SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

Who is to say BLU would even be a "Good" normal job also?

I don't trust SE with jobs as ya'll do........... to want them to re-establish jobs? Be careful what you wish for........

What you want, is not always what you get. Devs visions differs from players.

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

Who is to say BLU would even be a "Good" normal job also?

I don't trust SE with jobs as ya'll do........... to want them to re-establish jobs? Be careful what you wish for........

What you want, is not always what you get. Devs visions differs from players.

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As far as BLU is concerned? its already listed as a caster DPS(limited) what actually could they do to it, to make it any worse than 50 spells of the same potency, with different shapes of contact, that sometimes combine with other unrelated spells of different shapes, to do less than double damage? I dont think they could actually butcher it worse than it technically is, besides removing aetherial mimicry(ok so what its ironically more limited than just actually giving BLU proper caster dps traits) to be fair, the potencies are extremely lack luster, and probably because they are working to make it actually be viable. Otherwise, its just grabbing your favorite flavored snowcone, they all are the same, do you want strawberry or blue colored? That'll cost you 220 potency. BTW BLM called , they said they got Flare at level 50, you'll never believe how much potencies it costs, and they can actually use swiftcast/manafont and do 2 of them back to back! Really the only thing thats really different or better about BLU is its apparent stat scaling. It IS pulling impressive damage numbers out with a 1 attack power AF Weapon at 60, that also has the same attack power as the AF at 50, but with 2 materia slots this time guys. This means to me, if it were actually subject to the same stat scaling of other jobs...well.... well...? 1 Magic damage AF weapon at 60? Think about that. Maybe its stats are boosted just to make it viable as opposed to the other caster dps jobs. In fact they have to be, artifically for it to be pulling the damage it even does(comparable, btw).

Anyway, I agree with your mistrust and all, I just think this one time, it might not be something to lose sleep on, really.

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

Who is to say BLU would even be a "Good" normal job also?

I don't trust SE with jobs as ya'll do........... to want them to re-establish jobs? Be careful what you wish for........

What you want, is not always what you get. Devs visions differs from players.

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BLU as limited job is not doing good either if you compared to other job since it's only side content. If it's normal job , more people will actually play it since they can use it to do content that's not outdated

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

As far as BLU is concerned? its already listed as a caster DPS(limited) what actually could they do to it, to make it any worse than 50 spells of the same potency, with different shapes of contact, that sometimes combine with other unrelated spells of different shapes, to do less than double damage? I dont think they could actually butcher it worse than it technically is, besides removing aetherial mimicry(ok so what its ironically more limited than just actually giving BLU proper caster dps traits) to be fair, the potencies are extremely lack luster, and probably because they are working to make it actually be viable. Otherwise, its just grabbing your favorite flavored snowcone, they all are the same, do you want strawberry or blue colored? That'll cost you 220 potency. BTW BLM called , they said they got Flare at level 50, you'll never believe how much potencies it costs, and they can actually use swiftcast/manafont and do 2 of them back to back! Really the only thing thats really different or better about BLU is its apparent stat scaling. It IS pulling impressive damage numbers out with a 1 attack power AF Weapon at 60, that also has the same attack power as the AF at 50, but with 2 materia slots this time guys. This means to me, if it were actually subject to the same stat scaling of other jobs...well.... well...? 1 Magic damage AF weapon at 60? Think about that. Maybe its stats are boosted just to make it viable as opposed to the other caster dps jobs. In fact they have to be, artifically for it to be pulling the damage it even does(comparable, btw).

Anyway, I agree with your mistrust and all, I just think this one time, it might not be something to lose sleep on, really.

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This is also one of my biggest problem with the current BLU skill system, some people say that if we don't get to choose from this huge pool of skills then it's not BLU, when it fact, in an optimized situation you'll only select a set of the best skills, and all the BLUs will have the same set of skills. It's just unavoidable especially in high end raid contents, i'd be alright if they want to streamline the job, cause it won't be that much of a difference, we don't use the current gimmicky skills anyway it doesn't have that much reason to be there.

