MSQ Needs Further Condensing

they shortened the ARR part because it had by far the most filler quests to pad out the game back when it was released. every subsequent expansion had less less overall pre and post msq story quests because they knew it was too much.
i don't know why i'm even responding to you because you're obviously just trolling at this point.

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Originally Posted by Reyketi

SE themselves decided that the MSQ was a barrier-to-entry for new customers, and as a consequence shortened it.

That's probably not indicative of an extremely small percentage of players.

It cost them probably hundreds of thousands of dollars to modify the MSQ to its current state.

That is an investment they made, in an attempt to raise their profit margins.

That margin wouldn't move much if it were only an "extremely small percentage" of players.

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But again, this was because basically everybody was saying that ARR was tedious. It was not even a divisive topic. They had the numbers showing at what point people stopped playing (2.1, or around Aurum Vale were two examples provided by the dev team).
Again, give the option for the new players to skip ARR for free, and give them a 'the story so far' cutscene, and all good. This way they can access level 50 content, and pretty much see what the game has to offer.
ARR is still the main issue IMO.

All the expansions have filler but I think it is ok to first make ARR free to skip before thinking about it.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

But again, this was because basically everybody was saying that ARR was tedious. It was not even a divisive topic. They had the numbers showing at what point people stopped playing (2.1, or around Aurum Vale were two examples provided by the dev team).
Again, give the option for the new players to skip ARR for free, and give them a 'the story so far' cutscene, and all good. This way they can access level 50 content, and pretty much see what the game has to offer.
ARR is still the main issue IMO.

All the expansions have filler but I think it is ok to first make ARR free to skip before thinking about it.

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Aside from one or 2 events, 2.1 onward of ARR was forgettable at best, at least in my opinion. They could make Leviathan and Ramuh storylines optional, much like the Binding Coil of Bahamut, and maybe keep Crystalis and Shiva onward. Seriously, Levi and Ramuh didn't add much. lol The story would still be there for those who pursue it, but it would cut down on a little more time that new players spend in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Reyketi

I have had this debate in multiple locations, including other venues that are not this forum.

Those against condensing the MSQ have always been the most hostile, and snarky, no matter the OP's or other poster's degree of civility, and or cordialness.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

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Heyo, perhaps you misconstrued that. It's fine, it was a pretty vague statement, intentionally so: I never mentioned names nor sides. For good reason: It's up to you to evaluate how you've been responding, as well as up to everyone else. ^-^

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Originally Posted by Kamatsu

You know, you likely would get way, way more support from everyone if instead of asking SE to spend dev time butchering the MSQ further and further each expansion... just for the small % of players who only want to grind dungeons/raids/trials... if you instead asked SE to allow new accounts 1 free story & class skip on their 1st character.

This would enable new players to skip to the current expansion on 1 class for free, play with their friends and shorten the time to endgame grind. If they want to skip more classes or characters through msq... they can then pay for it.

I'd say you'd get more support for this, a once off story & class skip for new accounts, than continually pushing for the central aspect of the game (FF story) to be butchered for an extremely small % of MMO players.

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I just don't think that's true. Why do I think that? Here, for reference:

Over a year and a half ago..
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...nsion-Problems

I simply didn't want to pay for a story skip, right? I even went so far as to make up an imaginary friend, so I could push for a free skip?!


Some real bangers:
64 likes on this one. I can see why!

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Originally Posted by Aristotle

If you don't like the idea of a skip potion, what is it exactly you are proposing they do to fix this, if not allow players to skip content? Or is it just the fact that you have to pay for it?

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What would you guys do with this opinion?! Is against skips, but.. wait.. wants the story to be condensed?!

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

a part of me feels like skip potions shouldn't be available to brand new accounts in the first place. Those tools by themselves do have a purpose and are entirely justifiable if one is trying to make an alt, but a new player who has no pre-existing experience with the game doing it kinda rubs me the wrong way.

