Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't be telling them in the first place. =p

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You were being cynical, which you still haven't grasped the meaning of, it would seem. I pointed that out, and jabbed back.
It's not my fault you're sensitive. :p

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Originally Posted by Saigo

Why Yoshido just don't used the magical "Git Gud" ?

That clearly apply here when I see so much "Main WHM" that don't have any fcking clue about how their job as to be done.

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Oh god, the "Git Gud."
The problem with this situation vs. that situation, is that in this situation, the White Mage was given mechanics that aren't truly functional (or at the most, they're minimally so) and players are trying to get that addressed. Certainly, the job can still be played as is, but why take things away and add in this mechanic as an answer to what is lost if the mechanic doesn't bring anything to the table? It really isn't fair.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Oh god, the "Git Gud."

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He's not here to add anything to the discussion; try not to take the obvious bait. Not worth.

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Originally Posted by javid

you conclusion is invalid. One of the prevailing arugments on this forum is "IF SE IS DEAD SET ON MAKING A RNG PROC SYSTEM BASED ON WHM SKILL USAGE, why not make it proc off of regens and medica II's?"

And my posted answered that questions with why IT WON'T be on regen/medica II applications. Plainly b/c there are too few of them per fight by comparison to Cures I & II; Also in an early post I demonstrated why it would be even worst if they made it proc off of regen ticks (how abusive it could be and/or completely unoticeable by efficient play-styles). Hence the reason why it has to stay on Cures IF SE IS DEAD SET ON A RNG PROC SYSTEM BASED ON WHM SKILL USAGE.

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Even if I accepted your conclusion to be valid (which I don't at this time), that alone wouldn't solve the Lily problem.

The bit about regen and medica II etc. not working with the Lily system isn't actually the prevailing argument; it's a subordinate argument to the main issue of Lilies being terrible as presented at the media reveal.

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Originally Posted by javid

Ah haaa!! While the first point of outdated Mainheal/Offheal isn't true in current meta nor will it be true moving forward towards Speed clear farm phases in the future. The second point is very much something to consider!

I don't feel like posting more logs, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pull stats on fights where both healers contribute about the same HPS, that the distribution of skills used in that cooperation won't vary too far from the Main healer/Off healer skill distributions.

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You...don't think that Mainheal/Offheal is outdated? Well, this does help explain some of your positions in this thread.

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Originally Posted by javid

Ah haaa!! While the first point of outdated Mainheal/Offheal isn't true in current meta nor will it be true moving forward towards Speed clear farm phases in the future. The second point is very much something to consider!

I don't feel like posting more logs, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pull stats on fights where both healers contribute about the same HPS, that the distribution of skills used in that cooperation won't vary too far from the Main healer/Off healer skill distributions.

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ok not to be The One, but the ones you posted? those three? The "co-healer" to the WHM touched their heals very little in comparison. meaning they were DPSing. not healing. Hence the numbers of uses of Cure 1/2.

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Originally Posted by javid

Ah haaa!! While the first point of outdated Mainheal/Offheal isn't true in current meta nor will it be true moving forward towards Speed clear farm phases in the future. The second point is very much something to consider!

I don't feel like posting more logs, but I wouldn't be surprised if we pull stats on fights where both healers contribute about the same HPS, that the distribution of skills used in that cooperation won't vary too far from the Main healer/Off healer skill distributions.

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Using a specific log or two to back up your arguments on here is ridiculous in any case. If I wanted to I could cherry pick logs that supported the arguments "Good WHMs mainly use Cure3 for heals", or "Good WHMs mainly use Medica for heals".

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

You...don't think that Mainheal/Offheal is outdated?

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It's definitely an outdated concept, but wouldn't the situation he presents with his samples be a good example of a sort of stress test situation? In such a situation, although there was an out, the White Mage solo healed, and solo healed sufficiently and effectively, using what he or she had in his or her disposal. In my mind, maybe that's not what you or I would be doing, but that sort of data sample might be what influences decisions like the ones made and put out for the lilies and confessions. I don't think it's wrong to bring it up, even if it isn't a direct solution to the lilies and confessions' lack of meaningful utility.

Edit: Again, trying to keep it clear that I'm not advocating for the current lily and confession system, speaking from a perspective as a player who played Thordan Extreme many times with PUGs via Duty Finder before they stuck it into the Raid Finder, I've actually seen many White Mages try to heal by only using Cure and maybe, if I was lucky, an occasional Cure II. A Medica II if they were feeling particularly jazzy. Definitely not the best way to go into these fights, but maybe something similar happens with much of the casual market of the game, and that's what they were trying to address?

Edit again: Actually, I believe that he was agreeing with you about this being an outdated META. He's saying that the composition isn't true, as in, it isn't the true Meta at this time and that it won't be, going forward. At least, I think.

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Originally Posted by IttyBitty

He's not here to add anything to the discussion

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I know. But I dare to dream, and hope that maybe, just maybe, he's serious.
And that he'll listen to reason.

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Originally Posted by Chiami

Our next raise becomes WAY better than what the others can do. We are the miracle healers! I think there are two things our Raise should be able to do if we combine it with Plenary Indulgence (also again in tune with the name of this skill and our core identity)

1) If we cast it on a fallen comrade that person is revived without weakness. Making white mage the first choice to raise people while at the same time of course this eats more painfully into our MP… so who should cast it, the Red Mage or Scholar who might have the spare MP but weakness follows or the White Mage…? Tactical team choice! Raise and shine, my not-anymore-fallen-comrade!

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As much as I like the idea, I'm sure it's a bad one. It is great for statics or FC groups, but it would be a nightmare for pick-ups and duty-finder groups. No one would rez because they would assume it's the WHM job to do it himself.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Snip.

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It is Definitely a Stress-Test on the WHM. I've done A9s as "Solo heal" with BOTH an AST and a SCH as my "co-heal". at the end of the run, you feel very accomplished and then slink to the MB for more MP pots because you forgot to go to Diadem to get the stuff to make them.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Even if I accepted your conclusion to be valid (which I don't at this time), that alone wouldn't solve the Lily problem.

The bit about regen and medica II etc. not working with the Lily system isn't actually the prevailing argument; it's a subordinate argument to the main issue of Lilies being terrible as presented at the media reveal.



You...don't think that Mainheal/Offheal is outdated? Well, this does help explain some of your positions in this thread.

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If you're being technical about what it means to be a main and off healer then I have no idea what your meaning of main and off healer means.

But the definition of main healer and off healer is the main healer does most the work and the off healer picks up the slack. Any ratio of healing that isn't 100%/0% or 50%/50% are all compositions of Main healer/Off healer. If you meaning something else about the term Main healer/ Off healer then I'm confused.

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Originally Posted by Aurum

Using a specific log or two to back up your arguments on here is ridiculous in any case. If I wanted to I could cherry pick logs that supported the arguments "Good WHMs mainly use Cure3 for heals", or "Good WHMs mainly use Medica for heals".

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This is an example of a troll... the fact that you said this means you did not go and do your homework (like my posted started off saying not to take my word for it; and then later encouraged you to do the heavily lifting yourself) and pull up the link to the full HPS page and click on parse after parse after parse after parse, while YES we can't have a conclusive report from looking at 1 to 3 parses, but if you took the time and looked up 10 or 15 of them, while still not conclusive, it would give you a general idea what may be going on.


BUT HUMOR ME...since you think the cherry picking to make a point is easy.... how about you find one that supports a different claim then what i suppose?? Should be easy right??