#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

To nobody's surprise, new EX1 was already cleared by 8 tanks (in PF by randoms no less)

(Video is unlisted so won't share since the author did not intend it for public but its nothing special, really anybody can do the same)

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Were they atleast close to enrage?

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

Fwiw, I don't think this dichotomy exists- the majority seems to want both. People want better healing content, both with more oncoming damage and more reactive healing (crit autos were an easy source of this in older XIV, but this mechanic basically vanished), but they understand that changing the encounter design in that way is both difficult and probably cannot be broadly applied to all content, so they also want more engaging dps tools. The better dps kit is super low hanging fruit, they literally need to undelete some of the 10 missing actions that healers had in HW. It's like, few hours of work and testing, most likely. The former takes more time, although I think it's a necessity to truly bring the healer support fantasy alive.

If you want an example, I mained SCH in HW, when it was at the peak of its dps complexity, and I really enjoyed keeping all the different timed dots rolling perfectly. But the peak of SCH gameplay for me was moments like, for example, in A6S pre-nerf, my team messed up the slow/stuns on the orbs in the Brawler add phase and, if you were a good scholar, using your own slows/Supervirus/Fey Illumination, you could salvage the pull and make it through that mechanic. That was peak Scholar gameplay, a combination of defensive buffs, debuffs and mitigation used tactically making it through a difficult mechanic. I still think back on those moments even more than I do on managing all the dots- I don't think the latter is enough without the former.

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Bingo. XIV is the first MMO I've ever played where a healer is bored both healing, AND DPSing. Every other MMO gives us things to heal, and engaging DPS rotations when there's nothing to heal. I don't know why the current design in XIV is literally braindead, and frankly, I hate it.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Were they atleast close to enrage?

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Boss killed in the middle of second Mountain Fire tankbusters, which is what, 40s before enrage? Comp was 2 of each tank jobs.

Edit: Different PF group https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ed_as_8_tanks/

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Boss killed in the middle of second Mountain Fire tankbusters, which is what, 40s before enrage? Comp was 2 of each tank jobs.

Edit: Different PF group https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ed_as_8_tanks/

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And in typical Redditor fashion, they mock our movement, intentionally missing the actual point of it in order to bow down to the perfect job designers.

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Originally Posted by Iedarus

And in typical Redditor fashion, they mock our movement, intentionally missing the actual point of it in order to bow down to the perfect job designers.

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Gotta love that these people are supporting us despite their condescension lol. Thank you for actually making healerless runs a more and more common public thing :p

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Gotta love that these people are supporting us despite their condescension lol. Thank you for actually making healerless runs a more and more common public thing :p

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And then the people just move the goalpost.

"It's just an extreme fight, wait til Savage".
"Wait til Ultimate"
"Wait for 8.0"

Rinse and repeat

I'd honestly be surprised if a WAR can't solo the first floor of the normal raid at this point.

With the ridiculous self sustain the tanks have and their rather high damage these days (an average tank is doing closer to a phys ranged damage than a healers damage) and the always easy first tier on patch clears using a third tank as replacement for the healer are going to become super common unless they hard implement role restrictions via actual true randomness

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

With the ridiculous self sustain the tanks have and their rather high damage these days (an average tank is doing closer to a phys ranged damage than a healers damage) and the always easy first tier on patch clears using a third tank as replacement for the healer are going to become super common unless they hard implement role restrictions via actual true randomness

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SE: *makes role bonus 2%*

Also SE: What do you mean that didn’t fix it *shocked Pikachu face*

Edit: to elaborate slightly further I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if they made role bonus an additional 1% then honestly believe that it would just stop everyone using ‘non-standard’ comps.
Also it’s hilarious that they completely destroyed BLM (supposedly, I haven’t played it yet tbh) because it had ‘non-standard’ rotations, but they’re perfectly fine with the high viability of non-standard comps?
Like make up your minds lol, are you enforcing players to a specific ‘standard’ or are you going to allow non-standard things to exist. Because right now they’re basically trying to have it both ways

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I'd honestly be surprised if a WAR can't solo the first floor of the normal raid at this point.

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You mean WAR won't be able to solo every floor? Outrageous, plz buff

/s

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Originally Posted by Dimenital

what will make me sleep at night is when all of you actually stop whinging god knows i see enough of that shit on twitter.

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Do yourself a favor and get off of Twitter.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

The character may be portrayed poorly, but her ideals are something worth striving for imo. It's a good ruler's perspective, albeit very idealistic. Except this is Final Fantasy, where there are precedents towards that idealistic reality in that game.

So no, I don't think the idea about acceptance and understanding is wrong, nor hated by the community. We had multiple instances about the very themes of acceptance and understanding in multiple expansions. Even Heavensward had a lot of topics on understanding and acceptance towards differences in race. The whole dragonsong war initially stopped because people were able to put aside that difference initially, thereby living in Harmony with two distinct races and cultures merging into one. Estinen himself mentioned while being possessed, he intimately felt the rancor, fury, and grief -- and through the experience, Nidhogg is not so different from him. He now wields his lance not for men but for men and dragon both and his armor was given to him by Hraesvelgr.

