Asmongold on NSFW mods

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

"The internet is really really great..."
- "For ..." >: D

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Pictures of cute kittens? :o

https://i.imgur.com/k8LAbVb.jpg

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Originally Posted by Raasu

Just going to quote this since it explains exactly what's wrong with this thread (and nope, it's not the mods or ERP in general).

I'm guessing most people got tired of the same few people making up phantom arguments they can rally against while being flexible with their own views. Looking at the latest five pages or so, the newest hottest take is that minors are actually lying about their age and are forcing or tricking adults into engaging with them. Cool.

Meanwhile, laws don't matter, ToS doesn't matter, personal views and requests from Yoshida and the development team don't matter either. Everything is perfect, the community is great and if you even slightly disagree you're probably a Puritan Karen who's forcing others to babysit kids and also definitely a bigger creep yourself.

In the end the most damning thing is that Square doesn't moderate this forum at all so now people get their space to go full-on Lord of the Flies up here.

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They are far removed from reality and it shows. Most players that play this game aren't like this and are quite aware of how disgusting this behavior is.

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Originally Posted by Raasu

Just going to quote this since it explains exactly what's wrong with this thread (and nope, it's not the mods or ERP in general).

I'm guessing most people got tired of the same few people making up phantom arguments they can rally against while being flexible with their own views. Looking at the latest five pages or so, the newest hottest take is that minors are actually lying about their age and are forcing or tricking adults into engaging with them. Cool.

Meanwhile, laws don't matter, ToS doesn't matter, personal views and requests from Yoshida and the development team don't matter either. Everything is perfect, the community is great and if you even slightly disagree you're probably a Puritan Karen who's forcing others to babysit kids and also definitely a bigger creep yourself.

In the end the most damning thing is that Square doesn't moderate this forum at all so now people get their space to go full-on Lord of the Flies up here.

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All people are arguing for is the ability to use NSFW mods and ERP with other adults. There are no "laws" against any of it, so don't be obtuse.

People who don't like those 2 things are doing what people always do when they want to take a disingenuous, dramatic stance against something they don't like; they're making it about children. The solution to this issue with children becoming involved in communities that ARE NOT for them is simple; these children need better parents. That's it... The world doesn't need to change; communities excised; adult activities removed; people just need to start watching their kids.

Seriously, a little supervisions solves EVERYTHING.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

It's against the TOS so why are you arguing for it? This isn't second life, so the space is for teens as much as it is for adults. I don't have a problem with either mods or ERP, most of us don't care, but half of you started rolling the.. It's not their fault to be attracted to children :c, saying art/mods depicting minors are A-okay, comparing it to LGBT, and caring more about these people's rights than those of the victims.

Please just stop.

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A lot of you were making incorrect and honestly ridiculous claims about how pedophilia works, so of course you were being corrected. Art Mods depicting fictional characters are also fine; there are no actual children involved in the creation or use of any of those. If you want to protect children then protect ACTUAL children; trying to protect ryne, alphinaud, lalafels or whatever from 'exploitation' just makes you sound ridiculous and out of touch with reality. Those characters aren't real people, so what the modding community does with them in private is immaterial.

The real problem with these communities are things like grooming and targeting real life children, which are isolated/individual problems that don't justify attacking the communities as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Raasu

Yeah thanks, you've been doing the same thing for a while now: picking out random words to reply to while ignoring the actual points and then it all goes in circles down the drain again. Especially glaring in this example since I explicitly mentioned it wasn't about mods or ERP and then you still decided to reply to me and focus on those things.

I do agree with one thing though, a little moderator supervision on this forum could solve a lot in this particular case.

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That wasn't a counterargument; I was informing you of what people here are arguing for, since you seemed unaware.

One side is arguing for the removal of NSFW content and ERP because kids might become involved, and the other is arguing to keep those things and put more pressure on parents to actually watch their kids.

It's against the TOS so why are you arguing for it? This isn't second life, so the space is for teens as much as it is for adults. I don't have a problem with either mods or ERP, most of us don't care, but half of you started rolling the.. It's not their fault to be attracted to children :c, saying art/mods depicting minors are A-okay, comparing it to LGBT, and caring more about these people's rights than those of the victims.

