Here's why I will not support this healer strike.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

I won't go in that thread, its full of negativity and even if I did call her out you guys would have jumped on me for some reason or another, I have completely written that thread off as trollbait and I am not interested in it, I would advise all other people to avoid it aswell but I am not their representative and I don't speak for them nor do they speak for me.

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I mean whether you go into that thread or not is irrelevant to my question

She opened with vitriol for zero reason, she isn’t the only one. Why are “they” allowed to be vitriolic but the strikers are all evil vitriolic trolls who want everyone else to suffer

You can’t really be holier than thou when you have a clear bias, both sides are being vitriolic but you are certainly only calling out one side, and if you called out “your” side and people still jumped on you that’s on them, you certainly haven’t really painted yourself in a favourable light but I mean it’s also not on me to judge; I haven’t been vitriolic I simply debate with people, is that so much to ask of the “other” side

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

You cannot argue against homogenization yet demand another dps spamming job that ignores the entire point of its self. The job will not change in the way you want. Sage is the closest thing we have and I dislike sage for that exact reason. What allures me to sch is "consequence" that should I waste my charges on dps I will suffer later for it. But that I can use my skill in the fight to better make those decisions. Sadly i think dt has ruined it but I haven't played it yet.

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I 100% agree with you on what draws you to SCH because that’s exactly what draws me to SCH. My problem with your point so to speak is that saying “another DPS job that ignores the entire point of itself” is exactly what all 4 healers already are and they do it in exactly the same way (1 nuke 1 dot, 1-2 flavour abilities. The healers physically cannot be homogenised further on that point, SGE and SCH are also ridiculously similar on the healing side as well.

I agree that if all healers were turned into the same flavour of DPS it would be homogenisation, but my belief is they are already there so what’s the difference in trying

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean whether you go into that thread or not is irrelevant to my question

She opened with vitriol for zero reason, she isn’t the only one. Why are “they” allowed to be vitriolic but the strikers are all evil vitriolic trolls who want everyone else to suffer

You can’t really be holier than thou when you have a clear bias, both sides are being vitriolic but you are certainly only calling out one side, and if you called out “your” side and people still jumped on you that’s on them, you certainly haven’t really painted yourself in a favourable light but I mean it’s also not on me to judge; I haven’t been vitriolic I simply debate with people, is that so much to ask of the “other” side

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The only side im on is my own, I don't speak for those against you and they dont speak for me, don't try lumping us all in one basket, it is not my place or responsibility to rail people in you dont like or find vitriolic, that is your issue to deal with.

The only reason you feel I have painted myself into an unfavourable light is because I speak plainly, I have no interest in molly coddling anyone, everyone is acting like children and you are meant to be adults, it's a video game ffs, I have quit video games im not happy with or dislike greatly and relegated them to the back burner, a video game is not my life and half of you are acting like your life is in danger with how you've approached the entire "strike".

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean whether you go into that thread or not is irrelevant to my question

She opened with vitriol for zero reason, she isn’t the only one. Why are “they” allowed to be vitriolic but the strikers are all evil vitriolic trolls who want everyone else to suffer

You can’t really be holier than thou when you have a clear bias, both sides are being vitriolic but you are certainly only calling out one side, and if you called out “your” side and people still jumped on you that’s on them, you certainly haven’t really painted yourself in a favourable light but I mean it’s also not on me to judge; I haven’t been vitriolic I simply debate with people, is that so much to ask of the “other” side

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This argument is over now. If this is all that remains of the substance then I'm finished engaging with you. In the end this is exactly how I knew this would go.

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I agree that if all healers were turned into the same flavour of DPS it would be homogenisation, but my belief is they are already there so what’s the difference in trying

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Your counter argument amounts to little more than. "Why not" when you have tanks as the exact reason as to why not. The off tank in 99% of fights can be swapped for a dps and nothing is lost. Look at rubicante ex

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Originally Posted by Sadebreth

You read way too many guides. You also have a dps meter in your game don't you? Tell me one dungeon below extreme, of which are optional, that REQUIRES a healer to DPS? I have played this game since commercial release and the rage timers for regular and hard are not bad enough that a healer needs to dps anything. If a healer didn't have ANY ability to dps they wouldn't get past level 1. Use your damage to do quests.

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So you just moved the goalpost. Also since you play since comercial release, you would probably remember Hard Fractal Continuum in Sb. That boss had an ''hard'' enrage for a dungeon and would require healer to dps unless you had Dps going out of their way to play ''optimaly''. That aside i'm sure a few trial with enrage can be impossible at lowest item level possible if the whole group don't contribute with damage. Will I never wiped to it, I'm pretty sure the new Ultima weapon would probably wipe a group with minimum iLevel if the healer don't dps. That aside, I don't see why asking healer to dps is ''elitist'' like let be honest here, should they be afk-ing in the background or wasting mana healing people who are already full of something?

