Fix Sumnmoner

Pet classes always inevitable end up suffering in MMO's, partly due to gear scaling issues and partly due to AI delay and splitting the damage sources between summoner and the pet so target switches are even worse.

The problem with the summoner as well is that his damage is divided among so many sources. You virtually have to ramp up 4 spells to maintain DPS. 4 GCD's at 2.5 sec each is just dumb ramp up. He has many damage sources but all of them hit for very little.Basically summoner suffers from the same issue as monk, but whereas a monk's ramp up IS BUILT ON HIMSELF (instead of debuffs, he juggles buffs on himself), a monk can target switch with far less ramp up, and his single target is just better.

But monk is standing to get pushed out by dragoons and ninjas. What's the point of a monk or summoner if another class can not only compete with you on single target, but they bring burst and better aoe to boot.Both monk and summoners have lesser aoe (that bane target limit is just dumb, flare doesn't have a target limit), no burst, and they involve a good bit of ramp up. It's just summoner has an even worse version of what monk has.

Monk and Summoner should have the undisputable higher single target DPS to account for their aoe/burst deficiencies.

The true fix is by removing the egi all together. Make the class like it is supposed to be like and that means making it summon mystical creatures that deal x amount of damage and along with it a certain effect that cannot be negated. This could add some really good burst effect to the class and also make it more interesting because it allows for more options then just keeping x pet out all the time. I know they want a pet class but honestly would rather just see it be more viable. I stopped playing my summoner sometime after release because it just didn't feel like a summoner. I would gladly lose the ability to have a permanent pet for some viability and on top of that they could use the true models at that point because they won't always be on the field and in the way of the players view.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

The true fix is by removing the egi all together. Make the class like it is supposed to be like and that means making it summon mystical creatures that deal x amount of damage and along with it a certain effect that cannot be negated. This could add some really good burst effect to the class and also make it more interesting because it allows for more options then just keeping x pet out all the time. I know they want a pet class but honestly would rather just see it be more viable. I stopped playing my summoner sometime after release because it just didn't feel like a summoner. I would gladly lose the ability to have a permanent pet for some viability and on top of that they could use the true models at that point because they won't always be on the field and in the way of the players view.

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Keep the Egis since they fit with the Lore of Summoning Elemental Avatars to fight by our side. A true fix is to remove the DoTs or make them less important because by nature there is no balancing a DoT class. The only balance for a DoT class is having the highest single target potency since they have a slow ramp up and are punished for switching targets. DoT classes also have a hard time keeping up DPS becuase they reach the plateau faster, decline in damage overtime and sit in their minimum. This is because after 3min they reach their maximum potential in DPS and afterwards start to decline and see diminishing returns. DoT DPS graph will look like a downward parabola while other DPS will have a line going upward and a plateau at the top.

Make the Summons the focal point of the job to give the Summoner more sustained direct damage and bursts. Have the Egis play a role on the party
Ifrit-single target bursts
Titan- provide party wide reduction in damage
Garuda- AoE Bursts
Leviathan- Support Pet debuffer pet
Ramuh - AoE stun pet
Shiva-provide party wide defense shields.

Its sad that blm outperforms smn in every aspect of DPS when smn is obviously the more complicated of the two to play situationally speaking.

Even whm can outdps smn aoe wise. When this point is brought up, whm mp sacrifice is always the first consolidation prize. Well as someone who plays smn everyday, let me tell you something, smn burns just as much mp spamming its crappy cross class blizzard II. Aetherflow mp return gets you 3 extra blizzard II casts, energy drain gets is 1:1 blizzard II cast. All for whopping 50 potency aoe spell...

It gets worst when we look at Bane... Bane is such a piece of crap post smn nerf. It spreads your dots willy nilly with no regard to precision of any type. Why is this by design? Why would I want to bane my dots onto low 5% HP mobs, almost dead mobs or mobs with dots already on them? Why not just give us back our old Bane that spread to every target nearby? I mean its the only hard hitting aoe we had, and we even have fewer dots now than pre nerf. (Someone is going to mention Garuda and enkindle... I got three words for you 300s cool down).

The smart thing to do would have been to keep Bane as it was and remove Thunder as cross class but NOT both...

