Believe it or not the 11 after Final Fantasy in Final Fantasy 11, is used to indicate that it is the eleventh entry in a series. I.E. there were 10 games before it, and various offshoots, many of which featured Red Mage, and in none of which was Red Mage a support class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gukie
It's a tired saying, but this is not FF11, nor should it be. I loved 11, but this is a different game.
....? This really doesn't deal with the problem at all. You're making one job that has 3-4 different play styles, which is unfortunately, inherently counter to the current job system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
Nor does this address the other issue, Red Mage would either be inherently weaker than any of those specialized classes at their role, or better, in which case those classes would be useless. In a perfect world, where they're evenly balanced, it's still just a really unappealing approach that runs counter to the design of the job system.
This has more to do with class buffs and debuffs. So unless SE starts implementing that sort of system into the game to force players to take different jobs, this argument is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
We're having a reasonable discussion here, and I don't have any sort of idea in my head that my solution is the best one, but try to read it and understand it, because I think you're missing something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
You can't do what I'm describing with the current system. That's why I'm suggesting it, it would give Red Mage a unique role to play, which is the key to the job system.
How is having the ability to play every role unique? It's not, you can already change jobs in the field. (Though you did just suggest a system where Red Mage can swap between roles out of combat.)
The ability to play every role in the course of a single fight is unique.
Currently, you're correct, you could have someone run as a DPS, and swap to heals for boss fights or something. But what I'm describing is a RDM being able to swap roles at specific points within fights. Perhaps your group runs fine on one healer until the boss is at 25%, run with a RDM and let him DPS and switch to heals at the end to help you get through.
RDM's abilities could be built around swapping roles, encouraging them to plug leaks in the raid's efficiency, and never allowing them to take up a single role for long enough to replace that role for an entire fight. Thus requiring at least 1 main tank, 1 main healer, and 1 or more main DPS. (Though I suppose you could do some weird stuff with a few RDM swapping roles in reverse... but that kind of crap is what we live for, isn't it?)
This is true, but more importantly, the class could just have its abilities balanced around a certain set of stats. Unless stat/ability relationships are tied up in some seriously misguided and hardcoded systems, you could simply balance abilities, defensive, offensive, healing, what have you around a certain arrangement of stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
Red Mage: I am not a Back line class
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04-17-2012, 01:55 AMRamsey
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04-17-2012, 01:55 AMArcell
In regards to MP concerns, Bard is giving out MP regen songs. Also they could give Fencer/Red Mage an ability like Featherfoot. Guarantees a parry and grants MP upon a successful parry.
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04-17-2012, 01:55 AMAlaulaTheGreat
Yes! I am a strong, independent bla... red mage! :3
Ooh, more fears to add to my list. o: -
04-17-2012, 04:12 AMYrusama
(Just looking at initial post, not bothering to read the several pages that follow)
I really like the idea of Red Mage combos branching between tp moves and spells. I think Red Mage should still use MP for spells, but conserve the MP if using them at the end of a combo. As a job, I think if they ever add Fencer, it would branch from this but also gain abilities from both THM and CNJ (low-tier nuking and healing respectively) while utilizing its own spells, since no two classes learn the same abilities.
Dualcast is a staple for the class, but White Mage already gets this in the form of Presence of Mind. Maybe Red Mage should get a fast-cast action, allowing them to temporarily halve or quarter cast/recast timers. -
04-17-2012, 07:30 AMDuelle
I guess I should be glad to see so many pro-melee/fencer/not-refresh-bot posts with regards to Red Mage. I just hope the CMs and the devs are reading the threads for ideas.
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04-17-2012, 07:41 AMJinkoThis thread isn't in Japanese so its unlikely :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
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04-17-2012, 07:56 AMLeoheart
Keep Rdm as an enfeebling job, what it was always meant to be.
The way the classes/jobs abilities and spells are spread out and structured has given Rdm the chance it needs to fit in as an enfeebling job.
Unlike ffxi, other jobs had access to most of Rdms crucial spells, and made Rdm a redundant job, luckily it may be able to redeem itself in this game.
Heck.. Could even make rdm another advanced job for Thaumaturge.. Give it dia and bio back along with slow paralyze and bind.
Sure rdm could use swords, but was it good with them?... lolno -
04-17-2012, 07:58 AMJinkoWhat Final Fantasy games besides 11 was a RDM "supposed" to be an enfeebler ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoheart
You aren't using your imagination, just because it wasn't A+ in 11 with swords doesn't mean it can't be in this game.Quote:
Sure rdm could use swords, but was it good with them?... lolno
None of the Job's in this game are really comparable to their FF11 counterparts so why would you assume RDM would be. -
04-17-2012, 07:59 AMLeoheartQuote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
Lol Fair point, actually. -
04-17-2012, 07:59 AMDuelleFixed. So many typos. :OQuote:
Originally Posted by Leoheart