The cumulation of efforts in Endwalker also led to the renaming of Allied Society Quests rather than the Beast Tribe Quests. Putting aside differences in both appearance and way of life. Dawntrail is just another extension to that. The story might be told poorly compared to its previous expansions, but the themes still ring true.

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Crack heads have good ideas sometimes. Doesn't mean I won't ignore them for being crack heads.

Adventurer in need bonus is still tank for most duties. I dont think healers are striking more than tanks switching to dps because PLD and DRK problems.

I just hope devs are taking the feedback on healing. Otherwise they are just ignoring and saying " encounter design will fix healer issues"

The problem is none of you are offering no solutions, just complaints.
You need to be able to access any DPS added on the main controller cross hotabar and the upper one. Every slot is already used.

So on WHM, what spells do you want removed and how would you replace them to add DPS?

Why is it that everybody on this board comes off as angry? Why is it that everyone outside of this board disagrees with the takes on this board.
You all might have put yourself in an unhealthy echo chamber.

What concerns me is that healers who complain they have nothing to do are asking for issues. Either they will get it so they are bombarded with healing so that's all they get to do. Or the one I fear, I've had plenty and more healers who decided "Eh, I want to DPS" more than anything. Back in Celric Stance days, it was a nightmare. I had no issue with WHM's who wanted to use their staff as a bonking stick, but holy crap did a LOT of them go "MUH DPS!", and totally ignore healing anyone but the tank.

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Originally Posted by HealerGuy

The problem is none of you are offering no solutions, just complaints.
You need to be able to access any DPS added on the main controller cross hotabar and the upper one. Every slot is already used.

So on WHM, what spells do you want removed and how would you replace them to add DPS?

Why is it that everybody on this board comes off as angry? Why is it that everyone outside of this board disagrees with the takes on this board.
You all might have put yourself in an unhealthy echo chamber.

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You already asked this, and several responses were already given to you.

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Originally Posted by HealerGuy

The problem is none of you are offering no solutions, just complaints.
You need to be able to access any DPS added on the main controller cross hotabar and the upper one. Every slot is already used.

So on WHM, what spells do you want removed and how would you replace them to add DPS?

Why is it that everybody on this board comes off as angry? Why is it that everyone outside of this board disagrees with the takes on this board.

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I mean, we were talking about one solution I had offered already. I know other people have put in graphs and responses also from all walks of the game (raiders to casuals). I know the mentality is "I am not gonna look through 600 pages of a forum post" but it has been discussed already. I do hope you have a good one though~

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I'm not skipping years of anything. You quoted my post. Please read the quote in that very post that it was a direct response to. A supporter of the strike was belittling someone else by "explaining what a strike is"; I just showed why this thing going on fails spectacularly by the very definition that poster provided.

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Completely irrelevant, yet again, as you showed nothing by commenting on something you know nothing about. You're just trying to do semantics on a legitimate cause.

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Originally Posted by Zaytex

For those who are wondering about how healing feels to play in the latest high-end content. I've now progged and cleared EX1 as WHM and I can say for certain the core issues with the role remain the same (wow, who would've guessed?)

Progging is extremely fun, managing your cooldowns, triage healing and figuring out where you need to put your resources whilst maximising your damage and figuring out the sweet spot of how much you can get away with - all very enjoyable.

However.. as soon the prog is over, this role is fucking miserable. I am on my 5th reclear of EX1 as WHM and I am already bored. I've already figured out how the healing needs to be done, so there is nothing left for me to do now. Just 1111121111 mindlessly and nothing else.

This is what healer is now, it's just a prog job/role. You play it for prog, and then switch off it immediately. In ShB/EW I at least had AST which offered more to optimise and figure out due to the card system and how its healing is genuinely more nuanced than any other healer... but they reworked it, so I don't even have that anymore.

This is it folks, this role is unplayable to any non-lobotomized player in casual or re-clears, just play it for prog, and move on.

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Just to add on from what I said: when I was looking to clear EX1 in prog parties, healer slots were contentious but when going back to do reclear/farming, almost every single PF was missing healers and were always waiting on them last to fill. How could this have happened guys? Why does nobody want to play healer?

Oh, and my roulette queues have already gone back to waiting on healers again. I guess the new DPS button you get to press once every 2 minute didn't change anything, I could have never predicted this /s

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Originally Posted by HealerGuy

The problem is none of you are offering no solutions, just complaints.
You need to be able to access any DPS added on the main controller cross hotabar and the upper one. Every slot is already used.

So on WHM, what spells do you want removed and how would you replace them to add DPS?

Why is it that everybody on this board comes off as angry? Why is it that everyone outside of this board disagrees with the takes on this board.
You all might have put yourself in an unhealthy echo chamber.

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A lot of us have provided suggestions and solutions to each healer Job in this thread. Myself included.

As a former WHM player, the job doesn’t need extra DPS buttons. We got a new DPS action in DT, but it’s locked behind an ability on a 120sec cooldown and you have to wait 90 levels to get it.

WHM’s DPS actions are fine, but we don’t use half of those actions most of the fight. It’s just all Glare spam.

To add variety to the rotation, have Aero / Dia’s DoT timer reduced to 15 seconds. Adjust the potency, yes, but make us press it more.

