Monks very weak. Need rebalance

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Originally Posted by Kijimea

Even though i know monk is a dps machine, THIS is hilarious :D 300dps on Titan(!) lol especially with DL ^^ You know you should check your parser sometimes. Like once i had 40k to dummy and 20k of it was DoT dmg which obviously is totally wrong. According to parser DPS numbers you will never ever get 300dps on Titan, definitly not with DL gear. Your dps in parser will drop everytime he jumps. I would even go as far that u wont do 300 dps on any static fight lasting more than 2 minutes.

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Should I count how many don't count the 2nd hit damage that's applied per hit done on an enemy with proper positioning? Even if you initially see 300 dps, you do more than 300. That second bonus hit even has a chance of critting as well.

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Originally Posted by CheshirePuss

Should I count how many don't count the 2nd hit damage that's applied per hit done on an enemy with proper positioning? Even if you initially see 300 dps, you do more than 300. That second bonus hit even has a chance of critting as well.

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I don't understand.. what?

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

I don't understand.. what?

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I keep seeing people mentioning only the first tic of damage, but every hit brings 2 tics of damage. 300 is not the most a monk can do because of it.

Another idea about Shoulder TAckle- remove stun effect and make just a skill of quick moving to emeny with CD 10sec

I wanted to remind you all about TP efficiency.

ToD is your most efficient single skill (if we count combos as one long "average" of TP). You should always use it.
Demo is obviously your most efficient finisher, and should always be used.

It is (generally) worth it to delay usage of Demo if it is going to fall off in <2-3 seconds if it means using a filler. This is typically going to be either FR or ID. Of course, don't do this if you've already fillered with ToD and are uneasy about possible disconnect from boss in the near future. GL is worth more than anything else.

I would never refresh Demo early. Demo is 210 with 1 clipped tick, and SP is 198 (with relative bonus from DK). This is, again, the 3 second rule. If you can filler without endangering stacks, do it and clip only at <1 second.

You should, always use True strike (if you have TP issues, which you almost always should) unless you know you will need to filler in ToD before the next twin (aka when ToD is not applied or has a duration <~8 seconds). True strike is a decent boost to TP efficiency and the loss in dps is almost negligible (and is nonexistent if you have a <2.0 sec gcd).

ID and FR are both extremely inefficient skills. FR is more efficient than ID by about 15%. In either case, I would only use them during BL or IR.

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Originally Posted by Kijimea

Even though i know monk is a dps machine, THIS is hilarious :D 300dps on Titan(!) lol especially with DL ^^ You know you should check your parser sometimes. Like once i had 40k to dummy and 20k of it was DoT dmg which obviously is totally wrong. According to parser DPS numbers you will never ever get 300dps on Titan, definitly not with DL gear. Your dps in parser will drop everytime he jumps. I would even go as far that u wont do 300 dps on any static fight lasting more than 2 minutes.

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I agree, He either is a lier or his parser is. He can't even get 300 DPS on dummy. A simple math to him, for 300 DPS with 2sec attack speed, his each hit need over 600. The auto attack dmg just barely compensate the time when Titan disappear. Most MNK in Titan just around 100 DPS, good monk over 150 or close to 200. Other class is about 150.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

I agree, He either is a lier or his parser is. He can't even get 300 DPS on dummy. A simple math to him, for 300 DPS with 2sec attack speed, his each hit need over 600. The auto attack dmg just barely compensate the time when Titan disappear. Most MNK in Titan just around 100 DPS, good monk over 150 or close to 200. Other class is about 150.

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I wouldn't say he's a liar... probably a case of misinterpreting parser data, or using a bad parser. Either way, not enough info in the post.

If he/she used XIVapp back when it was very, very inaccurate in most cases then the DPS value would be inflated due to errors in DoT simulation, overlapping values, etc.

The other scenario is, she/she used Logrep, which still has a specific way of presenting data when it comes to instances with multiple targets. It evaluates your DPS value for each target by taking your damage to it and dividing it over the time like expected, however for Total DPS the parser actually adds up the individual DPS values for each target making a number which is not accurate as a DPS average for the instance because... well it's not an average.