Please just stop.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

All people are arguing for is the ability to use NSFW mods and ERP with other adults. There are no "laws" against any of it, so don't be obtuse.

People who don't like those 2 things are doing what people always do when they want to take a disingenuous, dramatic stance against something they don't like; they're making it about children. The solution to this issue with children becoming involved in communities that ARE NOT for them is simple; these children need better parents. That's it... The world doesn't need to change; communities excised; adult activities removed; people just need to start watching their kids.

Seriously, a little supervisions solves EVERYTHING.

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Yeah thanks, you've been doing the same thing for a while now: picking out random words to reply to while ignoring the actual points and then it all goes in circles down the drain again. Especially glaring in this example since I explicitly mentioned it wasn't about mods or ERP and then you still decided to reply to me and focus on those things.

I do agree with one thing though, a little moderator supervision on this forum could solve a lot in this particular case.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

All people are arguing for is the ability to use NSFW mods and ERP with other adults. There are no "laws" against any of it, so don't be obtuse.

People who don't like those 2 things are doing what people always do when they want to take a disingenuous, dramatic stance against something they don't like; they're making it about children. The solution to this issue with children becoming involved in communities that ARE NOT for them is simple; these children need better parents. That's it... The world doesn't need to change; communities excised; adult activities removed; people just need to start watching their kids.

Seriously, a little supervisions solves EVERYTHING.

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That is not what is happening, though. SE also does not want you to do that either. So don't do it. Simple. SE sees someone using a parser on stream, while not harassing people = No ban. SE sees someone ERPing = ban.

Also supervising what? They are playing a video made with their age in mind. You are acting like the children and their parents are wrong, because they are going by the game rating and the parent doesn't sit with the child throughout the gameplay. But the adult that ERPs with someone they don't know or maybe even DMs the kids out of the blue is totally innocent.

People in this thread complain about phantom arguments in this thread, but everyone has heard stories, witnessed something themselves, or were even a victim of something. The more someone like you tries to argue that is doesn't happen, the more suspicious you look.

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Originally Posted by Raasu

Yeah thanks, you've been doing the same thing for a while now: picking out random words to reply to while ignoring the actual points and then it all goes in circles down the drain again. Especially glaring in this example since I explicitly mentioned it wasn't about mods or ERP and then you still decided to reply to me and focus on those things.

I do agree with one thing though, a little moderator supervision on this forum could solve a lot in this particular case.

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So you advocate to ban certain things as those are unappropriate, endangerment for children and support "pedos" and negative "international" perception of the game, but not really? As You are not against "ERP" and "Mods".
You know, when You use forums to discuss topic/s, Your last message is not onyly one You posted? People look back and read Your whole stance, not onyly last thought.

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Originally Posted by Lenivy

So you advocate to ban certain things as those are unappropriate, endangerment for children and for "pedos" but not really?

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I honestly have no idea what you're even saying here.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

People in this thread complain about phantom arguments in this thread, but everyone has heard stories, witnessed something themselves, or were even a victim of something. The more someone like you tries to argue that is doesn't happen, the more suspicious you look.

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I'd like to point out that while I've heard of pickpocketing, I've never been a victim of one, nor have any of the people I know. Am I suspicious of something due to that? What kind of an argument is that? If anything, that makes people either sheltered or secured, not perpetrators.

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Originally Posted by Xasapis

I'd like to point out that while I've heard of pickpocketing, I've never been a victim of one, nor have any of the people I know. Am I suspicious of something due to that? What kind of an argument is that? If anything, that makes people either sheltered or secured, not perpetrators.

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You don't deny that pickpocketing exists, which is the point.

When someone claims that there is no issue with people approaching minors and other adults in a certain unwanted way, there are people on the forums that witnessed or were even a victim of it, and it is stated repeatedly, then yes the person denying it is suspicious.