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Originally Posted by JiSH

This is also one of my biggest problem with the current BLU skill system, some people say that if we don't get to choose from this huge pool of skills then it's not BLU, when it fact, in an optimized situation you'll only select a set of the best skills, and all the BLUs will have the same set of skills. It's just unavoidable especially in high end raid contents, i'd be alright if they want to streamline the job, cause it won't be that much of a difference, we don't use the current gimmicky skills anyway it doesn't have that much reason to be there.

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Exactly what i was hitting on 100%. I have no issues with finding the skills, its super fun, but imagine what skills people take after theyve gotten all 80, im getting close and there are some skills that i will never remove from the bar in almost any situation(surpanaka, fire angon for fast aoe, sonic boom for single target, aetherial mimicry because its just too good) Ironically, even in the carnival i tossed out final sting and self destruct for almost all fights. Off-Guard, peculiar light usually stay, boost/whisper could afford to be a merged skill honestly. etc etc

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Originally Posted by JiSH

This is also one of my biggest problem with the current BLU skill system, some people say that if we don't get to choose from this huge pool of skills then it's not BLU, when it fact, in an optimized situation you'll only select a set of the best skills, and all the BLUs will have the same set of skills. It's just unavoidable especially in high end raid contents, i'd be alright if they want to streamline the job, cause it won't be that much of a difference, we don't use the current gimmicky skills anyway it doesn't have that much reason to be there.

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I agree with you there, since in most FF games all Blue Mages have a fixed set of spells especially in the single player titles. However I would say I disagree as well since the option to pick spells may not be a key thing, but it is a throwback to something as people would say that "We don't get to choose, it is not Blue Mage' is because of FFXI. FFXI was the first FF MMO and it was a memorable MMO hence why they want Blue Mage in FFXIV to be more like FFXI. I agree with them, to a certain extent. Choosing spells is a key thing since Blue Mage have a wide list of spells ranging from weakest to the strongest. The only other reason why I think some would think why they don't want a fixed skill set is the fear that it may follow the other job structure where you learn through leveling, hence why they wanna keep it. I'd still say keep it as so it'll allow people to have the freedom to pick and choose whatever they want, even with optimized spell set no one is going to force them to do that (Other than statics or Party Finder for Savage or Ultimate raiding). This is FFXIV, they can make Blue Mage however they want (NOT A LIMITED JOB) and with what they have right now is a solid base for it to become a normal job.

As for the gimmicky spells, it is just there for the Masked Carnival. Even then they can adjust the Masked Carnival to fit a Blue Mage when it becomes a normal job, since it is a solo instance and it doesn't affect any other jobs but Blue Mage.

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

Who is to say BLU would even be a "Good" normal job also?

I don't trust SE with jobs as ya'll do........... to want them to re-establish jobs? Be careful what you wish for........

What you want, is not always what you get. Devs visions differs from players.

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yeah i have to agree with you there. honestly SE decisions with some of the job adjustment since HW has been a bit questionable. however i agree with some people here that it's currently a wasted resource that needs to be updated separately from the other jobs that updates once every expansion.. which for me means it'll take development slot that could've been used to another content. look at us now with only bozja sustaining us for 2months.. and promise of blue mage getting level 70.. which will probably won't last long either (aside from the full blue raids but those are, again, contents that are quite hard to find people to play with)

