Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

Interestingly, I've been playing my AST more and more because I don't feel as pressured to output good damage on it, and I used to pride myself on how long I could stay in cleric stance and how often I'd be out-DPSing the actual DPS. I do like that the 3.5 dungeons require me to heal more than I used to though.

That said, the constant bombardment of "healers should X" "healers shouldn't Y" by the community is exhausting and is a prime example of why we can't have nice things and will probably lose the choice in how we play at some point down the line.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Funny you say that, because just moments ago, as my static and I finally downed A11S, aside from a Combust I managed to cast perhaps 3 times in that entire fight, and not even with Cleric Stance on, I spent the entirety of it performing my primary function as the main healer. I'd rather keep my party alive to DPS than possibly overdo it trying to prove a point or shoot for what's effectively "extra" damage. Granted, if you can heal do with with minimal impact to actually being a healer, go for it. Personally speaking, survival went up, and progression went further when I decided to focus on my core role.

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Probably could have beat it months ago if you did contribute some DPS.

The first phase has minimal healing (first 2 minutes of the fight) and seeing as how you were 50% overheal on your own not counting your co-healer, that's a ton of wasted MP on AOE heals and would have been put to better use on doing damage.
Also by constantly overhealing you are reducing the amount of free healing that the Scholar Pet is able to do as it's AI will only heal those below 80% HP. (Unless your SCH has Embrace micro managed to other skills but then it's still just extra overhealing)

Most casual main healers in A11S can at least provide 1000 DPS in the first 2 minutes because aside from keeping up Aspected Benefic and using Essential Dignity on the tank paired with the occasional AOE heal after Optics there isn't much healing.
By doing 0 damage it really doesn't help in the later phases when people make mistakes or if there is a death.

At least be a team player and try to carry your BRD if nothing else, because while Yoshi P says that healer DPS is not required to clear Savage content, in your groups case it may be.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

DPS is only there for damage. Why should they be burdened with having to dodge and lower their own DPS?

Tanks are only there to hold aggro and mitigate damage. Why should they be able to swap stances and do damage?

To the healers that only heal:

Go play SCH with auto Eos and run any dungeon. Tell me how much fun you're having.

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Moving out of AOE's should be shared between all classes regardless of play style. Healer DPS is more akin to Enochian, WM, Gauss Barrel, BoTD etc and functions more like Raging Strikes, Hawk's Eye etc because properly utilizing your healer CD's as a function to swap stances is like a DPS buff CD.

Most people in DF Dungeons, Trials etc may not be good players so it shouldn't be expected of them to perform to that level. i.e. BRD's using Wind Bite, Venom Bite. SMN's casting ruin after Dots are applied and making full use of DWS. BLM using Enochian, or expecting DRG's to use the 3.0 rotation instead of the 2.0 rotation. Doing that stuff is hard and like healer DPS is above the level of most players.

People in Extreme or Savage content should be expected to though.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

this thread kinda proving most NA players have no idea wtf their doing. :)

how is leaving a tank @ 50% hp or less a good thing. I call it lazy healing.

much like those who refuse to comfort misery.

Ps this the g/f typing now cuz I'm sick of reading lazy healers/ and numb "tanks" think they play well, when they really 1/2 ass content lol.

if you can't keep people @ 70%+ and dps you kinda lazy as a healer imo.

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The only point of HP that matters, is the last one.

In practical terms, as long as people don't get one-shot, they don't need healing. Sometimes it means keeping people at 100% HP, sometimes it means keeping people above 20%, it depends on the situation, incoming damage and timing.

Reducing the time spent healing is only lazy if it's not replaced by time spent DPSing.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

And that's fine but healers who refuse to DPS at all are a plague on this game.

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WHM main and i refuse to DPS in raids simply because my job is HEALER and not DPS

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

no it isn't, not if you are causing the tank stress.

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Which I addressed in my post: if you're being stressed by that, ASK the healers to keep you up, I believe if you said politely that you have some issues with your hp getting lower than 50% most people won't have problem with it.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

this thread kinda proving most NA players have no idea wtf their doing. :)

how is leaving a tank @ 50% hp or less a good thing. I call it lazy healing.

much like those who refuse to comfort misery.

Ps this the g/f typing now cuz I'm sick of reading lazy healers/ and numb "tanks" think they play well, when they really 1/2 ass content lol.

if you can't keep people @ 70%+ and dps you kinda lazy as a healer imo.