Separate Glare IV away from Pressence of Mind. You still have the 3 free Glare IV’s after PoM is used, but make Glare IV usable outside of that ability. Make it proc off Dia or let it be a GCD on a 20sec CD.

While we are at it, reduce PoM’s CD to 60 seconds.

Make Holy, a Final Fantasy staple, usable in a single target rotation. Maybe an AoE DoT after PoM is used.

The only healing action that needs to be removed from WHM is Cure I, which needs to naturally upgrade to Cure II.

I'm also going to sign this. While I enjoy Scholar, I find healing content past ARR to be taxing; not because of the mechanics, but because of all the DPS who are busy telling me "How to do my Job".

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Originally Posted by HealerGuy

The problem is none of you are offering no solutions, just complaints.
You need to be able to access any DPS added on the main controller cross hotabar and the upper one. Every slot is already used.

So on WHM, what spells do you want removed and how would you replace them to add DPS?

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I have responded to that question. I have also linked a Reddit thread that talks about how you can set up your controller in order to have zero problems with having a lot of abilities. You have, apparently, very conveniently not seen either of my two replies. Either that or you are willfully ignoring them.

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Originally Posted by kcj

I'm also going to sign this. While I enjoy Scholar, I find healing content past ARR to be taxing; not because of the mechanics, but because of all the DPS who are busy telling me "How to do my Job".

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Honestly I feel like I started to enjoy the healer most when I stopped caring what other people wanted from me and just started doing what I thought was fun. Obviously I don’t mean being an active menace to the party. I just mean like, I will use Fey Illumination to buff magic defense and/or healing. Is it useless because it doesn’t affect gcds? Is that going to stop me? lol. I will not hesitate to Physick a bitch (and use Lustrate in the oGCD window lol). Excogitation? Excogi-nothing!

Disclaimer: do not try this at home (?)

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

A lot of us have provided suggestions and solutions to each healer Job in this thread. Myself included.

As a former WHM player, the job doesn’t need extra DPS buttons. We got a new DPS action in DT, but it’s locked behind an ability on a 120sec cooldown and you have to wait 90 levels to get it.

WHM’s DPS actions are fine, but we don’t use half of those actions most of the fight. It’s just all Glare spam.

To add variety to the rotation, have Aero / Dia’s DoT timer reduced to 15 seconds. Adjust the potency, yes, but make us press it more.

Separate Glare IV away from Pressence of Mind. You still have the 3 free Glare IV’s after PoM is used, but make Glare IV usable outside of that ability. Make it proc off Dia or let it be a GCD on a 20sec CD.

While we are at it, reduce PoM’s CD to 60 seconds.

Make Holy, a Final Fantasy staple, usable in a single target rotation. Maybe an AoE DoT after PoM is used.

The only healing action that needs to be removed from WHM is Cure I, which needs to naturally upgrade to Cure II.

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I can get behind some of these. Been playing WHM since 2013 so I've seen how it changed. Personally, I'd like to see WHM having more dps.

I'll consider playing again when they return Aero III, make PoM 60s, make Glare IV and Divine Caress standalone and return Holy to the nuke it was back in the day while also increasing it's mana cost again. Also, while we are at it, revert the change to Thin Air we've gotten with EW. Cure I needs to upgrade into Cure II. Remove Medica III, no one needs that - most boring skill upgrade ever. Divine Benison should be able to crit for fun. Regen can use a buff, I can't recall the last time I actually had to use it when oGCD's do all the healing I ever need.

Though I know it will not happen, one can dream.

Yeah there have been tons and tons of proposals, they'll just always get buried in a forum. I don't have all the answers but I've got plenty.

-Add higher damage in many places, more frequent instances of damage. Rework or remove vulnerability mechanics if you must. Things can be too punishing for healers to be able to actually interact with damage when it's just, 3 strikes you're out after two vuln stacks. It sounds contradictory, but it's the other end of the extreme where instant death mechanics or stacked aoes that hit you all at once if you fail it kill you because of vulnerability. Healers can't interact with that besides raising.
-On that note, if they want the game to be more accessible for casuals and new players, reduce the time of the death debuff. As a casual trash player who does duty roulette, I'd like that.
-Add more (any, since there are none anywhere past lvl 60) cleanseable statuses. They dont have to be life or death, just worthwhile to bother cleansing.
-Honestly, nerf healing all over, reduce potencies. This is in line with increasing damage output in the game but increasing damage is more important.
-We can definitely remove some of the ogcd healing bloat, and this will leave room for a couple abilities for more interesting dps gameplay.
-The game needs aggro management, which should be the primary part of tank gameplay, not blue dpsing. Healers and dps can also have abilities that help juggle aggro, like a ninja smokescreen, dragoon jumping, some fancy red mage thing, maybe monk can have a deflect blows thing that lets them handle having aggro for like 5-10 seconds long enough for the tank to get it back. Be creative.
-The game also needs mana management back, at least on healers.
-Bosses need to be more than choreographed dancing into the right place to stand. FFXIV is a puzzle game where the only difficulty is how unclear it is to determine where the safe areas are fast enough without studying beforehand. Bosses are striking dummies at worst and choreographed dance routines at best.