Here's a Titan parse of mine from last night:

http://i.imgur.com/tkaLvH9.jpg?1

As you can see my DPS over the instance on Titan is actually 204.28. There's also the heart phase, for which my DPS is 238.05. Of course I break off Titan for any Granite Gaols, but the parser will not distinguish between any specific Gaol as they all share the same name. So my DPS for Gaols is my total damage done on all gaols divided by the duration of the instance pretty much, which the parser evaluates as 23.92.

It simply then sums up all these DPS values to say my DPS for the instance is 466.25. If I didn't know the parser was doing this, and had no real point of reference for what my DPS should be like, I'd come here saying I had 466 DPS on Titan after using Logrep.

Actually, to get a more accurate DPS value for the instance I'd have to first find the exact instance duration. I will do that using my damage and dps values on Titan himself, since the instance begins with the first hit on him and ends when he dies.

102061 dmg / 204.28 dps = 499.6 seconds. That comes out to just over 8 minutes or so, which is in line with what the parser labels the instance duration up top.

So to get my avg DPS for the instance I'd take my total damage for the instance, which is accurate, and divide by 499.6 seconds.

120248 dmg / 499.6 s = 240.7 DPS as a MNK for Titan. Considering I can do 330 DPS on a dummy, and the various GL3 drops and possibility of being jailed associated with Titan, this makes more sense.

P.S: I am in almost full ilvl90 gear (only belt and a ring slot are darklight, the rest melee/allagan) and I was in a merc party with more or less equivalently geared players of other jobs. I did, in fact, top that parse. Not by a landslide, but a reasonable amount.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

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And to add, as I've said before, you can keep up your GL3 all the way through the last phase of Titan. You can also only get jailed 1/8th of the time, so I'd say that is a pretty good chance. On top of that you have 150-200 damage on AAs, crits, your own buffs, and party buffs.

Also i said i used LogRep which now i cannot even make it work anymore. Believe what you want to believe but doing 100-200 DPS as a Monk:confused: and other classes as 150 is just being plain bad.

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Originally Posted by MisakiSatomi

And to add, as I've said before, you can keep up your GL3 all the way through the last phase of Titan. You can also only get jailed 1/8th of the time, so I'd say that is a pretty good chance. On top of that you have 150-200 damage on AAs, your own buffs, and party buffs.

Also i said i used LogRep which now i cannot even make it work anymore. Believe what you want to believe but doing 100-200 DPS as a Monk:confused: and other classes as 150 is just being plain bad.

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As Noctis said, the average dps for logrep doesn't actually show your average damage. Such as his showing 466 dps for his run when his dps is actually 240 dps. So, I think you have a skewed perspective of what average dps should be.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

As Noctis said, the average dps for logrep doesn't actually show your average damage. Such as his showing 466 dps for his run when his dps is actually 240 dps. So, I think you have a skewed perspective of what average dps should be.

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Did you even read all three(including that quote) posts? And also he was actually doing 200-230 DPS, as what is already shown in the image.

And then people hitting 300 Dps on a dummy while Titan can be the same as a dummy.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Considering I can do 330 DPS on a dummy

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Originally Posted by MisakiSatomi

You can also only get jailed 1/8th of the time, so I'd say that is a pretty good chance. On top of that you have 150-200 damage on AAs, crits, your own buffs, and party buffs.

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Originally Posted by MisakiSatomi

I could sustain my GL all the way through the last phase.

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Lastly, GL upkeep through bombs, landslides, and weight of the land is very easy.

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Originally Posted by MisakiSatomi

Did you even read all three(including that quote) posts? And also he was actually doing 200-230 DPS, as what is already shown in the image.

And then people hitting 300 Dps on a dummy while Titan can be the same as a dummy.

