. turn Tsubamegaeshi into a follow Up to Iaijutsu, just how it is with Ogi Namikiri right not
2. turn Senei and Guren into buffs for Shinten and Kyuten, activated by Ikishoten

those 2 Points would cut 3 Buttons, enough to bring Kaiten back and add a Single Target Ogi, which may the reason why they deleted Kaiten in the first place, to free space so they can add another Skill in the future.
I would be fine if Kaiten makes the next Weaponskill Direct Hit for 20 Kenki.

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In the past, we have been disagreeing on the impact merging Shoha1+2 would have but I must admit I like those two points.

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Originally Posted by Flashy

A fair trade would be giving us a new skill to replace Kaiten because, at least from my understanding, the reasoning behind kaiten's removal was that it was too restrictive of a skill for the developers to design around going into the new expansion (7.0)

Good damage is not a replacement for good gameplay. This was not a fair trade

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This is a key aspect that's often overlooked using the "muh damage" argument; the Kaiten change wasn't a change, it was a removal. It was entirely reductive. They removed it simply because balancing around it was deemed to be too difficult. I think the SAM community at large would have been ok with the removal of Kaiten if something else with a similar playstyle feel had been added in it's place AND if the change had been at a more appropriate time, i.e. when switching from one xpac to the next. I think if these two criteria had been met then things would have been received with a more accepting approach. Most SAM's, myself included, would have certainly been willing to give SE the benefit of the doubt.

But that didn't happen and here we are.

the thing that urks me the most about all of this is that they had this massive Backlash about the Kaiten Removal and after that they assure to make Developer Commentary to explain why they did those changes, like for the Tanks and such.

Meanwhile they still haven't comment on the Kaiten Removal outside of doubling down that Kaiten will not return, dooming us to those Shinten Spamming Zombies who have to sit on Kenki to maximize dps.

They act like removing Kaiten is the only way to have the Samurai playable though Samurai has 4 Skills on 2minutes, 2 of which could be easily reworked into buffs on existing Skills, like it already is on the Warrior! Oh and Tsubamegaeshi? since 6.0 it doesn't contribute to Shoha stacks thus it could be a reworked as a Double Tab to Iaijutsu, it would save a button and would change nothing to the Samurai Gameplay (outside of double tapping Iaijutsu, like we do with Ogi Namikiri already)

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

In the past, we have been disagreeing on the impact merging Shoha1+2 would have but I must admit I like those two points.

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hehe luckily the Variant Dungeon perfectly proves my point with the Drake Family, you do not use Ogi Namikiri or Shoha II at that Part of the Dungeon, yet you still can do Shoha I^^
for me the Fantasy of the FFXIV Samurai is to be able to utilize their resources in multiple situations, stuff that for example Dragoon or Paladin isn't really able to and it's an important point of view to keep in mind:
The Samurai is about analysing the Battlefield and make the most out of what they have and are able to achieve to win the Fight