In honest opinion I would rather have the same updates as the normal jobs, cause think about it they only need to improve Blue Mage once per expansion with the spells and content rather than in patches and in patches they can adjust the spells and abilities, just like the rest of the normal job as they are being constantly adjusted every patch. Meaning they'll free up more in the budget and time for more variety of end game content rather than wasting resources on a content that is extremely restrictive compared to the normal job system. Obviously with what we have now with Bozja guarantee its going to be barely alive early or mid November and will be active on weekends or when there is a Bozja Clear Party. With Blue Mage for Level 70 I can already see people grinding or power leveling to Level 70 and immediately getting all of the spells with their inner circles or groups of friends rather than using party finder but it'll still be active nonetheless and in about 1/2 weeks done... Even savage for those who already done it before with normal jobs. I can probably guess that it can take 1 week for a group to clear Omega savage if they are a static and if its random well... it really depends if its a dedicated group 1-3 week and if random 1-2 months. I mean you can easily clear Masked Carnival no problem when you have the necessary spells for it, spell collecting has been made faster as the pre-made group can be anything as long there is a one Blue Mage in the party the learn rate is 100%. So really SE has just inadvertently killed Blue Mage in 1/2 weeks with it being a Limited Job. If it were a Normal Job it'll last for a very long time.

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Originally Posted by Alysella

BLU as limited job is not doing good either if you compared to other job since it's only side content. If it's normal job , more people will actually play it since they can use it to do content that's not outdated

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i mean it's fine if they really make it a literal side content. but then they have to assimilate it to a real content like savages, dungeon, which then turns to the 2nd problem where you can't queue if you don't join a full blue party.. i mean i'm not a sociable person myself and i find it really really hard to just gather people to go dungeon with me. even on PF

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Originally Posted by TeraTyrantShadic

In honest opinion I would rather have the same updates as the normal jobs, cause think about it they only need to improve Blue Mage once per expansion with the spells and content rather than in patches and in patches they can adjust the spells and abilities, just like the rest of the normal job as they are being constantly adjusted every patch. Meaning they'll free up more in the budget and time for more variety of end game content rather than wasting resources on a content that is extremely restrictive compared to the normal job system. Obviously with what we have now with Bozja guarantee its going to be barely alive early or mid November and will be active on weekends or when there is a Bozja Clear Party. With Blue Mage for Level 70 I can already see people grinding or power leveling to Level 70 and immediately getting all of the spells with their inner circles or groups of friends rather than using party finder but it'll still be active nonetheless and in about 1/2 weeks done... Even savage for those who already done it before with normal jobs. I can probably guess that it can take 1 week for a group to clear Omega savage if they are a static and if its random well... it really depends if its a dedicated group 1-3 week and if random 1-2 months. I mean you can easily clear Masked Carnival no problem when you have the necessary spells for it, spell collecting has been made faster as the pre-made group can be anything as long there is a one Blue Mage in the party the learn rate is 100%. So really SE has just inadvertently killed Blue Mage in 1/2 weeks with it being a Limited Job. If it were a Normal Job it'll last for a very long time.

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Worst thing about BLU(the current LIMITED job) is how fast they died down, like you said just give it one or two weeks at most and the content will be "dead", it's already bad enough. Not to mention the newcomers that want to try BLU they'll be gated by skill learning, and with each update people who doesn't do BLU on the get go will be left behind more and more. Imagine if they keep the limited job system as it is right now, what's gonna happen by say, the end of next expansion? how are people are ever gonna catch up with this, especially with how PF restricted it is.

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Originally Posted by JiSH

Worst thing about BLU(the current LIMITED job) is how fast they died down, like you said just give it one or two weeks at most and the content will be "dead", it's already bad enough. Not to mention the newcomers that want to try BLU they'll be gated by skill learning, and with each update people who doesn't do BLU on the get go will be left behind more and more. Imagine if they keep the limited job system as it is right now, what's gonna happen by say, the end of next expansion? how are people are ever gonna catch up with this, especially with how PF restricted it is.

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I don't mind if they keep BLU within this scope of Limited Job... I find it fun, actually.

What I do mind is if they once more overlook the fact that BLU is not a truly solo experience. We need people running dungeons to be able to form parties. In the occasion of BLU remaining as it is, they need to figure out a way to inject more activity, and the only way I can see this happening is to having really attractive rewards for the daily and weekly dungeon/trial marks.

And another thing they really need to do is to move the essential spells and Job quest objectives OUT of group content, so people won't hit a wall while leveling due to the lack of players running the dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I don't mind if they keep BLU within this scope of Limited Job... I find it fun, actually.