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That 70% number is something you arbitrarily came up and impose on everyone else lol. Why 70%? Why not 90%? Why not 30%? The thing is, as long as the tank doesn't die it's all fine, but if you think it's not then yeah up to you, but please just don't force your "opinion" on every healer you meet that they MUST keep everyone above 70% all the time. Why is it the healer's job to keep everyone above 70% when there's virtually no difference between having 70% hp and 1% hp? As long as everyone is alive the healer is doing enough healing.

p.s. I'm not an NA player

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

I've been playing ff14 since 2.3, my g/f has been playing ff14 since 1.0. If you are not keeping your tank at least 90% hp. that is bad, dps when you have nothing to do. Don't dps if your tank is sitting to 50% or less hp.
There is a huge difference between, dpsing because nothing to do (no one requires healing) or just not healing to dps letting ppl sit on low hp, just to cast a big cure.

It also takes away the main role of the dps, who's job IS to deal damage. My opinion is: I see "forceful" dps healers as people who don't trust their dps party members, so they take it upon themselves to dps. They forgo their main role to dps, and leave tank to sit at 50% or less hp.

This is imo putting dps first healing second. It should be healing first dps second. Keep your tank @ 90% hp. Dps after. This is how my g/f played healer, and none of her runs told her off.

Also labeling off what content you do, is meaningless as it doesn't prove a thing. And you are also assuming my stance. Idm if a healers does damage, my g/f doesn't mind healer doing damage. Just not when she/ or the tank is at or under 50% hp.

putting healing secondary to damage is the wrong way to play healer imo.

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I.... WHAT???!! ok... 90 %?? Thats basically saying "spam cure" but cure does more than 10% = OVERHEALING
how does a healer doing dps take away from the dps classes? I'm sorry the run took less time guys... i know you wanted to take 20-25 minutes in here... sorry ::((
Letting tanks get lower allows them the opportunity to learn their class. To actually utilize their cooldowns and self heals.
it also allows healers to use their bigger cooldowns as well. Show me a healer that babysits my hp and I'll show you a healer that panics under pressure.
I'm sorry it just looks like you are bitter.

If they only changed the role name from "healer" to "support" then 99% of the heal only -arguments would just fizzle out because they're really not based on anything else than what the role is called.

Like this one:

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Originally Posted by AsukaHamano

WHM main and i refuse to DPS in raids simply because my job is HEALER and not DPS

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EDIT:

Also I really do symphatise with people who would just like to heal and not dps. I get that you want that, but it's just not how the game works. Just like I'm a MCH main and I'd really really want to play a full-fledged support class (like BRD was in FFXI). That's just not how this game is built!

Refusing to dps as healer is exactly the same as if I said I'm a support job, I'm here only to give MP/TP, vulnerabilities, stun/silence and dismantle or rend mind. For heaven's sake, that's already more abilities to manage than a heal-only WHM has! I don't have time to DPS!

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

I.... WHAT???!! ok... 90 %?? Thats basically saying "spam cure" but cure does more than 10% = OVERHEALING
how does a healer doing dps take away from the dps classes? I'm sorry the run took less time guys... i know you wanted to take 20-25 minutes in here... sorry ::((
Letting tanks get lower allows them the opportunity to learn their class. To actually utilize their cooldowns and self heals.
it also allows healers to use their bigger cooldowns as well. Show me a healer that babysits my hp and I'll show you a healer that panics under pressure.
I'm sorry it just looks like you are bitter.

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It takes away from the other DPS classes because in large pulls they have finite resources (not counting BLM) so the longer adds take to die the more TP/MP they use and CD's that get used up which makes the mobs take longer to die and the tank takes more damage overall especially when the tank CD's are used up etc.

Oh wait.......nvm maybe it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by AsukaHamano

WHM main and i refuse to DPS in raids simply because my job is HEALER and not DPS

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Cringe.

Why not? Holy is such good CC meaning you dont even need to heal, you have 3 dots too and Stone 3 is powerful....lord.

I played BRD, and I kinda get where the healers having a distaste for dps is coming from.

it comes down to role confusion, and what the player considers fun for them.

With a healer, they would have to deal with healing and dps. they use a skill to switch in and out of dps stance to dps. but healing involves knowing and preparing for what is coming next, down to timing the heals so that the people do not die in between fast attacks.


its a lots of major hats, which ultimately amounts to your fault once anything starts to snowball towards the inevitable wipe.

I'm not sure if its lazy that people do not want to have the fight totally spoiled and read out like a spreadsheet, but healers end up doing that with everything, on top of factoring in if they can save someone or not. healers being expected to dps is fine once dps get the ability to heal respectable numbers.