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Actually:

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

120248 dmg / 499.6 s = 240.7 DPS as a MNK for Titan

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I'm not saying we're in disagreement. Just making sure I was able to explain myself properly in that post.

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Originally Posted by MisakiSatomi

Did you even read all three(including that quote) posts? And also he was actually doing 200-230 DPS, as what is already shown in the image.

And then people hitting 300 Dps on a dummy while Titan can be the same as a dummy.

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What are you even talking about? I read everything. You said you did 300 dps on Titan which I don't believe. Either your parser is wrong or you read it wrong. Noctis showed how logrep shows the average dps wrongly.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Actually, to get a more accurate DPS value for the instance I'd have to first find the exact instance duration. I will do that using my damage and dps values on Titan himself, since the instance begins with the first hit on him and ends when he dies.

102061 dmg / 204.28 dps = 499.6 seconds. That comes out to just over 8 minutes or so, which is in line with what the parser labels the instance duration up top.

So to get my avg DPS for the instance I'd take my total damage for the instance, which is accurate, and divide by 499.6 seconds.

120248 dmg / 499.6 s = 240.7 DPS as a MNK for Titan. Considering I can do 330 DPS on a dummy, and the various GL3 drops and possibility of being jailed associated with Titan, this makes more sense.

P.S: I am in almost full ilvl90 gear (only belt and a ring slot are darklight, the rest melee/allagan) and I was in a merc party with more or less equivalently geared players of other jobs. I did, in fact, top that parse. Not by a landslide, but a reasonable amount.

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Titan isn't a dummy, you drop GL and you can get jailed. Even great monks can't have dummy dps on him. Did you average your dps for the length of the fight? Averaging your damage over the length of the fight is a much more accurate way of telling your dps than just using the average of the two phases.

He got 240 dps and his gear better than yours, unless you did the lb (and maybe even then!) it's unlikely you hit 300 in earnest. Your parser would've most likely been inaccurate if it does say that.

EDIT: nvm i need to learn to read...

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

EDIT: nvm i need to learn to read...

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http://i.imgur.com/dG5pH8B.png

just let you know this parser is very wrong and lie to everyone. give misleading info.
if you saw for the gardua HM (another HM fight not favor monk). my dps was 561. I can tell the info is completely wrong.
Bard/BLM/Drg dps is about very similar for this fight. BLM can be very high if u count their aoe dps and same to drg and bard.
MNK isn't dps machine but do a good job only for a fight super long. Drg isn't behind MNK and they can be a super DPS too. MNK just a ok dps without any special skill.

If anything this thread has shown. Its who the bad monks are. Im shakin my head at the replies I see on this daily

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Originally Posted by Cynric

If anything this thread has shown. Its who the bad monks are. Im shakin my head at the replies I see on this daily

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you are very funny to say so.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

http://i.imgur.com/dG5pH8B.png

just let you know this parser is very wrong and lie to everyone. give misleading info.
if you saw for the gardua HM (another HM fight not favor monk). my dps was 561. I can tell the info is completely wrong.
Bard/BLM/Drg dps is about very similar for this fight. BLM can be very high if u count their aoe dps and same to drg and bard.
MNK isn't dps machine but do a good job only for a fight super long. Drg isn't behind MNK and they can be a super DPS too. MNK just a ok dps without any special skill.

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You clearly didn't read my long post where I described in detail how to interpret LogRep's output.

Don't confuse your inability to interpret data for parser inaccuracy.

You're making yourself look bad by posting without reading and understanding others. Stop it.

I've concluded, time and time again, that you are one of the worst authorities on MNK and should simply cease to advise anybody regarding the job.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

you are very funny to say so.

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How funny it is that you are one of the people who would respond to that. Did I hit a nerve? Youre 1000 years to early to comment on my Monk skills.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

How funny it is that you are one of the people who would respond to that. Did I hit a nerve? Youre 1000 years to early to comment on my Monk skills.

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this post isn't about who is good or bad. You are not good monk if don't understand other job's strength. what I want to say is mnk isn't dps machine.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

this post isn't about who is good or bad. You are not good monk if don't understand other job's strength. what I want to say is mnk isn't dps machine.