What I do mind is if they once more overlook the fact that BLU is not a truly solo experience. We need people running dungeons to be able to form parties. In the occasion of BLU remaining as it is, they need to figure out a way to inject more activity, and the only way I can see this happening is to having really attractive rewards for the daily and weekly dungeon/trial marks.

And another thing they really need to do is to move the essential spells and Job quest objectives OUT of group content, so people won't hit a wall while leveling due to the lack of players running the dungeons.

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originally i thought the masked carnivale was a different side-content completely unrelated to the skill collecting(or we get a set of skills option for each floor and we have to work using those) however to even participate in the early stages of masked carnivale we have to get some skills. would be fine if it still under the solo content scope but we actually need to go inside dungeons. aka partying up with people which is a bit hard to find if you're early. lag behind in this phase and you'll lag behind in the future skill collecting. bummer.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I don't mind if they keep BLU within this scope of Limited Job... I find it fun, actually.

What I do mind is if they once more overlook the fact that BLU is not a truly solo experience. We need people running dungeons to be able to form parties. In the occasion of BLU remaining as it is, they need to figure out a way to inject more activity, and the only way I can see this happening is to having really attractive rewards for the daily and weekly dungeon/trial marks.

And another thing they really need to do is to move the essential spells and Job quest objectives OUT of group content, so people won't hit a wall while leveling due to the lack of players running the dungeons.

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yeah, but i think people's perception of BLU being a solo job is a misconception from the get go, since the beginning they're already soft PF locked in a way, you NEED a party to get a guaranteed learn, without a party it'll be just a waste of time. the idea of rewards locked behind BLU content is already there, the Cute Justice Minion and the /headache emote, but it's really back to how they die down after the first wave of people got them. i get that they're trying to make the content more sociable but at the end of the day it just makes it harder for people who can play in their own free time and doesn't have a group of friend that can help them out with the current system of BLU content.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I don't mind if they keep BLU within this scope of Limited Job... I find it fun, actually.

What I do mind is if they once more overlook the fact that BLU is not a truly solo experience. We need people running dungeons to be able to form parties. In the occasion of BLU remaining as it is, they need to figure out a way to inject more activity, and the only way I can see this happening is to having really attractive rewards for the daily and weekly dungeon/trial marks.

And another thing they really need to do is to move the essential spells and Job quest objectives OUT of group content, so people won't hit a wall while leveling due to the lack of players running the dungeons.

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What you find fun, is subjective and it is not other peoples' type of fun. Everyone has their own version of fun.

If you want people to be running Blue Mage in dungeons then let to participate in duty finder and party finder. It opens more option for people to participate rather than limiting to 1 option.

The question is does overworld mobs have a need to do that? I think one way of remedying the problem is that it can be obtain in a job quest, but rather in an instanced battle and not as a reward. A Blue Mage can fight and in that fight they can learn a specific spell. It'll stay true to its core and can still learn from its job quests. Locking spells behind Masked Carnival is not even a good idea, if they made spells obtainable through Trials, Raids and Dungeons then they have to allow it to participate in Duty Finder.

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Originally Posted by TeraTyrantShadic

What you find fun, is subjective and it is not other peoples' type of fun. Everyone has their own version of fun.

If you want people to be running Blue Mage in dungeons then let to participate in duty finder and party finder. It opens more option for people to participate rather than limiting to 1 option.

The question is does overworld mobs have a need to do that? I think one way of remedying the problem is that it can be obtain in a job quest, but rather in an instanced battle and not as a reward. A Blue Mage can fight and in that fight they can learn a specific spell. It'll stay true to its core and can still learn from its job quests. Locking spells behind Masked Carnival is not even a good idea, if they made spells obtainable through Trials, Raids and Dungeons then they have to allow it to participate in Duty Finder.

