Rogue/Ninja Starting Class?

After rewatching the CS, I'm thinking maybe, even though I'd want NIN to be available to new players @30, SE may actually make it be required that you finish 2.2 in order to open it and maybe just use THF to 50. Since Yugiri specifically says to the character that she wouldn't mind training them in her arts... maybe any player wanting to play NIN will need to get to the point where she offers to teach them in the script? But then again, I still contend that knowing SE, even if it goes against the lore, they will make THF be usable @character creation (due to Thancred already being a member of the guild so there's no lore issues), and they'll just find some way to let people be NIN @ 30 even w/out Yugiri volunteering to train them in 2.2.

Kind of a funny paradox like elder scrolls oblivion if you beat the mage guild before joining the thieves guild. Just gonna leave this note for myself that I stole my own staff for myself to read later.

Anyway more off topic is ninja gonna be a disciple of magic you know since ninjistu, is a form of magic.

I think that SE should make Rogue a post 2.3 job only making it a sort of "premium class/job" for those far enough in.
They also stated that the Rogue/Ninja class would play differently from any other class/job so it wouldn't hurt new player to start with more regular classes first then have access to Rogue and any other new classes/jobs after doing 2.3/2.4's story line that or SE should re-do a number of thing of the story line for new players like editing the whole story to have the Doman and Yugiri fitting in the story while removing and completely changing 2.2, 2.3 and maybe 2.4 just so it would make sense depending on whether you've started the game before or after 2.4 release which would be too much work I think.
To a side note I think that unlocking new classes through quests would also be quite enjoyable to me.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

And again you dodge. Are you advocating that rog and nin should barred from doing any content pre 2.4, that includes CT, ST and Coils 1 and 2? Because that is exactly the line of reasoning you are using.

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Well of course they won't be barred from pre 2.4 content.... If rogues and ninjas are locked behind storyline missions then it just means we cant be trained until we get passed that point in the game.

You would have already levelled a character to 50 which would be a starting class and therefore they would have access to pre 2.4 content...?

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Originally Posted by ZReport

It's not a dead art, and she may very well delegate some of the Ninja training to her associates. It makes absolutely no sense at all for Yugiri to be around before the 2.2 storyline if you are a new player. The player character doesn't know of her existence or the fact that Ninja exist. You can make the argument for Rogue however, as it is an art that was refined in Limsa Lominsa.

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Yes! You have exactly supported the point I was trying to make, that a player doesn't need to have met Yugiri in order to learn to be a Ninja. There are other practitioners of the art, and it is not impossible that a player earlier in the storyline could meet one of those practictioners to unlock the job. Neither becoming a Rogue nor becoming a Ninja necessarily has to depend on one's progression through the storyline.

Thanks for the dialogue snippet!

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Not all of the jobs have teachers that show you new techniques. Those powers are usually granted by the Job Stone itself which stores the memory and spirit of past practitioners. You could even just *find* a ninja stone and run around doing ninja-y stuff to unlock the latent power in the stone. Don't even need a direct teacher.

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Another good lore-safe alternative. Though there would have to be SOME kind of NPC you interact with to start the quests, I'd think. Someone who's heard of Ninjas and studies them. Wants to BE them? Wants to totally flip out and kill everybody in the room??? And that's Real Ultimate Power!

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Though there would have to be SOME kind of NPC you interact with to start the quests, I'd think. Someone who's heard of Ninjas and studies them.

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Kind of like the NPC you get the scholar quests from is a marauder, who has only read about such scholars. I could totally see a similar deal working out with the first few Ninja quests. Then perhaps Yugiri starts to provide training only on later NIN quests.

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Originally Posted by ZReport

It's not a dead art, and she may very well delegate some of the Ninja training to her associates. It makes absolutely no sense at all for Yugiri to be around before the 2.2 storyline if you are a new player. The player character doesn't know of her existence or the fact that Ninja exist. You can make the argument for Rogue however, as it is an art that was refined in Limsa Lominsa.

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So one could play Rogue until 50, and only unlock Ninja after 2.2. That'd be a neat twist, don't you think?

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Originally Posted by Exstal

So one could play Rogue until 50, and only unlock Ninja after 2.2. That'd be a neat twist, don't you think?

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It does make for a neat twist indeed, but I honestly don't believe it will affect many people in this manner outside of the new Chinese players and maybe some of the stragglers/people who dislike story/endgame.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Kind of like the NPC you get the scholar quests from is a marauder, who has only read about such scholars. I could totally see a similar deal working out with the first few Ninja quests. Then perhaps Yugiri starts to provide training only on later NIN quests.

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or maybe the Ninja Trainer can be a former Ninja who has been secret living in Eorzea (probably living his or her life as a Farmer or a Merchent) because he has been running away from his past as a Ninja and the reason why we discover this person is a Ninja is because this person had to use a bit of his Ninja skills to save our character's life.

After that our character becomes the 1st Adventurer the Ninja trainer trains to become a Ninja. (Like how the Job Quest where our character is the 1st Adventurer to be fully trained as "this Job".)

(PS yes I probably watched a bit too many of those Ninja movies involving the Ninja Protagonist running away from his or her past as a Ninja and forced into becoming a Ninja again because of Personal Reasons)

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Originally Posted by TheMunimai

Well of course they won't be barred from pre 2.4 content.... If rogues and ninjas are locked behind storyline missions then it just means we cant be trained until we get passed that point in the game.

You would have already levelled a character to 50 which would be a starting class and therefore they would have access to pre 2.4 content...?

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Except lorewise rog and nin didn't exist when traversing Coils 1 and 2 with Alisaie or braving CT or ST together with Cid. Lorewise you can't possibly be rog or nin doing this. That is the line of reasoning she is supporting and its ridiculous. Its that same reasoning people are arguing to lock this class/job behind story, when regardless the story does not change, the story has already happened. Its in the past and you being a rog or nin going through it doesn't change the story that has been told.