Class specific stuff
-Make Assize just do damage.
-Remove divine benison, WHM shouldn't have a shield at all, especially not two stacks of it. Doesn't need two stacks of tetra either, or thin air.
-Consider cleric stance, even.
-Rework Fey Union on SCH since it's useless and locks you out of all fairy abilities, making it especially useless.
-Nerf all tank survivability. Not by a ton, but they should never be able to solo bosses for longer than 30 seconds or a minute. Bloodwhetting and the warrior party shield are the worst for balance.
-If Sage gets addersgall outside of combat, let SCH use aetherflow outside of combat. Blatant favoritism.
-But really, the two need to be further distinguished from each other. And really all healers are too similar.
-Current Astro is better with astrodyne in the garbage where it belongs, but it's a blank slate for now. You can still give unique effects to cards that don't cause issues with dps buff fishing but that also do things other than just healing effects like current. Astro is more of a carbon copy of WHM with a card game than before.
-Put Verraise on a 40/60 second cooldown (and let summoner keep raise if they did go through with removing it) These are important for class identity but current red mage infringes on the healer role too hard with dishing out 4-6 raises in a row with dual cast.

-WHM didn't need a dash in dawntrail. it makes it homogenized and we dont want every healer to have a dash. WHM has enough ogdcs and instant casts to be highly mobile and constantly move.
-SCH angel wings are an insult and a copy of WHMs wings and healing buff effect. Do better.

-Savage raids should be an afterthought. It's an abundant amount of content for a rather small portion of the playerbase. You're not going to get more casuals to try savage by making normal content more like it, and savage raiders aren't going to like it being made easier either. Do whatever you want with savage raids, but I think it's okay to not go insane over all the numbers and calculations. It should be okay for savage to be a bit unfair, this is content for the most skilled and committed players after all. It doesn't need to be perfectly balanced as long as it's challenging enough but not too much for that playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

2) you can’t say “we tried to find common ground and the strikers shouted us down” when the vast majority of the posts from new people who oppose the strike amount to “you idiots should be ignored”, when was the last time someone opened a post with “hey Supersnow you said for example you could delete fey blessing to replace it with miasma but fey blessing has a good use in x situation and I don’t believe a non interactive DOT is worth that loss”. Nobody will engage with our arguments. The last 4 people who posted for the first time here spat vitriol in their opening posts then got defensive when we hit back then people like you come in and say “see the strikers are so toxic”

WHY WILL YOU NOT ENGAGE WITH OUR POINTS (general you not you specifically) I’m tired of being called a toxic raider and a pathetic casual, just engage with my arguments

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I understand the frustration you feel between SE not engaging in direct conversation with the healing community and the idiots who come in shouting insults because they're protected by internet anonymity. I can remember going through that myself in WoW as the game started declining in Cataclysm then nosedived in Warlords of Draenor.

The lessons learned:

Ignore those who are only insulting and make zero attempt at constructive discussion. They're always going to show up but they're never worth the headspace (unless you're bored and want to poke back at them).

Understand that the developers are only going to respond when they feel a need to respond. They do not owe us as paying customers anything other than a product that functions consistently within the standard that has been set for the product. We can make suggestions about the product but they're under no obligation to implement those suggestions. If we're not happy with the product or part of it, we're better off seeking what we want elsewhere.

As an anecdote for why I'm against expanding the DPS kit for healers:
Last night, I was running the level 95 dungeon with friends doing it for the first time. Originally I expected to heal but ended up DPS because the 4th they recruited for the party only had a healer leveled high enough and I haven't started leveling one of my tank jobs yet.

My friends are not good players due to their disabilities so when I'm healing for them, I always pay extra attention to their health because I know they're going to get hit by mechanics on occasion since their reaction time is slow.

The healer did not notice. As they put it about halfway through the dungeon, they were snapping into DPS mode and not paying attention to what was happening to the rest of the party. We wiped way more than we should have because the healer was not paying attention to the rest of the party until it was too late.

That should never be the case with a healer. They should always have at least partial awareness on what is happening to the party so they can react. And yet it happens all too often in roulettes. The healer from last night was by no means the only healer I've come across that ignores the party in favor of their DPS. They can get away with it in a good group of players. They can't in an average or bad group of players.

The problem would get even worse with a more robust damage kit for healers. Healers that already struggle with focus multi-tasking would find it even more difficult especially if others around them start complaining that they aren't using their damage kit effectively enough. SE has to consider those healers when creating the role design. The more presence damage tools have in a kit, the more attention they're going to get from players compared to the tools added for the role's core function of healing. It starts attracting more players who are only looking for fast queues as green DPS and have no interest in healing.

If someone truly enjoys the healing role, they should be looking for the healing to be made more engaging. Damage abilities should only be there to act as filler if there are a couple of GCDs free for a moment. If a healer is capable of using a GCD to cast a Glare or Ruin, they are also capable of using that GCD to cast a heal. There's no reason for SE to have to go light on the quantity of incoming damage attacks to a party. If they're concerned about the ability of less skilled healers to keep up, they can reduce the size of those attacks so missing a GCD won't wipe a group in normal content. Better healers would still use that GCD that others are missing to get off a quick attack before they resume healing.