Smn was fine as it was, except for pet imbalances/deficiencies.

It was nerfd because at the time end game was scaled to lower DPS thresholds.

Well what now SE? You've nerfd all the coils and added ALOT more content with higher HP mobs since smn nerf and still left smn gimp... Just sad... The bad part is players whiteknighting smn as it is now probably didn't even get to experience how awesome the original Bane was. When SMN wasn't a watered down blm with a pet rock

Instead of letting the job scale with gear and keep up with other DPS, you took the easy route and just nerfd the crap out if it... Still makes 0 sense to me even to this day.

Would REALLY like to finally hear a dev on this, since the issue keeps popping up and all we've seen so far is a slight mention at smn being reworked in 3.0. Its been a thorn for quite awhile now.

I do agree with the Bane comments - BLMs can do their AoE rotations indefinitely and their DPS is directly proportionate to the number of mobs hit. It is unfair for SMN to only hit three targets, no matter how many are nearby. Rarely a problem in Coil of course, but still.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Snip.

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Bane was never nerfed, it always hit three additional targets. All they did was increase the range of the spread, which was a buff. They changed the tool tip information to reflect this. It also spreads to three targets closest to the Bane'd enemy. It's not hard to DoT an entire group, but yes the limit should be lifted. The expansion is just a couple of months away. Cry for changes when you aren't happy after the level cap goes up.

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Originally Posted by Ardan

Bane was never nerfed, it always hit three additional targets. All they did was increase the range of the spread, which was a buff. They changed the tool tip information to reflect this. It also spreads to three targets closest to the Bane'd enemy. It's not hard to DoT an entire group, but yes the limit should be lifted. The expansion is just a couple of months away. Cry for changes when you aren't happy after the level cap goes up.

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I remember firsthand playing smn when it came out and you could bane dots onto all nearby targets.

Please keep your insults to yourself. I'm not crying. I just care a lot about this issue and want to see dev comment on it. I know 3.0 is coming soon. Until then I'll keep raising awareness until SE confirms the issue. Just in case. I don't want to leave anything up to chance.

Also it is hard to Bane an entire group as the ability does not smartly spread the dots. It just disregards all logic and plops dots wherever. Guess it was too much of a hassle to code checks of nearby mobs status/state. Would have been easier to just spread dots to all nearby targets instead of only 3.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

I remember firsthand playing smn when it came out and you could bane dots onto all nearby targets.

Please keep your insults to yourself. I'm not crying. I just care a lot about this issue and want to see dev comment on it. I know 3.0 is coming soon. Until then I'll keep raising awareness until SE confirms the issue. Just in case. I don't want to leave anything up to chance.

Also it is hard to Bane an entire group as the ability does not smartly spread the dots. It just disregards all logic and plops dots wherever. Guess it was too much of a hassle to code checks of nearby mobs status/state. Would have been easier to just spread dots to all nearby targets instead of only 3.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7af43f3c43828a

"Action help text has been revised for the following actions:

Bane
Now correctly states that Bio, Bio II, and Miasma are spread to a maximum of three targets."

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Originally Posted by Ardan

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7af43f3c43828a

"Action help text has been revised for the following actions:

Bane
Now correctly states that Bio, Bio II, and Miasma are spread to a maximum of three targets."

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Does nothing to change the legitimacy of Bane being badly implemented/designed which is one of many main points being addressed within this thread. The other being pet imbalance with issue such as:

Contagion being exclusive to Garuda instead of being a smn utility.

Ifrits wasted skill slot Radiant Shield

And Titan could use some better/stronger aoe snap aggro as well as def (its vit is good).

Also, the annoying lag pets have when executing stuns and manual skills. I've personally ran into cases where I knew a stun was needed soon and War tanks was down yet ifrit derpd it because the stun came several seconds after the command and the enemies cast wasn't even short by any means.

IMO bad reaction time/lag makes the whole point of pet micro moot. In which case might as well remove pet stuns and just set them to auto since they won't react fast enough anyway.

Can we get some dev response about SMN in 3.0 please? Maybe just a confirmation that these issues are known and possibly being addressed?

"Even whm can outdps smn aoe wise"

Well, to be fair, WHM can outdps most classes in AoE if the tank can stay alive lol