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Originally Posted by Lenivy

So you advocate to ban certain things as those are unappropriate, endangerment for children and support "pedos" and negative "international" perception of the game, but not really? As You are not against "ERP" and "Mods".
You know, when You use forums to discuss topic/s, Your last message is not onyly one You posted? People look back and read Your whole stance, not onyly last thought.

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These things are already banned though

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

These things are already banned though

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Is ERP against the ToS? I'm guessing not since ERP communities are allowed to advertise on PF without any action from SE.

As for Mods, it's true, ALL mods are banned. So if you've ever defended parsers, simple UI mods or graphic mods remember that those things don't belong in the game and shouldn't exist.

Plenty of people don't mind Mods, though, as long as they aren't hurting anyone.

It is against Terms of Service.

I also pointed out people will not be banned for using a parser on stream. They will be banned for ERPing or using a NSFW mod on stream.

SE does not want people to be harassed over parsing numbers, but they don't want ERP or NSFW modding at all.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

That is not what is happening, though. SE also does not want you to do that either. So don't do it. Simple. SE sees someone using a parser on stream, while not harassing people = No ban. SE sees someone ERPing = ban.

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This is entirely untrue. You're only banned for public ERP, which is typically classified as spam/vulgarity. And even then, it needs to be quite excessive. Do it in a party or private linkshell and they literally don't care. As someone who used to be on Balmung and knew that scene. Believe me, they don't do anything whatsoever provided it's outside public chats.

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Originally Posted by Plushy

Asmongold recently did a interview with someone on nsfw mods and lewd gposing.
If I remember right yoshi said this can be serious trouble for FFXIV because someone could look at a post of a lewd image of a lalafell or the twins/ ryne and learn its from FFXIV and this is what the game could show.

You think after this interview SE is gonna double down on bans? Seeing as asmon is one of the biggest MMO streamers its not hard to think a SE employee or two was watching.

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No, Square Enix won't do anything as long as client-side mods do not prevent others from enjoying the game, and most of them don't because other players can't see them in game. As for out of game screenshots - SE doesn't care just like they don't care about art that people draw because they know people will continue doing it anyway whether SE likes it or not, people will just hide their in-game character names which is easy to do. Even if SE will start automatically banning players who have specific software tools installed on their PC - they can't stop people from making digital art using in-game characters with any kind of visual changes they want to.

As for Asmongold himself - it doesn't seem like he genuinely likes his game (every time I watched the stream it felt like he is forcing himself to play it because this is a popular game now, especially since he never plays other MMORPGs like GW2 and he himself said that "there is no audience for it" when he mentioned GW2) and will hopefully quit it pretty soon. Which I personally consider a GOOD thing because he won't be able to stir artificial controversies like this anymore or won't be able to do things like telling his fanbase to /spit (or use other rude emotes) on players who use specific mounts because he doesn't like those mounts (like he did in WoW after Classic TBC release) or encourage other forms of toxicity in community.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This is entirely untrue. You're only banned for public ERP, which is typically classified as spam/vulgarity. And even then, it needs to be quite excessive. Do it in a party or private linkshell and they literally don't care. As someone who used to be on Balmung and knew that scene. Believe me, they don't do anything whatsoever provided it's outside public chats.

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On a stream. Context.

Edit: Just look at your own quote, and you will see it.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This is entirely untrue. You're only banned for public ERP, which is typically classified as spam/vulgarity. And even then, it needs to be quite excessive. Do it in a party or private linkshell and they literally don't care. As someone who used to be on Balmung and knew that scene. Believe me, they don't do anything whatsoever provided it's outside public chats.

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Well it's hard to report it if people cannot see it, same with mods. Doesn't mean it's not against TOS.
If you were to try and send tells to randoms with explicit language you'd likely get reported.

Why is it people generally get upset when someone wishes to attribute responsibility for their childw behavior on them? I am not a parent and I cannot imagine how difficult it is to raise a child but that does not excuse parents for shirking their parent's parental responsibilities and duties to raise their child with a proper understanding of consequence and educate them on the dangers of the world around them. Laws and rules are not the ultimate protection nor is it the responsibility of companies or the community to pick up the slack for the parents. Laws are reactive witch hunts can be started just on mere allegations.