For those who think "what about solo duties", switch to a DPS job if you want a better DPS toolkit to work with. There's no point doing a solo duty as a healer when there's nothing to be healed other than ourself. Once we hit the first RP duty at the end of the 4.3 MSQ, we're rarely playing as ourselves during those duties so what our damage toolkit is makes no difference. The amount of XP earned in doing the solo duties is tiny; the major XP comes from turning in the completed quest.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Honestly I feel like I started to enjoy the healer most when I stopped caring what other people wanted from me and just started doing what I thought was fun. Obviously I don’t mean being an active menace to the party. I just mean like, I will use Fey Illumination to buff magic defense and/or healing. Is it useless because it doesn’t affect gcds? Is that going to stop me? lol. I will not hesitate to Physick a bitch (and use Lustrate in the oGCD window lol). Excogitation? Excogi-nothing!

Disclaimer: do not try this at home (?)

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I have decided that I will overheal and people can just deal. I am in love with my Medica 3 animation and it makes me happy to use it.

Most dps actually dont even care - they like knowing they have a little regen every once in a while "just in case". Haven't had a single complaint in DT and in general compliments.

Optimized play in a vaccuum vs. what other casual players like (security) can be quit edifferent.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I have decided that I will overheal and people can just deal. I am in love with my Medica 3 animation and it makes me happy to use it.

Most dps actually dont even care - they like knowing they have a little regen every once in a while "just in case". Haven't had a single complaint in DT and in general compliments.

Optimized play in a vaccuum vs. what other casual players like (security) can be quit edifferent.

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Well recently I did alliance raid as a tank and one of the healers was putting regen on me on CD. I was not the alliance tank so was not receiving any damage.

I wonder what exactly was going on in this healers head, was such gameplay some weird healer role RP?

Well, people like that don't have any issues since they don't live in the same reality as us.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Honestly I feel like I started to enjoy the healer most when I stopped caring what other people wanted from me and just started doing what I thought was fun. Obviously I don’t mean being an active menace to the party. I just mean like, I will use Fey Illumination to buff magic defense and/or healing. Is it useless because it doesn’t affect gcds? Is that going to stop me? lol. I will not hesitate to Physick a bitch (and use Lustrate in the oGCD window lol). Excogitation? Excogi-nothing!

Disclaimer: do not try this at home (?)

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this is so based btw

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Originally Posted by HealerGuy

So on WHM, what spells do you want removed and how would you replace them to add DPS?

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Since you brought up, White Mage, a job that really doesn't have any hotbar space issues whatsoever, I'll still make suggestions on how to clean it up.

- Merge Medica and Rapture. You scarily ever need the former nowadays, and the Lilies system on the whole should be introduced much faster in the leveling process than it is. Alternatively, you could have Rapture replace Media on your hotbar should you have a Lily charge. Which would be my suggestion for Solace and Cure II.
- Plenary could be removed entirely given how minimal it's impact is. I'd argue Aqua Veil and Benison could be compared in some fashion with a third charge added

That right there takes off potentially four buttons. Regardless, this myth that controller users are struggling with hotbar space really needs to die. They aren't. In fact, they have more convenient options through the cross/w hotbar than keyboard users do. People need to stop shoving 10 mounts and 50 minions on their bars then complain about space.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Since you brought up, White Mage, a job that really doesn't have any hotbar space issues whatsoever, I'll still make suggestions on how to clean it up.

- Merge Medica and Rapture. You scarily ever need the former nowadays, and the Lilies system on the whole should be introduced much faster in the leveling process than it is. Alternatively, you could have Rapture replace Media on your hotbar should you have a Lily charge. Which would be my suggestion for Solace and Cure II.
- Plenary could be removed entirely given how minimal it's impact is. I'd argue Aqua Veil and Benison could be compared in some fashion with a third charge added

That right there takes off potentially four buttons. Regardless, this myth that controller users are struggling with hotbar space really needs to die. They aren't. In fact, they have more convenient options through the cross/w hotbar than keyboard users do. People need to stop shoving 10 mounts and 50 minions on their bars then complain about space.

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No thanks. I have situations where both of these are useful.

Adding to explain - I like being able to decide if I want to use a Lily immediately. If I'm under no pressure I'd rather save a Lily and Medica, especially if I'm mostly using Lilies on the MT. It's a micro-decision that sometimes does not mean much, but having an insta-cast lily and saving it for moving vs. hard-casting is a decision I want to be able to make for myself.

I am fine like many if they just upgraded Cure1 into Cure2. I can't think of any situations lately where Cure1 is worth the time to cast over doing anything else at all.

From what I hear, DT dungeons and such are pretty okay in terms of damage output and difficulty, giving healers more to do in general most of the time.

One issue is more about old content being left in the dust even though it's the majority of content that gets ran due to levelling different jobs and new players. Pre shadowbringers, the game is not much more than fighting striking dummies.

This is an issue too, because the game does not teach players how to be good at the game as they play it. Honestly, menphina's earring makes levelling new jobs way too fast. You can't learn the job as fast as you level it, but this is to cater to nolifers, raiders, and also to shift focus away from old content saying hey look at the new rides at the theme park.

That's why there are unskilled players who get to level 50 and don't even understand they need to press buttons in an order they light up in. At level 60 players still don't even understand not to stand in aoe indicators. At level 70 the difficulty suddenly ramps up, and then ramps up more at level 80 and mid 90s, though the endgame lvl 90 content is back to striking dummies like the alliance raids, aetherfront and lunar subterrane.