That said, yes early content does have issues. However, no problem is ever solved by pretending it doesn't exist and skipping past it. What could be done is some parts of AAR being streamlined the way that Crystal Tower's introductory questline was in a recent patch, adding shortcuts and alternative paths that allow players the option to skip all the no longer necessary padding without missing out on the necessary learning experience and major plot points.

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I know you all will probably LOVE this opinion. Give it a like! Go on!

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Originally Posted by Kalise

If people feel the need to skip that to get to the end-game grinds... Then they really do need to consider why they're playing this game as opposed to one of the other ones that caters to that gameplay better.

It's sort of like buying a book, then just reading the last chapter and saying "Well, I can read the rest of it later" but then you've only got the Epilogue left to actually read, which can be decent, but will always pale in comparison to you know, actually reading the story proper throughout the entire book.

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As you can see, I had made up my "friend", because I didn't have the best interests of the game's target audience at heart! How despicable of me!

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

Who is this "new player" you speak of? You claim be talking about a general issue affecting all new players, but you've made it clear that you aren't one, and the friend you used as an example doesn't seem to appreciate the vast majority of content the game offers. At this point, I'm not convinced that you have the best interests of the game's target audience at heart.

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Go on shower it with likes!

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

... probably isn't who this game is made for. And that's perfectly okay because the MMO market offers them an overabundance of alternatives.

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Enough. I am tired of reading this. Long story short. Nothing will ever be received well when it comes to any sort of criticism to this game's story. Period. Sorry. Me having the audacity to suggest a free story skip would be beyond too far.

Gotta love it when someone gets salty over other peoples opinions and has a go at people for liking those posts...

In all seriousness though, the ARR story is still a bit of a drag. I can see why people want to skip it, but it has so much world building in it.
While I don't think all new players should just be able to skip straight to endgame (the lack of experience alone would cause a ton of issues, not being able to recognise telegraphs, etc.) they could offer a one-time new player package, that includes one level boost and a story skip for half price or something, because if you're getting one you really need the other with it.

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Originally Posted by Reyketi

SE themselves decided that the MSQ was a barrier-to-entry for new customers, and as a consequence shortened it.
That's probably not indicative of an extremely small percentage of players.
It cost them probably hundreds of thousands of dollars to modify the MSQ to its current state.
That is an investment they made, in an attempt to raise their profit margins.
That margin wouldn't move much if it were only an "extremely small percentage" of players.
Best Wishes
-Reyketi

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As other's have noted - that part of ARR and the ARR-HW section had been complained by many ppl for years, including story-focused players. That being cut doesn't mean anything regarding other sections being cut. Regarding margins - you're asking for them to constantly cut their margins to cut MSQ for what is known to be an extremely small % of MMO players.

I do find it quite telling that you 100% ignored my suggestion - a suggestion that would solve the issue that you & StormChurro have brought up, while not costing SE anything (since the lost revenue from Story&Class skip would likely be less than cost of constantly having to butcher the MSQ each expansion), would most likely get majority support from both new 'raid' players and established core 'story' players,and instead keep pushing for the MSQ to be butchered further each expansion.

BTW. History has shown that players who prefer to ignore a MMO's story and rush to end game *are* a extremely small percent". WoW, Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, STO, ESO, & LotRO have all shown (via Dev comments, finincial statements, etc) that the hardcore / raiding / skip-story types amount to 5-15% of their playerbase. So 85-95% of MMO players do not care to rush to endgame, do not care to bypass story for endgame raiding. I'm sorry, but in any normal world 5-15% of a population is classified as an 'extremely small to small percent".

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Enough. I am tired of reading this. Long story short. Nothing will ever be received well when it comes to any sort of criticism to this game's story. Period. Sorry. Me having the audacity to suggest a free story skip would be beyond too far.

