Why is everyone anxious about a PLD Rework?

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

the problem with that idea is that the devs want every job to be able to clear every content, so the bosses will always be designed around any party comp (that first the proper role distribution) having the necessary tools to overcome the mechanics, so at the end of the day, that "unique utility" ends up never being relevant. Cover is the perfect example of this

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But you can see with healers that fights have to be designed around one barrier one pure, both healers generally have different utility kits. With tanks they have different invuls, sustain ect. I think in general that's actually fine and fun, most people play tanks/healers for their utility and not simply damage rotations.

I think when a tank (lets use PLD as a example) has extra utility, it helps a lot in "Progression" to have certain mitigation tools to help if something went wrong (like a vun stack), a tank that's more beefy in general might help save some resources for healers and make the run a bit smoother.

I think you're downplaying how utility can effect the game, SCH speed boost is another example it's unique to the scholar, but its generally nice to have around even if not required to beat the fight.

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

the problem with that idea is that the devs want every job to be able to clear every content, so the bosses will always be designed around any party comp (that first the proper role distribution) having the necessary tools to overcome the mechanics, so at the end of the day, that "unique utility" ends up never being relevant. Cover is the perfect example of this

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And so is Raise, yet 6 or so jobs have it. Almost nobody plays perfectly. And those who did needed to get there in the first place. It doesn't make sense to pretend everyone does and then remove stuff only to shaft the rest.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

And so is Raise, yet 6 or so jobs have it. Almost nobody plays perfectly. And those who did needed to get there in the first place. It doesn't make sense to pretend everyone does and then remove stuff only to shaft the rest.

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all the healers have the exact same utility skill (raise)? yeah, that's what i mean.
now imagine if only one of the healers had raise, how bad that would be for balance

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

all the healers have the exact same utility skill (raise)? yeah, that's what i mean.
now imagine if only one of the healers had raise, how bad that would be for balance

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True, but that's not what I said. You mentioned Cover. I'm just pointing out the same can be said about Raise. We shouldn't listen exclusively to people who only care about numbers. The end result ist just boring for the rest. I'd rather have fun jobs to play than 'perfect' balance, that isn't even achievable in the first place unless every job plays identical. Shouldn't give SE any ideas. Haha

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Originally Posted by Espon

So what does Goring Blade do now that it no longer applies a DoT? Apply a 10% Fight or Flight?

I'm guessing Bulwark will be 100% block chance for 10 seconds or something on a 1 min CD since Holy Sheltron now just reduces damage taken.

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My guess is that we're going to get Divine Might out of it, and it's going to stack up to 3/4 times. Essentially, what this does is give PLD a big hit before Requiescat during FoF; but the question becomes now how are they going to change the potencies around? The one thing that stood out in terms of damage contribution for PLD was DoTs, since that contributed at least 25% of PLD's damage from the Blade DoT and the Goring DoT. With those gone, we now have to chalk it up to pure potency and figure out our rotation that provides the most damage.

FoF sounds like it's still in for the most part, however by removing DoTs it's not longer heavily weighted on whether we get the DoT on the end of FoF or not(which was a major issue due to Atonement Drift); it's about how much potency we squeeze into the rotation now. This doesn't get rid of the 18s opener though. On reopening we still are stuck with the Blade combo since that's our strongest raw potency that we can provide, with Confiteor at the staggering 1,000 potency. With the Blade DoT gone, they'll probably buff the end of the combo to be close to Confiteor, but probably 100 - 150 potency below it to accomodate for the missing DoT damage.

This is only a hypothetical on what information we have so far, but on the 10th of January we'll be able to see what they truly did to PLD's rotation.

Also, about Bulwark - it's going to be 100% Block Chance. It has to be. Bulwark back then provided 60% Block Chance before it got trashed with the big reset in Shadowbringers. Considering they've been running on us having 100% Block Chance with Sheltron from Shadowbringers onward, I doubt they'd put Blocking at what it was before. As others have been relating it to Camouflage(Parrying, which goes up to 15% reduction), Blocking(Max 20% Reduction) has a higher max reduction and makes it different. The long-needed addition of a 4th personal mitigation was what we've wanted the most, especially in regards to DoT Tankbusters and autos after that the other three tanks have a response to.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Also, about Bulwark - it's going to be 100% Block Chance. It has to be. Bulwark back then provided 60% Block Chance before it got trashed with the big reset in Shadowbringers. Considering they've been running on us having 100% Block Chance with Sheltron from Shadowbringers onward, I doubt they'd put Blocking at what it was before. As others have been relating it to Camouflage(Parrying, which goes up to 15% reduction), Blocking(Max 20% Reduction) has a higher max reduction and makes it different. The long-needed addition of a 4th personal mitigation was what we've wanted the most, especially in regards to DoT Tankbusters and autos after that the other three tanks have a response to.

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With Sheltron going to flat % mitigation to cover 'haha this has a bleed too' TBs like current tier, it would make perfect sense to me for bulwark to be 100% blockrate as a 90s CD, to be the 'tertiary' CD alongside Camo/Thrill and Dark Mind (though that one's a 60s). I can't see them having PLD have 'a chance to block' and not taking the obvious design route of 'this is a CD that makes you block more often'

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

We shouldn't listen exclusively to people who only care about numbers. The end result ist just boring for the rest. I'd rather have fun jobs to play than 'perfect' balance, that isn't even achievable in the first place unless every job plays identical. Shouldn't give SE any ideas. Haha

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You complain about people caring only about numbers, but really what else are we supposed to care about? If you're a warrior player your job has already reached braindead gameplay in ShB and other jobs are quickly following suit, so when 75% of it consists of mindlessly hammering your basic combo what else are you supposed to care about?

The fight for gameplay that isn't sleep inducing is already lost and you watched all the people who only touch your job for expert roulette applaud when all it's nuance died.


If my choice is between awful gameplay+bad damage or awful gameplay+good damage you can bet I'm going to complain about numbers.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

You complain about people caring only about numbers, but really what else are we supposed to care about? If you're a warrior player your job has already reached braindead gameplay in ShB and other jobs are quickly following suit, so when 75% of it consists of mindlessly hammering your basic combo what else are you supposed to care about?

The fight for gameplay that isn't sleep inducing is already lost and you watched all the people who only touch your job for expert roulette applaud when all it's nuance died.


If my choice is between awful gameplay+bad damage or awful gameplay+good damage you can bet I'm going to complain about numbers.

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It's funny, we called it braindead in ShB. But it's like preparing your doctorate thesis compared to what we have now. I'm impressed they managed to make WAR *that* dumbed down. If you're going to take away every meaningful opportunity for the player to screw up and lose significant amounts of DPS then you really should just make the combat completely automatic and make it purely based off of executing mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

It's funny, we called it braindead in ShB. But it's like preparing your doctorate thesis compared to what we have now. I'm impressed they managed to make WAR *that* dumbed down. If you're going to take away every meaningful opportunity for the player to screw up and lose significant amounts of DPS then you really should just make the combat completely automatic and make it purely based off of executing mechanics.

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from what i've heard DSR is the hardest encounter ever even though people are playing "brainded jobs that are impossible to screw up", so...

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

all the healers have the exact same utility skill (raise)? yeah, that's what i mean.
now imagine if only one of the healers had raise, how bad that would be for balance

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Jobs such as tanks and healers should share the same baseline utility, such as mits, raises, heals, sustain, Tank stance, prevoke but they can also differ in other areas. Raise is pretty much a role action on healers with a repaint anyway, so I don't understand this point.