No one thinks there should be a lot to healer dps additions, just that there should be a little more, and it should never punish or disincentivize returning to casting healing. Adding a stack building mechanic to glare for another attack, a second unique dot like a whirlwind aoe you place on the ground, and maybe cleric stance at a high level like lvl 100 aren't going to break the game, and aren't necessary to optimize or even use to be able to clear casual content. That healer can do nothing but heal and glare and be just fine and no one will care that a dungeon takes one minute longer (except xeno).

Honestly when I heal, I doze off and space out or have to have something to watch on too and I drop tanks and dps I could have saved just because I'm bored, and then someone gets hit by an aoe at full hp, but because they have 1 vuln stack, they take 80% of their hp as damage and then die before I wake back up. The content being too easy breeds a lack of skill AND a lack of reason to try AND a lack of attentiveness.

Everyone agrees, DPS jobs are for if you want to dps. We say many times, we do not want to dps on healers. We want to be casting healing 90% of the time, not glare. But that also doesn't mean we can't have more than 1 button to press for that remaining 10% of the time. Every aspect of the role should be engaging, fun, and meaningful.

And lastly... this is a video game. If someone lacks the skill to complete a piece of content, they're going to be stuck on it. And this is an MMO, which means you're going to have to work together and communicate when difficulty comes up. If a healer is dropping the party because they get too distracted trying to DPS, it's up to you to communicate kindly that this is difficult brand new content, and maybe they should just focus on healing alone for now. In that way, wiping is as much the entire party's fault as it is the healer's fault.

It may be rough, but no video game can cater to the lowest common denominator 10% of players and expect to succeed while ignoring 90% of midcore casuals. If they really have trouble completing content, there's something for them too, the trust system.
The issue is, the complete lack of any difficulty until lvl 70 breeds unskilled players, whereas if they introduced challenge more gradually, these players would be more skilled by the time they get to lvl 95 content.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

No thanks. I have situations where both of these are useful.

Adding to explain - I like being able to decide if I want to use a Lily immediately. If I'm under no pressure I'd rather save a Lily and Medica, especially if I'm mostly using Lilies on the MT. It's a micro-decision that sometimes does not mean much, but having an insta-cast lily and saving it for moving vs. hard-casting is a decision I want to be able to make for myself.

I am fine like many if they just upgraded Cure1 into Cure2. I can't think of any situations lately where Cure1 is worth the time to cast over doing anything else at all.

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... where? Medica II is a 250 base potency heal with a 150 regen tick over the span of 15 seconds. A single tick puts the total potency between the two at equal value; with Media being 400. All with only 100 MP difference. In the event you need a non-Lily GCD heal, Medica II is the far superior choice in 99.9% of scenarios. With the upgrade to Medica III, Medica is pretty much the AoE equivalent of Cure I.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

... where? Medica II is a 250 base potency heal with a 150 regen tick over the span of 15 seconds. A single tick puts the total potency between the two at equal value; with Media being 400. All with only 100 MP difference. In the event you need a non-Lily GCD heal, Medica II is the far superior choice in 99.9% of scenarios. With the upgrade to Medica III, Medica is pretty much the AoE equivalent of Cure I.

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In situations where I have Medica 2 already running, and the party is taking a lot of damage and I am either out lilies or want them for something else that may happen in the near future.

Whether I need to move or not matters too.

Or if I have Misery up, and I can't take the time to use it yet because I need to heal, and would rather use my lily after I can cast it.

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Originally Posted by HealerGuy

The problem is none of you are offering no solutions, just complaints.
You need to be able to access any DPS added on the main controller cross hotabar and the upper one. Every slot is already used.

So on WHM, what spells do you want removed and how would you replace them to add DPS?

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Objection: Asked and Answered!

To the first point, of cross hotbar slots: You have far more access to hotbar slots via controller, compared to trying to bind the same amount of keys on PC. To reach the controller's easy-to-access 64 hotbar spots, KB/M would need a total of 5 and a bit hotbars. So, no modifier, CTRL, SHIFT, ALT, and then two more bars with some combination of those modifiers. You might want to look at your setup again if you're struggling to access some of your hotbar space. Additionally, while WHM might fill your hotbars (it doesn't, you have far more space, you just might not be aware of it), what do you do for something like SCH, which has more buttons than WHM? Do you just leave stuff off? What stuff did you leave off, useless crap like Repose, or actually useful things like Fey Blessing/Illumination?

To the second point, of 'you're not offering any solutions, just complaints', it's all well and good trying to hit people with the 'what's your solution' gotcha when you expect they have no background in game design and have to respond with 'well idk, I'm not a game developer', but unfortunately, some of us DO have backgrounds in game development. So, once again for the god-knows-how-many-times time: 'How I would change WHM so it is fun to play in all content and not just the hardest 5 fights per 8 months'.