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This is exactly what I suggested. In regards to this, I agree - SE should offer new accounts a once off option to receive 1 story skip & 1 class skip on their 1st character. This way players like you & Reyketi & such who do not want to deal with the MSQ and just start off with the current expansion (to get quicker to endgame content, or to play current expansion with friends) can do so... but if they want to do it with any other classes/characters they would then have to pay for it.

Never thought you, or anyone else, were making up friends quitting. Also regarding the comments you posted - as the saying goes, you can't satisfy everyone. Sadly no matter what is proposed... you will find ppl objecting to it. The key here (IMO) is to stay focused on options that hurt the least - ie doesn't remove story for story players, doesn't cost SE profits, doesn't force ppl into doing stuff they don't want to, etc.

Personally I've always been more fond of the 1 free story/class skip for new accounts on 1st character. Especially now we have the MSQ funny on NG+ - which means that they can always work through the games story when they have time to so and not doing something else. This doesn't remove story, doesn't force players into doing story who don't want to (well, apart from current expansion story), and likely won't cost SE anything (RoI of new players staying & no spending on MSQ cutting vs RoI of story/class kips but with constant cost of cutting MSQ each expansion).

@Kamatsu: I honestly agree with your solution. Give it once for free so that people could theoretically skip it at some point and otherwise people should pay for it. This way all of us that enjoy the story dont have to suffer unnecessary cuts from the MSQ. (But I do agree that at least 2.0 MSQ was in need of a trim, any other expansion should be fine imo)

Also about cutting certain character interaction out...I mean everyone enjoys different characters. How should SE even decide what to cut? Just because you dont like Graha Tia does not mean that others dont. I dont like a lot of the scions or at least I am neutral towards them. I would not go and say that any interaction with anyone other than the twins should be cut out of the MSQ because even if I personally dont like them they are still a major part of the story. What if the cut suddenly includes characters that you like? Would that be great?

As someone that loves a good story it was one of the selling points. I tried out WoW once a few years ago but when I found out that you basically cant really get through the story as it once was any interest vanished. Others might like it that way and thats fine. Isnt it great that games try to set different focus on something? With that you just might be able to find your game that fits your playstyle the most. I for once dont like PVP much so I would not just buy an MMO that is mostly focused on that and then complain that the devs should turn it into a PVE game so that I can play it. And the good thing with FF14 is, that you can simply skip the cutscenes and then enjoy endgame.

And before someone turns my words around: That does not mean that a game should not be criticized. I am someone that likes to point out the bad stuff that in my eyes happens in this game. Just like I agreed that parts of the ARR was just bad. But there is a difference in disagreeing with some systems and wanting the core game to change.

Also because we have the "evidence" that people stop playing because of the story, here are my own two cents about it: I had people in my old FC who rushed through the story to get to the good stuff..most of those stopped playing quite fast since there is barely anything at endgame other than raiding...so they really saw that after you reach max level its all just a grind. One even complained that his gear is now outdated after the new patch. Honestly for me this is the biggest problem. As soon as you reach that endgame you have nothing much to do. If you dont do savage or ultimate or simply dont have the time for it, all that is left is grinding for a relic (which comes later and later in each expansion) or hoping that gathering and crafting will be something you like. IMO FF14 is not in need of condensing the MSQ but giving people more to do after they reach the end of it. We need more longtime content for max players. With that you wont hurt those that enjoy the story and also give those that want to go to endgame something to look forward to.

For those interested in endgame numbers, there is something called the Lucky Bancho. And no matter how many claim that at least in NA or EU endgame is the true goal the numbers show that its not true because only a small percent of the playerbase in NA and EU have even cleared the current raid.

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Originally Posted by Kamatsu

This way players like you.. who do not want to deal with the MSQ and just start off with the current expansion (to get quicker to endgame content, or to play current expansion with friends) can do so... but if they want to do it with any other classes/characters they would then have to pay for it.

