Red Mage (Tank) Please!

Not that I'm supporting RDM as a tank but one thing to consider.

People are saying that adding more tanks won't create more tanks. While this is true for MOST people in MOST cases. XIV has the rare situation where you have people like my friend and I. When we played XI my friend was DRK and I was RDM. When DRK was announced he didn't care that it was a Tank (he had been playing Healer and DPS mostly at his point) he was playing DRK no matter what role it fit.

Similarly, I myself play a DPS most of the time - sometimes healer if needed. I don't really tank.

I will play RDM no matter what role it gets shoved into due to my love of it in past games.


So while it's not a major factor to most people, if RDM was a Tank - you would have at least one person swapping to a role they don't normally go to. Again though, I'd MUCH prefer RDM be a DPS but I'll take what I can get to have Nagoto be a RDM again.

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Originally Posted by Isala

The point is, RDM is a special class. We all know it. It's part of why we all love it. No matter which way they go with our beloved RDM, even if we don't personally like it, it's not going to be something that a RDM has never done before. They've tanked. They've healed. They've DPSed. They've supported parties. The iconic Red Mage is a jack of all trades. It does everything. Whether the FFXIV crew focuses on making RDM do everything, or gives it an actual focus, it's still going to be a RDM. Might be a different flavor than what we were expecting/wanting, but that doesn't mean they've "ruined" RDM. Just means they went with something they felt embodied XIV's RDM.

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By the same token, folks need to be prepared for the fact that, in an MMO, it's particularly important to avoid "master of none". Whatever vision anyone in this thread has in mind for RDM, remember that in FFXIV there will be ONE and ONLY ONE role in which it excels, whether that be tank, healer, or DPS. They will get, at best, a token nod toward the other roles; for example, a tank RDM might have a minor cure spell but could never replace a dedicated healer.

Anyone expecting a RDM of old who can fill any role competently, or who is getting all hyped up on how RDM is going to be able to fill any party slot, please realize that you are setting yourself up for some hard disappointment. That kind of RDM doesn't fit in this game (at least, not unless SE makes some pretty fundamental changes to the game that they are seriously unlikely to make). Resign yourself to the fact that RDM won't be RDM as you know it. It will be a RDM-themed tank, a RDM-themed healer, or a RDM-themed DPS.

And, in the off-chance that I'm wrong, and RDM CAN fill any slot, resign yourself to the fact that when you sign up on Duty Finder, you're going to be a tank. Every. Damn. Time. :D

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

By the same token, folks need to be prepared for the fact that, in an MMO, it's particularly important to avoid "master of none"

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That really depends how deep they want to go with the "master of none" design. They could go with SCH/SMN route and give RDM 3 working roles. Well, that's just speculation. Would anyone even want to raid or pvp with a class that does half arsed job compared to others (master of none)

The more I think about it, the less I want RDM anywhere near a tank. The reason is two fold; BLU would make a vastly better tank, and RDM and DNC have the potential to do a bit of mixing up in the healer/support area's.

Right now Support is done by Ranged DPS, which is great and all, but it would be nice to have a support that get's into the fight. If we put RDM in there with it's rapier and spells, it would be very much continue the mold but with it's own unique twist. But if we put DNC into the melee support role, suddenly MNK has a class that can benefit from it's Dragon Kick as I would assume fan's would be blunt damage.

But there's one type of healing yet to be represented, and that's one done by damage. In WoW (which is more of a fair comparison than FFXI) both priest and monk, unless something has changed, can heal while doing damage. Translated to FFXIV this would be the equivalent of regen/fairy. The heals would be enough to sustain through auto-attacks, and through the last of trash mobs, while the casting part would be for more serious healing. Give RDM/DNC it's own cleric's stance where it transfer's damage done as healing and we've got a very desirable healer.

I just really cannot find any reason to bring RDM into the tanking slot when there exist a mage who iconicly get's stronger by getting hit. If they were to have completely sworn off BLU with a 100 percent confirm I'd change stance a bit, but before it was just a "not likely" and now it's even mentioned in the rising event.