Or, if you don't want to actually click a link because you were hoping to instantly win the argument, here's the cheatsheet. Bear in mind this was written before DT details were out (Hence Glare being assumed to be 310p):

* Dia reduced to 12s, potency reduced to compensate (I have it at 150p, plus 70p per tick, for a total of 430p)

* New action, Water, learned at level 15. This is an instantcast GCD with a 15s CD, and scales in level alongside Stone. Upon learning Glare, this upgrades to Banish. It is always 40p stronger than your current Stone/Glare potency.

* A 0-100 gauge is added, the Nature's Vigilance gauge. Casting any spell that doesn't consume Lilies fills the gauge (healing spells fill it far faster). Upon reaching 50 or more gauge, you can cast...

* New action, Blessing of the Elementals, learned at level 50. This is a GCD which heals the party for 500p of healing (more than Rapture/Medica, less than Cure3), and restores 500MP.
It also grants a Petal of each Natural Element, allowing...

* New action, Quake. Consumes a Petal of Earthen Ire, and replaces Stone/Glare on the hotbar while a Petal is active (like WAR's Inner Chaos/FellCleave). Deals 100p more than your Stone/Glare.

* New action, Tornado. Consumes a Petal of Wrathful Winds, and replaces Aero/Dia on the hotbar while a Petal is active (like WAR's Inner Chaos/FellCleave).
Deals 30p more than your Aero/Dia, and 20p more DOT potency per tick (total 110p higher)

* New action, Flood. Consumes a Petal of Raging Rivers, and replaces Water/Banish on the hotbar while a Petal is active (like WAR's Inner Chaos/FellCleave). Deals 100p more than your Water/Banish.

* Quake, Tornado and Flood's potency totals up to be 4 Glares worth of potency, in 3 GCDs. This causes the three spells to function as a 'refund' for the lost GCD due to casting Blessing of the Elementals.


In total, due to the hotbar-swap effect of the Petals consolidating Quake/Tornado/Flood, this would take only two hotbar slots. And by having Cure upgrade to Cure 2 (MP cost 500), and Medica upgrade to Medica 2 (MP cost 1000), that two hotbar slots becomes zero. Any extra hotbar space allowed (eg, since SCH has as many buttons as it does, WHM being allowed to go up to that many but not over) would in fact not be dedicated to more damage buttons with my design, but more healing, ironically. I would add a Lily spender, ST and AOE versions (2 hotbar slots used) that apply a Barrier to the target/Party. Introduced at lower levels so that the Lily Gauge can be introduced at level 30 instead of 52, I would bring back Stoneskin, and Stoneskin2 (now named Graniteskin). In the 70s, I'd then have them upgrade to Afflatus Bastion, and Afflatus Sanctuary, to keep with the Afflatus naming. These barrier Lily spenders would additionally allow for the WHM to have something 'useful' to dump Lilies on when preparing a Misery, rather than 'wasting' them on pure overhealing. I would introduce many MANY 'lower level' versions of things, such as Protect (raidwide mitigation on a 60s CD, upgrades to Plenary which inherits the Protect effect in addition to its current effect), Divine Seal (Temperance's healing magic boost without the mit, upgrades to Temperance), or Afflatus Tragedy (lower level version of Afflatus Misery, teaching players about how Afflatus spells are damage neutral to use).

By doing the 'main' changes listed here (just Water, BOTE and the associated Gauge), our gameplay loop per 2 minutes goes from:

36 Glares (now 33 thanks to Glare4)
4 Dias
6 Solace/Rapture
2 Miseries

TO:

18 Glares (now 15 thanks to Glare4)
8 Dias
6 Banishes
6 Solace/Rapture/Bastion/Sanctuaries
2 Miseries
2 Blessing of the Elementals
2 Quakes
2 Tornados
2 Floods

How about a diagram? They say 'a picture is worth a thousand words', so, here's a pie chart showing what we used per 2 minutes at the time (Endwalker), and how that changes with this design. To convert these diagrams to Dawntrail-mode, subtract 3 uses from Glare on each pie chart and allocate them to a new slice called Glare 4

https://i.gyazo.com/36a244fba1d398a4...94b64c0071.png

See how much healthier the ''Abilities You Cast Per 2 Minutes' Distribution' looks in the second picture? It looks like an actual MMO class' CPM breakdown! Additionally, since Dia, Banish, Tornado, Flood, Blessing of the Elementals, all Lily spenders AND Misery are instantcasts, this means that WHM would have completely free mobility for over half of its damage rotation, which makes the design incredibly casual/newplayer friendly. By giving Quake/Flood/Tornado 50% damage falloff in AOE, and having Holy generate Vigilance gauge, this also allows AOE gameplay (eg. Dungeons) to go from one button (Holy) to FIVE (Holy, Blessing of the Elementals, Quake, Flood, Tornado). This would make even the lowest level gameplay, of doing roulettes for tomes, feel much more satisfying.

Optimization players would enjoy finding ways to rig their healing cooldown timings, such that they can use Blessing of the Elementals as the last two GCDs before going into the Raidbuff Window, thus allowing them to get the 'refund' via Quake Flood and Tornado inside raidbuffs (as we do with Misery currently). Said Raidbuff window might look something like: POM > Flood > Tornado > Quake > Quake > Misery > Flood > Tornado.

