Astrologian "BUFFS"

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Originally Posted by ckc22

And people act like I'm being crazy about the kind of stuff that gets posted here.

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You left unbolded the important part of Taranok's statement .. in full context, (s)he is saying that to counter balance the fact that AST has to channel, thus unable to act, unable to move, it should have a better effect. The statement isn't just saying CU should be better, just that the positive should match the negative.

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Originally Posted by Emonik

Leave! Thanks

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Thanks for impressing me with your well argued points and interesting ways to balance astrologians. "Make it better than whm/sch" genius.

I like how "Ast should get buffed so that its more unique aspects are stronger instead of just copying whm/sch" is me trolling and playing a victim?

This board is wacked.

Sorry that I'm not a fan of the massive class homogenization 3.0 has brought.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

Thanks for impressing me with your well argued points and interesting ways to balance astrologians. "Make it better than whm/sch" genius.

I like how "Ast should get buffed so that its more unique aspects are stronger instead of just copying whm/sch" is me trolling and playing a victim?

This board is wacked.

Sorry that I'm not a fan of the massive class homogenization 3.0 has brought.

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No your problem is you cherry pick one section of an entire post and act like a victim! I have posted numerous ideas in numerous threads about ways to make AST unique. See this is what we agree on! HOWEVER, and this is the part you aren't understanding, SE has made them a whm/sch mix and match class. So that's what we have to work with. So in light of the "homogenization", those of us asking for buffs are merely asking for balance. Right now all AST's have are watered down weakened version of SCH and WHM skills. So in order to be useful, and assuming that they aren't going to revamp the entire class, we are asking that those similar aspects come up to par with their counterparts.

The part that is you trolling is looking at our requests and ideas and replying that all we want are better versions of SCH and WHM skills! This is NOT true! Take, again, for example Collective Unconscious in Nocturnal Stance. We can both agree that this skill is just "Sacred Soil", except it's a smaller range, and it's a channeled skill that disallows the AST to take any other actions. Sacred Soil is a cast skill, that costs 1 Aetherflow stack, is instacast, has a chance to proc a free AoE heal, and allows you to continue to take action while it is down. These 2 skills are no where near balanced between the 2 classes. You have to acknowledge that!

Now, there are 3 ways to fix this:
1) Completely rework this skill for AST so it no longer is a bad sacred soil but something all together different! (This i believe is what you and I want, but it's also not what SE is going to do)
2) Buff Collective Unconscious to have either a better shield, or some other effect that balances it in regards to usability and utility. (Things here have been suggested, and you've shot them down with what i consider trolling)
3) Make it exactly the same as Sacred Soil and further homogenize. (This is probably what SE is going to end up doing, but no one actually wants that!)

All i'm asking is that you stop coming here and shooting down ideas that are based around the skills that SE gave us, because it's all we have to work with.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

Thanks for impressing me with your well argued points and interesting ways to balance astrologians. "Make it better than whm/sch" genius.

I like how "Ast should get buffed so that its more unique aspects are stronger instead of just copying whm/sch" is me trolling and playing a victim?

This board is wacked.

Sorry that I'm not a fan of the massive class homogenization 3.0 has brought.

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I don't think anybody want it to be better than WHM/SCH? but in order for ppl to actually play them they have to be able to do the latest content aka savage, and right now they just cannot. You can bring AST's to content when you outgear it (in fact they are perfect to bring when you outgear content), but for progression atm you CANNOT bring them, that is the problem.

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Originally Posted by Thela

I don't think anybody want it to be better than WHM/SCH? but in order for ppl to actually play them they have to be able to do the latest content aka savage, and right now they just cannot. You can bring AST's to content when you outgear it (in fact they are perfect to bring when you outgear content), but for progression atm you CANNOT bring them, that is the problem.

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My 2% (for both targets) wipe on Savage 1 says otherwise. Which would have been a kill if the monk didn't get killed by the giant laser beam.
Only took 2 lockouts to get that far. Will most likely beat it today (as Astro). We only do 2-3 lockouts a night however, I'm fairly certain by the amount of sub 5% pulls we got on the first night we will beat it.

None of the issues we have is healing, its all simply execution of mechanics.

This seems to be a learn to play astro issue more than it needing any changes. (Besides the garbage shield stance)

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Originally Posted by Staris

This seems to be a learn to play astro issue more than it needing any changes. (Besides the garbage shield stance)

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I'm curious as to how much the other healer is making up for your faults though. Skill will only take you so far. Ast is objectively worse (as in raw, mathematical side by side comparisons) than both of the other healers in virtually every aspect (we need to have perfect rng to even win the "best buffer" category).

Don't fool yourself, ast needs a lot of changes.

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Originally Posted by Eudyptes

I'm curious as to how much the other healer is making up for your faults though. Skill will only take you so far. Ast is objectively worse (as in raw, mathematical side by side comparisons) than both of the other healers in virtually every aspect (we need to have perfect rng to even win the "best buffer" category).

Don't fool yourself, ast needs a lot of changes.

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Ast can definitely use some changes but that doesn't stop "I'm curious as to how much the other healer is making up for your faults though" any less of a complete informal fallacy as well as the "CANNOT take them into raids". The bottom line is that even with marginally less healing output ast are capable of doing the savage content and some already have. The content has been setup to allow any reasonable job combination to be viable. If a "job" is making or breaking your team you need to reanalyze your strategy or your healers abilities. My team has went double ast (a less than desirable setup imo as id rather have a whm as other healer) thru just about every piece of content in this game and not had an issue with heals at all. So long as the healers know how to play the job it's a non-issue. The same thing goes for drk.

Now I will agree that my statics ast thinks they could use some buffs and changes and she was extremely happy with the ones that were just dropped,) but lets not pretend that because some people cannot efficiently play a class or it hasn't been mastered in 28 days that its fundamentally broken and incapable of raiding when people have already raided it successfully in various party make ups.

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Originally Posted by Emonik

snip

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Point is, you cannot make AST on par with SCH on Nocturnal and WHM on Diurnal. While that would be "balanced", it would make both WHM and SCH obsolete as you could just roll an AST and be both with the flip of a switch.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Point is, you cannot make AST on par with SCH on Nocturnal and WHM on Diurnal. While that would be "balanced", it would make both WHM and SCH obsolete as you could just roll an AST and be both with the flip of a switch.

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While AST has cleared A1S with WHM partner and may be in a better place then people make it out to be, in no way would or should you see double AST even if the healing was on par with WHM in one sec and SCH in the other. The same way you do not see double WARs, healers work better with two different healers. Right now the preferred combo is WHHM/SCH and most groups are not taking AST at all. The only success I have seen is WHM/AST however which shows that AST cannot handle being a primary healer and only WHM right now seems to be able to. Not that I think AST needs to heal like a WHM and SCH in each sect, just that in no way would you make the other healers obsolete. Also the play style is completely different between the three classes, with SCH being the most different with the pet and the raw dps and healing of the WHM.

Well, my static is currently sporting SCH/AST. Admittedly, it is hard - and we have cleared T8 savage (albeit with WHM/SCH). Will see how we manage after we practice a bit.