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This thread is all about whos good and who isnt. Monk is amazing dps for competent players. In fact its arguably the best single target dps there is. Thats what we do. Maybe you should learn your own jobs strengths as much as you pretend to know about the others. All I see from certain players in this thread is buff Monk with no actual reasoning behind it. Plenty of Monks top damage with ease, so our damage doesnt suck. Mantra utility is good.

The one thing we all agree on though? One Ilm Punch is terrible right now. Everything else? Fine as is.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You clearly didn't read my long post where I described in detail how to interpret LogRep's output.

Don't confuse your inability to interpret data for parser inaccuracy.

You're making yourself look bad by posting without reading and understanding others. Stop it.

I've concluded, time and time again, that you are one of the worst authorities on MNK and should simply cease to advise anybody regarding the job.

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that parser is very misleading by anyone read it first. yes, I am worst and you are the BEST monk. What's the point here to argue about who is good or not. We discuss if MNK dps is way over other job or not. clearly it is not the truth. some 300 dps on titan fight definitely is wrong info.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

This thread is all about whos good and who isnt. Monk is amazing dps for competent players. In fact its arguably the best single target dps there is. Thats what we do. ..

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come on, get some i90 gear first and group with some real good player before you are talking too much. the title is "Monks very weak. Need re-balance". you can read that right? if you want to say Monk is too strong and Mnk is dps king, you can generate another topic here to see how many DPS agree. you are just insulting people without give much facts. Your point is simple "i am good and you are bad so you feel monk very weak". This just like a child.

Turn out MNK isn't a very popular job all over the servers. there must be a reason. if any job is DPS king, I doubt the population is low. that's just a common sense.

Just because I have.. Oh wait I have 2 pieces of lvl90 gear on right now assuming its updated my lodestone you assume I havent played with people who had more than that? Thats funny. The topic in question holds no value as it isnt true. Monk arent weak. I dps just fine . Monk isnt played much for difficulty reasons and the Monk population as a whole sucking at the job.

And my point is true. Bad monks feel the job sucks because they dont do well with it. Haha Thats very true.

Even maining Monk im hesitant to want to play with a Monk I dont know personally.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

Turn out MNK isn't a very popular job all over the servers. there must be a reason. if any job is DPS king, I doubt the population is low. that's just a common sense.

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Kitty druid in WoW...

Are you a troll or just full of derp?

Rogues in wow as well. One of the lowest represented classes, some of the best dps in the game.

neoreturn, just about everything yove said tonight had already been addressed in this thread, some of it just in these last 2 pages. Learn to read.

Also, common sense is not common.

Troll seems possible but I doubt it. Im pretty sure he beleives the things he says 100% . We went from Monk/Pgl being considered Op throughout beta to a few Monks feeling the job under perfroms. Its kind of sad really.

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Originally Posted by Teeko

Rogues in wow as well. One of the lowest represented classes, some of the best dps in the game.

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See they are so rare I forgot about them. PvP is the big one for rogues... They are deadly in pvp but if you are not really good you will get really dead a really lot.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

Kitty druid in WoW...

Are you a troll or just full of derp?

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don't bring wow, wow is about nerf/buff/nerf. how many times?

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

don't bring wow, wow is about nerf/buff/nerf. how many times?

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So like every MMO, ever?

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Originally Posted by Teeko

So like every MMO, ever?

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you will see mnk get buffed someday. If they didn't, then this topic is whole garbage. a little bit different from wow is , in FFXIV all jobs can be selected from each race.

250 dps on Titan is possible (especially with LB), as it is possible to keep on him almost at all times except when he jumps or become invulnerable (yes, even during bombs). I don't recommended the risk for most people though, as Titan is not even a DPS race except heart phase.