Casual players would enjoy this design equally, I believe, as they would not only have less 'punishment' from playing 'incorrectly' from certain changes (eg spamming Dia for movement is less DPS loss in this than it is ingame), I believe they would enjoy the VFX and 'power' feeling of the new actions, such as using Quake/Tornado/Flood to decimate dungeon packs. Even a 'I heal only, no damage' player would enjoy the majority of this design, as it adds ONE damage button bind (Water/Banish), and THREE healing binds (BOTE, Afflatus Bastion, Afflatus Sanctuary). It also makes the levelling process feel a lot more 'filled out' with more actions available at lower levels, which also helps veteran players who are doing their 1000th roulette and get Aurum Vale again

All of this, and it all stems from just two hotbar slots (Water, and Blessing of the Elementals). So if anyone wants to try the tired 'well I don't see you coming up with a solution', I did and I have. I could write as much as is in this post, twice over, for each of the four healers, because I want to see their gameplay improve from where it is currently. I've written designs for all four of the healer jobs, given them a 'rework' that emphasises their identity more via their gameplay, each of the healers in said designs is differentiated from one another in how they heal AND how their damage rotations function. I could talk for DAYS about how Healer design could be improved. And I'm some unpaid goob on the forums, not SE's job design team, so...

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Anyone who has ever requested any change for any game on any forum was in the minority. That is not a valid counter to any feedback.

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It's not a counter, it's simply putting it into perspective. If your first thought was that 'this is an opponent to my view so I need to invalidate a fact' then you're fighting uphill already.

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There is room to make dps buttons more interesting then using 1 button 70% of the time, without going overboard and overwhelming players.

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As many people have said on their own accounts in how things evolved since ARR, I don't think this is possible. The irony is that the strike group appears to ignore the issues for general healers and are more focused on raid caliber issues. The less attractive you make healing to people looking to try it, the less growth you'll have in the long run.

There would have to be a fundamental change to how all the healers kits are and shift it more toward a proper GCD DPS rotation while keeping heals predominantly oGCD. That's how raid healers heal anyway... good ones that is. The need to have to DPS race every battle makes healers just another DPS in the long run since ARR. Hard casting heals are frowned upon (mostly) and healing partners are expected to cover the other essentially. By design, you're encouraged to ensure you never use GCDs to hard cast heals. So new healers aren't going to want to play like that because a majority of the community doesn't want to play like that.

COULD they redesign how healers heal and DPS, sure. But they would have to strike a perfect balance between casuals and raiders and that has not happened so far. I totally agree with you that 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 is a horrible dps rotation, but, and I say this with the utmost respect, not everyone is going to be able to handle a little more than that. It's already been proven.

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Some more dps button variation wouldn't need extensive rebalancing of end game. More unavoidable damage wouldn't require extensive rebalancing of end game. Lowering WAR healing so it doesn't rival healers wouldn't requiring extensive rebalancing of end game.

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With what you're asking for, it does. Which is why, as many of the more prominent people in this thread have said they've 'protested' or 'been on strike' for years, hasn't convinced SE to make such a change that would essentially lose people. Think of how much healers changed from ARR til now. That's a major fundamental change over the years in how a person plays a healer.

And as a Warrior main, you lost me at the end. bwahahahahaha. No need to hamstring other jobs to fix the issues with other jobs. That's not balancing, that's just hubris.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I never said don't provide feedback and suggestions.

I said we need to learn acceptance that we're not always going to get what we want.

As for it not being SE's game, sorry but it is. They own the game. They make the game they want to make. They can choose to listen to and implement feedback they receive, or they can choose to ignore it. They're not going to lose all the current subscribers over this because most players don't have a stake in this strike and find it more humorous than convincing.

Some of us originally came into the thread to try to discuss the problems and find common ground but got ridiculed because we didn't agree with everything the strikers said. Most gave up since the strikers were not interested in having that productive conversation you envision. The strikers themselves aren't even unified regarding what change is needed. There may be no common ground in this situation because not even the strikers have managed to find one beyond agreement they don't like the state of healing.

So can the strikers accept that even among themselves not everyone will be pleased by whatever the outcome is? That there's a strong chance that none of them will end up pleased because SE will stick to the status quo if what the posters from the JP forums said earlier in the thread was accurate about JP players being fine with healing how it is?

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I'll repeat, it doesn't matter if Square "owns the game". I can make a car than runs on square wheels, if no one is interested in it, then who cares? Similarly, Square does not build the game for themselves, they build in features for an end consumer in mind. Yes, they can have a product vision, but if no one likes it, or if enough people start to dislike- that vision is garbage and it is literally scrapped- and sometimes the product manager is as well.

If you don't fid this thread of use, that's fine. That's your viewpoint. That's not shared by everyone. I do not find it necessary to make progress give up because "everyone" needs to be unified, I don't find it necessary to please "everyone", nor do I have any special insight into how Square's internal decision processes so I can definitely say who they listen to.

As a veteran player, I believe the balance in the earlier version (with classes, not jobs) was excellent. Back then, healers weren't restricted to a specific role. Their skills could be applied to almost any other class, creating a more well-rounded gameplay experience. While that system wasn't for everyone, it offered a unique way to approach the game. In my opinion, removing these shared abilities hurt the game's balance. As a healer main, I saw this as a potential issue even way back then, and it's impacted the overall balance ever since.