Also, SE is known to take the easier route with this game. I believe in a live letter they even stated they wanted to keep tanks' in the same gear type, and I'm pretty sure a RDM in heavy armor instead of pimp hat and coat would be distasteful, whereas BLU and SAM would look sweet in heavy armors and furs/hides.

Just my two cents. Gave it two days of honest thought, but ultimately I'd want RDM to spice up healing before mucking up tanking.

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Originally Posted by Rhaja

Also, SE is known to take the easier route with this game. I believe in a live letter they even stated they wanted to keep tanks' in the same gear type, and I'm pretty sure a RDM in heavy armor instead of pimp hat and coat would be distasteful, whereas BLU and SAM would look sweet in heavy armors and furs/hides.

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that's what glamours are for. their Job specific gear can still be iconic no matter what they share regular gear with.

and a RDM looks a lot more RDM-like with a Heavy High Allagan Coat than a High Allagan Coat of Healing, not all tank gear is Heavy Metal, a bunch of them are pretty flowy without actually looking like dresses.

also they obviously don't care about distasteful when MNK and NIN gets to use The Guardian's Breastplate Of Striking.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

that's what glamours are for. their Job specific gear can still be iconic no matter what they share regular gear with.

and a RDM looks a lot more RDM-like with a Heavy High Allagan Coat than a High Allagan Coat of Healing, not all tank gear is Heavy Metal, a bunch of them are pretty flowy without actually looking like dresses.

also they obviously don't care about distasteful when MNK and NIN gets to use The Guardian's Breastplate Of Striking.

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>___> Let's just forget they ever did that. I can concede that gear design is always going to be subject to dev interest, and yes it's not all full plate. I suppose that was more rant that point making.

Again, I've honestly thought and played with the idea of them as tanks, and while it won't be some horrible abomination, I'm just more interested in what they could do in the other roles more than as a tank.

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

Just gonna be the first to say it, Rdm was capable/used as a tank in XI for a long time. So, XI did it first.

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As far as my experience in XI goes (release until early Wings of the Goddess) RDM was never a tank. It could solo some Notorious Monsters with ease compared to any other job, but that's something else. Never saw exp parties or endgame events having RDM as the tank.

I always figured they would make red mage the enhancement shaman of ff14. Dex based simple melee with burst coming from magic. Grp buffs so they can fill the brd/mch role and be an "jack of alll trades" class

I read some mentioned about RDM tanking in FF11. First you have to know why Ninja is a tank in FF11.

Ninja has a spell "utsusemi" which creates shadown images to absorb enemy attack, so keeps casting utsusemi I and II made it possible to tank. Of course, Ninja tanks must sub-job Warrior to access Provoke.

DEV explicitly said it was unexpected that NINJA was used as tank, they designed NINJA as a DD, but they let it be.

So any job sub-Job NINJA could cast "utsusemi" which had less image copies, and it would not enough to tank. Red Mage fast cast trait allowed casting "utsusemi" much faster with significant shorter recast timer, in addition Red Mage could generate aggro by self-healing or casting some high enmity spells (ie. Sleep) on the target.

But, that was just something like "ast solo heal x", "8war kill x"..etc, someone did it intentionally.
Actually RDM was paper weak and RDM was not a tank. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

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I just want to clarify that, while utsusemi did help, it wasnt the only reason they were good tank.
It was mostly because of the set of tool they had on their own. namely The glorious Phalanx, Stoneskin, protect/shell, and all their debuff that made the moster almost stop attaking them (slow/paralyze/blind/dia/bio) all those debuff could be merited for some more potent version of the spell. Add refresh, haste and self heal to that, they were pretty darn good tank.

I've used red mage in low man group a lot in ffxi and they were pretty fun to use as tank/self healer. This version of red mage couldnt work in ffxiv with the current set up we have, it just won't balance well, like most things that were a thing in ffxi.

Whatever they do if they implement red mage in ffxi, i will not be any of the red mage we know from previous game for obvious balance reason. But whatever they do with it ill play it. Red mage hold a dear spot in my heart.