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

This argument is over now. If this is all that remains of the substance then I'm finished engaging with you. In the end this is exactly how I knew this would go. Your counter argument amounts to little more than. "Why not" when you have tanks as the exact reason as to why not. The off tank in 99% of fights can be swapped for a dps and nothing us lost. Look at rubicante

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Anyone wanna chime in and tell me what I did wrong this time

The conclusion I drew from my own analysis was proposing a solution that give everyone rez items to create redundancy for healer, which is currently the only role without a redundancy. Redundancy is key because otherwise healer has the greatest risk of being blamed for single point of failure.

The other conclusion drawn from people in the strike thread was that terrible healers should be kicked and that comment was immediately deleted by mods. There has been a lot of snark to similar effect of "skill issue." It doesn't help the strike advocates that the conclusions drawn from this group do not seem to consider SEs legitimate concerns about player retention and appealing to the silent majority.

People who have benefit of raid statics and general lack of exposure to the vagaries of duty finder, and general low tolerance for perceived poor gameplay, are a vocal minority but SE corporate knows better and you can't be surprised that SE has not really catered to you because this is a business and the market has spoken. If you want change its not arguing skill issue, it's understanding what SEs bottom line is and finding a solution that also keeps in mind the silent majority.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

So you just moved the goalpost. Also since you play since comercial release, you would probably remember Hard Fractal Continuum in Sb. That boss had an ''hard'' enrage for a dungeon and would require healer to dps unless you had Dps going out of their way to play ''optimaly''. That aside i'm sure a few trial with enrage can be impossible at lowest item level possible if the whole group don't contribute with damage. Will I never wiped to it, I'm pretty sure the new Ultima weapon would probably wipe a group with minimum iLevel if the healer don't dps. That aside, I don't see why asking healer to dps is ''elitist'' like let be honest here, should they be afk-ing in the background or wasting mana healing people who are already full of something?

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Way back in the day, depending on how far back, dungeons were harder. They tweaked them because they were losing too many players due to the difficulty. TODAY, however, the regular and hard dungeons are not as bad as you are making them seem. Back then it was too hard for healers to just concentrate on healing and they complained just like you are now. They made most of the dungeons MUCH easier and tweaked the item levels for them. The issue went away and players started playing again. There is absolutely NO WAY to make everyone happy. You do something for someone, and it will upset someone else. The only thing you can do is choose the lesser of 2 evils and move on.

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Originally Posted by Auteur

The conclusion I drew from my own analysis was proposing a solution that give everyone rez items to create redundancy for healer, which is currently the only role without a redundancy. Redundancy is key because otherwise healer has the greatest risk of being blamed for single point of failure.

The other conclusion drawn from people in the strike thread was that terrible healers should be kicked and that comment was immediately deleted by mods. There has been a lot of snark to similar effect of "skill issue." It doesn't help the strike advocates that the conclusions drawn from this group do not seem to consider SEs legitimate concerns about player retention and appealing to the silent majority.

People who have benefit of raid statics and general lack of exposure to the vagaries of duty finder, and general low tolerance for perceived poor gameplay, are a vocal minority but SE corporate knows better and you can't be surprised that SE has not really catered to you because this is a business and the market has spoken. If you want change its not arguing skill issue, it's understanding what SEs bottom line is and finding a solution that also keeps in mind the silent majority.

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You had 6 seperate people tell you that our issue is with the ceiling of healers and not the floor and your answer to that was “until you can GUARANTEE the floor won’t drop if the ceiling goes up it’s a dead proposal”

What’s the point of coming onto this thread and lying that you were attacked when people can just go into the other thread and read that people didn’t respond the way you are saying they did here

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Originally Posted by Sadebreth

You read way too many guides. You also have a dps meter in your game don't you? Tell me one dungeon below extreme, of which are optional, that REQUIRES a healer to DPS? I have played this game since commercial release and the rage timers for regular and hard are not bad enough that a healer needs to dps anything. If a healer didn't have ANY ability to dps they wouldn't get past level 1. Use your damage to do quests.

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I don't think dead ends wouldnt be a particularly fun dng to play without a healer to remove the doom. Lost city and aurum Vale is also utter chaos. But then early arr dng handled it better

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You had 6 seperate people tell you that our issue is with the ceiling of healers and not the floor and your answer to that was “until you can GUARANTEE the floor won’t drop if the ceiling goes up it’s a dead proposal”

What’s the point of coming onto this thread and lying that you were attacked when people can just go into the other thread and read that people didn’t respond the way you are saying they did here

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There is literally a deleted comment in the middle of page 598 since one of the pro strikes concluded terrible healers should be kicked from raids after advocating for healers increasing stakes. My response was this is not persuasive at all and definitely won't convince SE.