Monks are the king of single target DPS in most fights; however, it is not so high that they can't be easily replaced by another safer DPS. Very little of this game is a DPS race and when it is, any DPS can easily fulfill the requirement. Bards and Black Mages; however, have roles that only they can do or can do significantly better. Helps that they are a ton easier and safer to play.

I like Greased Lightning the way it is. There are things you can try to do to keep ur lightning as long as you can or build it up faster; the last thing I want is classes being dumbed down to the point where any moron can play it to its max effectively. Looking at you Bard.

Also, many people on this thread needs to stop playing Monk, as it's clearly not for them; go play Bard instead.

This topic IS garbage.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

http://i.imgur.com/dG5pH8B.png

just let you know this parser is very wrong and lie to everyone. give misleading info.
if you saw for the gardua HM (another HM fight not favor monk). my dps was 561. I can tell the info is completely wrong.

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It says 165.84 for you actually. People in here doesn't know how to read, or is blind and also clearly doesn't know how to play Monk. This topic is garbage alright.

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Originally Posted by MisakiSatomi

This topic is garbage alright.

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I can agree on that.
Also, he's Neo Anderson the parser, not the You.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

you will see mnk get buffed someday. If they didn't, then this topic is whole garbage. a little bit different from wow is , in FFXIV all jobs can be selected from each race.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

Most MNK in Titan just around 100 DPS, good monk over 150 or close to 200. Other class is about 150.

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Your own words puts us 25% other classes. What more can you want? Any monk with a single 90 piece can break 200.

You are either
1) Trying to prevent a nerf by downgrading us. (Don't worry, I don't think it'll happen)
2) Trolling. (Good job since you seem very sincere)
3) Unable to understand balance. (Since you have seemed to throw around words like 50% dps above which you think we should be at)

I wouldn't mind more utility, but we're not behind anybody in that regard except bard.
Mantra and Dragon Kick (-10% Int for an enemy) are great and reason enough to bring us coupled with our damage.

Also, how many suggestions have even come up with better utility?
It's all lazy (constant gl3) or pure damage buff ideas that have been thrown around (contant gl + everything else - Twin snakes increase to include True Strike)!

A buff I would like to see utility wise would be to change One Ilm Punch to if a target does not have a buff that can be dispelled adds -10% strength or something. Anything to make that skill not completely useless lul. I was going to slash ressistance down but we already kind of have a bit much over dragoon and itd be a shame for us to take their one unique debuff.

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Originally Posted by MisakiSatomi

It says 165.84 for you actually. People in here doesn't know how to read, or is blind and also clearly doesn't know how to play Monk. This topic is garbage alright.

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Yep.

That's my main issue with logrep though -- it's accumulates DPS on multiple targets completely incorrectly. Extremely annoying, because you have to go back and guesstimate the actual fight length then divide the total damage. Don't know why the author of the parser summed the DPS that way. So silly.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

A buff I would like to see utility wise would be to change One Ilm Punch to if a target does not have a buff that can be dispelled adds -10% strength or something. Anything to make that skill not completely useless lul. I was going to slash ressistance down but we already kind of have a bit much over dragoon and itd be a shame for us to take their one unique debuff.

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Don't ask buff any thing, keep your word'this topic is garbage'

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

I can agree on that.
Also, he's Neo Anderson the parser, not the You.





Your own words puts us 25% other classes. What more can you want? Any monk with a single 90 piece can break 200.

You are either
1) Trying to prevent a nerf by downgrading us. (Don't worry, I don't think it'll happen)
2) Trolling. (Good job since you seem very sincere)
3) Unable to understand balance. (Since you have seemed to throw around words like 50% dps above which you think we should be at)

I wouldn't mind more utility, but we're not behind anybody in that regard except bard.
Mantra and Dragon Kick (-10% Int for an enemy) are great and reason enough to bring us coupled with our damage.

Also, how many suggestions have even come up with better utility?
It's all lazy (constant gl3) or pure damage buff ideas that have been thrown around (contant gl + everything else - Twin snakes increase to include True Strike)!

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Same to any other DPS class, 200 DPS isn't hard to achieve.