"Elitism" vs "Casualism"

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

No, I can still can give advice to help everyone meet the assumptions within the contract and future contracts.

Is it better to kick a person failing at a mechanic you can spend 3 minutes explaining (or just copy pasting from a wiki)?

It is better to leave than to say "You can save MP by not spamming Cure 1 to try to get that Cure 2 proc. You have a 85% chance to not proc that."

I may have costed a handful of minutes explaining mechanics or mana saving tips, but I just gave that person accumulated netted time in the future from those tips.

Now, if they or a GCBTW Whiteknight tells me to stop or don't bother at all to try to execute what I have explained, then I can choose to execute my contract termination rights and leave or try to salvage my bottom line and kick the person. Invoices will not get paid, and time is cumulatively lost among everyone within that contract.

I have all of those rights as a contract holder and a player within that DR event. You, someone who I do not have a contract with, has no say.

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Cool story. I have no sympathy when you receive a negative response. Also, this obviously fits below "continue attempting to complete the duty"

edit: i feel like a lot of people in this thread ignore that in so many instances of mechanical difficulty, people do indeed ask for tips (i.e. "i'm new, any tips?" "What do i do here" "anything to watch out for") That is solicited advice. Knock yourselves out. My experience when it comes to people giving unsolicited advice has never been positive.

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Originally Posted by Laesha

And I always give my best effort. That is my number 1 enjoyment in the game, competing against myself to be optimal. Knowledge + effort = contribution. I want to contribute as much as I possibly can to any given duty. Sometimes I do better than others, but my general curve always trends upwards over time.

But if someone else does not do that, for me, it is fine.

Also, i do not care about your respect. I care about contributing as much as I can. Any time taken off of the total duty time is merely a side effect of effort, but it is never my goal.

And if that is difficult for you, again, you can kick, leave, or attempt to continue.

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I see that *You* thing you have and it's quite funny. The message wasn't aimed at you in particular, but apparently it's too difficult for You to understand that (: .
Quite sad that besides these choices you don't see other solutions. I'll decline your advice and will try something else if the problem comes.
Like trying to give a helpful advice. :D

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

Like trying to give a helpful advice. :D

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This is merely attempting to continue.

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Originally Posted by Laesha

Cringe all you want. If advice is not asked for, it is pretentious.

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This is just incorrect on so many levels. If I get put into an instance with someone playing their job quite literally wrong on every single level I'm going to give some simple advice. I've taught multiple people among my friends and FC how to play WAR, I've taught countless people in an MMO I used to play how to play the class I played there. I enjoy teaching people and helping them improve. XIV is the only game I've played where the standard response to someone attempting to help one improve is hostility, and due in part to that is why XIV has such a gigantic problem with toxic casuals and how that mindset is coddled, white knighted, & defended by a large majority of the playerbase. They perpetuate the problem and allow it to fester.

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

snip.

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You do you, boo. Enjoy the hostility.

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Originally Posted by Laesha

You do you, boo. Enjoy the hostility.

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GCBTW.

/10char

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

GCBTW.

/10char

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if only i were here for the community

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Originally Posted by Laesha

My experience when it comes to people giving unsolicited advice has never been positive.

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Please explain, or give examples on why they weren't positive. Were they rude or just blunt when giving advice? were they rude after a certain point?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Please explain, or give examples on why they weren't positive. Were they rude or just blunt when giving advice? were they rude after a certain point?

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Most of the ones i see are terse, obnoxious, often macro'ed with sounds.

USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>
USE HOLY <se.1>

"L2P, regen is your best heal"

Telling a dancer not do aoe on groups of 2 or use their aoe procs on single targets. (aoe is for 3 or more)

I see lots of people who feel required to speak up and "advise" healers who are "not doing enough dps", while I'm busy burying them.

One in particular that I remember having that was directed at myself-

I joined an expert rou as Ast. The group kept a good pace, so I did my best to deal as much dps as possible, minimize overhealing, etc. Naturally this caused the group HP to hover around 70%. No one died, and I felt very good about my performance. After the first boss to the end of the dungeon I was called lazy, bad, worthless. I was told I wasn't healing nearly enough, that my job was to keep people topped off. etc. I rolled my eyes and finished the dungeon. Apparently me ignoring their advice wasn't enough to warrant a kick, just abuse.

I've been told that @ level 80, fire 2 should be a big part of my blm aoe rotation. I've been told that I should never use TBN on drk.

Some of that advice was delivered kindly, other abusively. All bad. And as I think i mentioned, lots of advisors i've seen tend to be rather terrible players. I can honestly remember only 2 mentors (with the crown) that i found impressive and would have been interested in advice from based on their play. (I remember them specifically because they are so rare. One was in a 50/60 run of the Anti-tower during Stormblood. He was one of the best bards i've ever seen. And the other was a very good warrior that I don't recall using a single GCD heal on in Grand Cosmos)

Edit - other ones that i think of are healers who rescue me into death, then bitch when i tell them I didn't need a rescue and the incoming damage was fully intended and fully survivable. (specifics that come to mind are yanking me away from EV4 Shiva's center holy when i'm on tank and can easily survive with some cooldowns. In Rabanastre during Stormblood, i would often take hits with Riddle of Earth to keep my stacks and then heal myself. The phase switch from Garuda to Ifrit on EV2.) All of which basically reinforce my idea that they are just being pretentious by thinking they know better than I do. If i want help, i will ask for it (or more likely seek it out myself)

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Originally Posted by Laesha

Most of the ones i see are terse, obnoxious, often macro'ed with sounds.

Some of that advice was delivered kindly, other abusively. All bad. And as I think i mentioned, lots of advisors i've seen tend to be rather terrible players. I can honestly remember only 2 mentors (with the crown) that i found impressive and would have been interested in advice from based on their play. (I remember them specifically because they are so rare. One was in a 50/60 run of the Anti-tower during Stormblood. He was one of the best bards i've ever seen. And the other was a very good warrior that I don't recall using a single GCD heal on in Grand Cosmos)

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Aside from that Grand Cosmos run (which people were clearly being jerks while you were doing just fine) some of what you have listed isn't BAD advice, but the delivery wasn't good. AoE on 2 enemies is a waste of time and resources. Regen is also very useful. If someone had to resort to spamming a macro for Holy usage (or felt the need to make one in the first place) then I think the issue was that particular healer at the time and others who don't use Holy, when they probably should be. Again, not bad advice, but it could have been worded better instead of coming from a place of frustration...or spamming chat with an obnoxious macro. In raids, healers are tasked with minimizing damage as well as keeping people upright if they can. So yeah, they will rescue you to avoid unnecessary damage. Just because you CAN survive something doesn't always mean it's a good idea. To me, that is being somewhat bullheaded for no reason. They're doing their jobs. As a tank, you should be looking to minimize your own incoming damage wherever possible. Why take more when you could have taken less?