Parents need to do more to protect their children they need to monitor what their kids do to the best of their ability. Do not get me wrong it is unfortunate when children are taken advantage of by with guility until proven innocent the unfortunate truth is often harm has to be done for action to be taken in the legal sense. As such parents need to the proactive force that does what they can to limit their childs exposure to risk and harm.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Why is it people generally get upset when someone wishes to attribute responsibility for their childw behavior on them? I am not a parent and I cannot imagine how difficult it is to raise a child but that does not excuse parents for shirking their parent's parental responsibilities and duties to raise their child with a proper understanding of consequence and educate them on the dangers of the world around them. Laws and rules are not the ultimate protection nor is it the responsibility of companies or the community to pick up the slack for the parents. Laws are reactive witch hunts can be started just on mere allegations.

Parents need to do more to protect their children they need to monitor what their kids do to the best of their ability. Do not get me wrong it is unfortunate when children are taken advantage of by with guility until proven innocent the unfortunate truth is often harm has to be done for action to be taken in the legal sense. As such parents need to the proactive force that does what they can to limit their childs exposure to risk and harm.

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They aren't being irresponsible. The perverts are.

T for Teen. How many times do people have to tell you?

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

They aren't being irresponsible. The perverts are.

T for Teen. How many times do people have to tell you?

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How many times do I have to tell you that rules and laws or in this case ratings are not some protective barrier that means people can drop their guard. Parents are being irresponsible when they let their guard down because they make an assumption then any place on the internet is a safe space. Parents and people need to understand that the world is not and safe ideal place dangers can lurk around every croner of their and their childrens / loved ones lives. Rules / laws / rating / guidelines are reactive by nature. Only ourselves and in the case of children parents can proactively protect and mitigate potential harm.

Though I am sorry parents need to educate and monitor their childrens behavior better end of story. Sure it is a T rated game but this is the internet and this game has adults playing. Thus parents should be well aware of what goes on in the world of the internet and they should know deviates exist.

Also being a T rated game means parents need to be even more aware. Cause teens are sexually active and curious so they need to be made aware of what can happen on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

They aren't being irresponsible. The perverts are.

T for Teen. How many times do people have to tell you?

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T for teen? Ok so why does this game have sexual content in it? If it is T for teen and sexual content is bad. Where is the same outrage to the developers?
Also it is a online game, and that rating can change don't they have that in the tos or something, a warning that online games rating can change?

Teens are very sexual and think about it all the time. So you saying T for Teen means nothing.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

They aren't being irresponsible. The perverts are.

T for Teen. How many times do people have to tell you?

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How about you read all of the detail of the rating that indicates why they rated it Teen instead of just making assumptions based on the single letter on the box? Or that final addendum that says "Online interactions not rated by ESRB"

Also how about you stop trying to enabling the behavior of irresponsible parents by trying to shift the blame elsewhere? The only people with any legal responsibility in the case of the child argument would be the parent/guardian of the child as they are the ones legally responsible for that child until they are an adult. And in some cases even after they are an adult.

I get it sucks it is easier to place all the blame on the ine who commited the action. It allows us to go on with our lives repeating that simple mantra, " Nothing I could have done."

From personal experience that is rarely ever the case something always could have been done just a matter if would it have changed anything unfortunately that is not always possible to know. Though the question remains why not make sure to do everything within your power to limit potential risk on a personal level. I do not understand this trust people place in others when it comes to their protections. It is nice to have but I would never trust it as my first and last form of defense from harm.

I am talking about law, rules, regulations, companies, government etc . . . Call me paranoid but I just think people should come to terms with the fact only behavior one can control is your owns and in certain cases your childern. Children need their parents to protect themselves from their impulses and dumb choices and in some cases own up to the mistakes of their children and take responsibility for them.

It is one's responsibility not to be a creepy, prevy predator in a space in which you know you might be interacting with minors. It's not hard to understand this, but I guess it is for some people. Furthermore, online interactions not rated by the esrb is not a legal defense.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

It is one's responsibility not to be a creepy, prevy predator in a space in which you know you might be interacting with minors. It's not hard to understand this, but I guess it is for some people. Furthermore, online interactions not rated by the esrb is not a legal defense.

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That is in an ideal world we do not live in such a world. Sure it would be lovely if everyone online behaved like that but sadly that is not the case. So sadlg the responsibility shifts on us to do what we can to minimize our own personal risk to be exposed to content or behavior we personally do not see fit for us to see or consume.

Which also means it becomes the responsibility of the parent to make sure their child is not exposed to such content either as much as they can. It is a messed up world we live in.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I mean if parents cannot raise their kids to not lie about their age then imo the parents and the child lose all rights to call foul of something were to happen. Do not play with fire if you do not want to get burned.

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While there are many if's to that its true, I just checked and you dont find it on english wikipedia but a 13 years ago there was that case of a german 17yo hitting on a - what he though to be - 15yo british girl during a turkey vacation, they went to bed n stuff... but she lied and was only 13.

And while she had no business been there and all he went to jail for like 8 months... just bc she needed to lie about her age...


And i knew many girls doing that, a friends sister and her friends, heck she literally stole my friends porn to watch it when being like 13 xD
At school many girls faked IDs to get into clubs... at like 16 we had some girls who literally were out till 4am...

Compared to all that nothing ingame comes even close >_>

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

They aren't being irresponsible. The perverts are.

T for Teen. How many times do people have to tell you?

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Here is the thing about that. https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/esrb.htm & https://www.esrb.org/faqs/#who-decid...ld-be-assigned

Years ago i played a game called breath of fire dragon quarter for the ps2. Now there is character called nina (https://bof.fandom.com/wiki/Nina_(Br...Dragon_Quarter)) in it. There was scene of her where she was nude. Mind you she is 12. But they gave that a teen rating

Lying is a part of growing up, it is what kids do. Anyone who thinks it is fair to punish a child for lying has forgotten what it is like to be a kid.

Prevents and paedophiles are the issue here end of story I do not care if they lied one should not be looking to engage in sexual activities within a game that has minors playing. For those that defend such actions I do hope you end up on some watch list or something cause defending someone that unwilling or willing engages in sexual acts where minors can be found are no better then the ones who committed the act.

How can one defend being attracted to child, that is just sick.

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Originally Posted by Jadedsins

T for teen? Ok so why does this game have sexual content in it? If it is T for teen and sexual content is bad. Where is the same outrage to the developers?
Also it is a online game, and that rating can change don't they have that in the tos or something, a warning that online games rating can change?

Teens are very sexual and think about it all the time. So you saying T for Teen means nothing.

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It means teens are allowed to play, so don't walk up and try to ERP with them.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

It means teens are allowed to play, so don't walk up and try to ERP with them.

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but they think about it all the time, that makes it ok to sexually harass them. /s

Have there ever been this many tags on a single forum thread in the history of the FFXIV forum board?

Also, to be more on topic, i found this touching grass gif.
https://i.imgur.com/cckq3aV.gif

I don't fully understand the fascination of touching grass, but it does look like fun. : D

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

but they think about it all the time, that makes it ok to sexually harass them. /s

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No one is or ever will be romantically interested in your offspring, so stop worrying.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

No one is or ever will be romantically interested in your offspring, so stop worrying.

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Jesus Christ.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...73/294/89b.png

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

No one is or ever will be romantically interested in your offspring, so stop worrying.

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I am wheezing. That was too good, my guy.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

It means teens are allowed to play, so don't walk up and try to ERP with them.

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I do not see anyone advocating to walk up to minors are ERP with. Not sure where you are getting this from.

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Originally Posted by Awha

That is in an ideal world we do not live in such a world. Sure it would be lovely if everyone online behaved like that but sadly that is not the case. So sadlg the responsibility shifts on us to do what we can to minimize our own personal risk to be exposed to content or behavior we personally do not see fit for us to see or consume.

Which also means it becomes the responsibility of the parent to make sure their child is not exposed to such content either as much as they can. It is a messed up world we live in.

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You can tell people who have lived a life of luxury and comfort because they lack the understanding that personal responsibility is the only thing preventing most people from being victimized. That claiming a moral highground as sheep when wolves are around only makes them an easy meal. It is irresponsible to not focus on teaching people to look out for themselves rather than to focus on playing the victim after. You are truly wasting your time on these people no matter what you will do anchoring bias and normalcy bias has them so firmly in their grip you are better off sending your text out into the abyss hoping for a response from cthulu.

Many of us are well aware of the horrors that exist in the world, actually - which is precisely why we fight against such things.

I could write a lot of words in response to the disgusting attempts to deflect blame onto the victims, but very few of them would be appropriate for this forum.

What I will say, however, is that it a common and unfortunate tactic for abusers to attempt to shed any and all responsibility on both a direct and indirect level. I'm sure anybody who has survived abuse themselves, though, happens to be well aware of the way in which charm, gaslighting, deflection, manipulation, mockery and all sorts of other weapons are deployed against those who speak up or speak out.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

but they think about it all the time, that makes it ok to sexually harass them. /s

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I mean if a kid lies about age, and hits on someone, and yes that happens often I am told by some rpers. They are sexually harassing adults. Are you going to be just as upset about that?

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

It means teens are allowed to play, so don't walk up and try to ERP with them.

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Because kids don't lie about age? You still did not answer the question. If sexual content is so bad. Why are you not upset with the game?

From what I was told. The erp happens without any OOC talk. So most of them don't even ask about age or want to know nothing about the people in real life. I mean how would they even prove it?


Look, just admit that ERP will happen and these kids will find a way even if you defend them. It is not up to the community to stop erping because of teens. And you or the developers can't stop it. Like I said even if they enforce some crazy rules and start watching people private chat. People will just take it to discord once they meet in game.


What are you going to do about that? Protest discord?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Many of us are well aware of the horrors that exist in the world, actually - which is precisely why we fight against such things.

I could write a lot of words in response to the disgusting attempts to deflect blame onto the victims, but very few of them would be appropriate for this forum.

What I will say, however, is that it a common and unfortunate tactic for abusers to attempt to shed any and all responsibility on both a direct and indirect level. I'm sure anybody who has survived abuse themselves, though, happens to be well aware of the way in which charm, gaslighting, deflection, manipulation, mockery and all sorts of other weapons are deployed against those who speak up or speak out.

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Either some of you have reading comprehension issues, or that this issue clouds people judgement.
Nothing the community, the developers, or any of us can do to stop kids from being sexual harassed, or kids sexual harrassing adults.
What answers you have? Get rid of mods? Ok Erp still will happen. Get rid of erp? Ok they will just move to discord.
ERP has been part of mmorpg history even back in UO days, or when people did it in chat rooms like talk city. So you can't get rid of it. So again besides hoping parents teach kids better. Not a single thing anyone can do. I accept the lesser evil of it. But hey you all don't got to do it.
I just don't understand how we are using logic and clearly stating how things are. It gets twisted some how that we support pedos, or that we "blame the victims".

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

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This isn't just some child wandering around. It's a 13+ mmorpg. It's called a time and place. Adults shouldn't be advertising ERP, or having public access venues. This completely goes against the "being done in private" narrative, in my opinion, "well we said 18+ at the door".. A player cannot (or shouldn't) be able to do an ACTUAL background check that keeps underage people out of "adult" venues, like in real life. Frankly, I don't think many players are too concerned with that, because they can then blame all the fault on "bad parenting". Again, it's called taking responsibility. If one must participate in things like ERP or NSFW modding - it should be kept truly private. It's why I assume the GMs were cracking down on advertisements claiming "18+", and citing the age rating. It's not being done in private. Children are curious and impressionable, and this game is available for a wide variety of ages. Again, I think the "bad parenting" argument only stands if this were an AO game with explicit themes, and these sort of interactions are expected.