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i think at the end of the because of that subjectivity SE can't really please everyone, because of how deep they are in this limited job shenanigans, at least for Blue Mage they can make it both Limited and Normal job at the same time, though i'm not really keen of another limited job down the line, especially Beastmaster because personally i think we need another pet job so there's a variation to Summoner. I can't even imagine if they make Corsair a limited job to play in the Gold Saucer lmao

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Originally Posted by JiSH

I can't even imagine if they make Corsair a limited job to play in the Gold Saucer lmao

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Dont tempt them man, they even have setzers coat in the GS

I mean I just recently posted on a Beastmaster thread and already they are using a Limited Job to try and implement it. Honestly the option would be better if everyone can enjoy casual to raiders regardless. I already posted there and proved that limited job is not needed for beastmaster and even then they have yet to address the pet system... we need that fixed before anything else and I would prefer no more limited jobs. I mean even without limited job, normal jobs can have their own exclusive content. If they done it for fisher you may as well make Blue Mage normal and make Masked Carnival Like Ocean Fishing.

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Originally Posted by TeraTyrantShadic

I mean I just recently posted on a Beastmaster thread and already they are using a Limited Job to try and implement it. Honestly the option would be better if everyone can enjoy casual to raiders regardless. I already posted there and proved that limited job is not needed for beastmaster and even then they have yet to address the pet system... we need that fixed before anything else and I would prefer no more limited jobs. I mean even without limited job, normal jobs can have their own exclusive content. If they done it for fisher you may as well make Blue Mage normal and make Masked Carnival Like Ocean Fishing.

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Yeah i saw that post, personally dont see why people want limited jobs in the capacity that we've seen BLU for now(waiting for the update before making a conclusive decision on its direction). But maybe they're hoping it will start with a 80 cap and not be as hard off as BLU initial existance was. Saw some interesting ideas though, one was suggesting making it more like FFV tamer, by collecting the defeated enemy and using it like an item in battle for a big attack. Another one wanted to do this, but have the item sort of turn you into a shapeshifter for a while. Personally i see limited jobs eventually becoming normal jobs, it just seems like a waste if they maintain the "almost relevant but not quite relevant content to do solo, but still needs a party really"

In all honesty, people need to be creative without the use of Limited Jobs. Because all it is about is spamming skills rather than getting creative with a job gauge. Imagine the different possibilities if jobs have their own unique job gauges. While they all use the same system which is the build up gauge, however they all do different things and have different unique combos/rotations and that what makes normal jobs fun. With Blue Mage I am just spamming and doing a burst rotation, upkeeping song of torment, which is almost similar to Summoner 2.0.

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Originally Posted by TeraTyrantShadic

In all honesty, people need to be creative without the use of Limited Jobs. Because all it is about is spamming skills rather than getting creative with a job gauge. Imagine the different possibilities if jobs have their own unique job gauges. While they all use the same system which is the build up gauge, however they all do different things and have different unique combos/rotations and that what makes normal jobs fun. With Blue Mage I am just spamming and doing a burst rotation, upkeeping song of torment, which is almost similar to Summoner 2.0.

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Yeah the filler phases are pretty bad on BLU, which i think could benefit with actually having a gauge or spell chain system added in(besides white knights/black knights and only if the debuff wasnt resisted). But again i was ok with 2.0 BLM, and Enochian kind of scared me away from it in HW. BLU really doesnt need much though, obviously people keep the primal skills on perma bar, and usually only switch the few skill slots left for healing, tanking or more damage. At least thats what i find myself doing. I've noticed that outside the Carnival, im only really swapping a few skills out, because the obvious choices are obvious. Dunno why people feel it needs over 100 identical spells, when the reality is, by the end of it all, it probably has a very identical choice of skills, with a couple filler depending on role. Can't really say im all that surprised either, i figured it was going to happen to be the case.

Which goes back to my point that limited Job is obsolete.
Plus if I have to repeat my old points I will.

What they stated back in 2018 has already been contradicted with what has been added in 5.15. In 5.4 if more new stuff is added especially for group play then it is bound to be a normal job.