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https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6c/ce...0a97df37a4.gif

This has never applied to me! Just because I advocate for something doesn't mean it is for myself! I started this game years ago during HW with the trial, I almost immediately went and purchased HW, and soon after switched my highlander to au ra. I liked this game from the start. I don't skip ANY dialogue, whether it be side OR MSQ. I read every single line of dialogue available INCLUDING before you turn in quests, or initiate a dialogue (the NPC's standing around). I have NEVER used a skip. Not once. Not a level skip, NOT a story skip. I do not care for them, they offer NOTHING for me. I'd rather level my classes myself. Manually. Even my alt, I leveled MANUALLY. This applies FOR EVERY MMO GAME I have ever even played. When I go to a cash shop, you know what I purchase? OUTFITS...

I literally don't know how many times I have explained this.. A person can have MULTIPLE opinions, and approach topics differently. Not everybody views everything ONE WAY, AND NO having a different opinion DOESN'T MEAN THE GAME ISN'T FOR YOU. I DO NOT have a personal investment in a condensed story OR any kind of skips. I play this game SOLO. I am literally the stereotypical FFXIV player. I am heavily invested in the story, and spend all my money on outfits, and fantasias. I spent $60 on fantasias ALONE this month. I purchased two of them to change my characters height by 5 and change my diety, back and forth. Literally. It shows you exactly where my priorities are. I still have three classes to get to 80 (PLD, MNK, BLM). I could have bought a level skip at any time (my PLD is level NOTHING), but I prefer to level them myself. I didn't even buy ANY of the beast tribe mounts during the moogle events, because I would rather earn them the normal way - through leveling up my beast tribes! The whole assumption that I wouldn't want to pay for a story skip, because I am intimidated by the price tag it is RIDICULOUS. It's laughable. I just don't PERSONALLY see the worth of skipping story that I want to go through, OR skipping the leveling process. I have wasted going on thousands of dollars on this game. Literally wasted. Two of the fantasias this month I bought just to switch immediately off of, because I didn't like the look! UGH.. But I digress..

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Originally Posted by Kamatsu

BTW. History has shown that players who prefer to ignore a MMO's story and rush to end game *are* a extremely small percent". WoW, Guild Wars 2, SW:TOR, STO, ESO, & LotRO have all shown (via Dev comments, finincial statements, etc) that the hardcore / raiding / skip-story types amount to 5-15% of their playerbase. So 85-95% of MMO players do not care to rush to endgame, do not care to bypass story for endgame raiding. I'm sorry, but in any normal world 5-15% of a population is classified as an 'extremely small to small percent".

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I don't even do endgame content! I do GLAM. If there is something I want for an OUTFIT IDEA I will grudgingly do it, but that's it. This has always been the case I have NEVER been a big PVE player, in any game. In SWTOR, I played it for the story, and outfits, and housing (later). I literally used to post on Dulfy outfits... for my companions.. The only thing I have ever done competitively, is PVP. I like PVP, whether it's shooter or MMO. My actual experience in endgame mmorpg raids is MINISCULE. Always thought they were a complete waste of time! I have never wanted to put in the time investment - wait around ALL NIGHT to prog, yeah right lol. I have played WoW for a grand total of probably 10-15 HOURS. During Legion, I got it on SALE. My highest level character that I actually played in WoW is level 20 something, and all I did was sit around waiting for PvP queues. That's it. Healer PvP. I have been in a grand total of like 3 savage runs in the entirety of my years playing this game, and I only did it, because some guy I farmed extremes with thought I was good, and should practice. I gave it 3 weeks, and never touched that trash again! Btw, I only do extremes, for the mounts, but I haven't even done extreems since Hades or whatever..

Long story about myself short, because I was genuinely annoyed. I just want to see the game thrive, and I have my own opinions that differ from many of you, on the matter. Doesn't mean the game isn't for me, and the game could be for many others. There is a multitude of content in this game that can appeal to players of many different types!

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Give it once for free

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I believe this was done for Everquest, several times.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi