All Greed on Alliance loot

this change is bad I lost on a gear I could have used for the class I came in on to someone on another class that was constantly lagging on the last fight and it sucks this was a horrible idea to implement

How about keep it as it is, but everyone gets a token to spend on a piece of gear they actually want. Maybe even reduce the amount of loot dropped to 1 per chest.

I really would like Yoshida or the community team to reply to us on this issue. For western servers, I have not seen any positive comments on the Greed change. Now far too many spoils in raids (equipment, upgrade items, minions, cards) rely on dumb luck, which makes me even less interested to try.

It would be nice to get a response from a moderator. How many threads is this now about this topic ? 4? A response would be welcome please . Thank you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Linx0r

It would be nice to get a response from a moderator. How many threads is this now about this topic ? 4? A response would be welcome please . Thank you

---

That's not how they do it. However, this thread already has 60+ pages with OP having 275 upvotes. That should've garnered a response but hasn't yet :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

That's not how they do it. However, this thread already has 60+ pages with OP having 275 upvotes. That should've garnered a response but hasn't yet :(

---

So maybe we have to start a petition on change.org "please save 24 man need button"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kikix12

That analogy was not about greed only and the old system. That analogy was between old system and a system where need is accessible for a given item only until you get it for the first time. I'd appreciate it if you did read the actual beginning of a discussion instead of responding out of context.

And cars have tons of negatives. They are more convenient and faster. And that's about all. There are also drawbacks. They cost more to use, they are more dangerous when used improperly, they cause pollution, they are loud. they need a lot more space, they increase distances between point A to point B because they need sizeable enough roads to divide the locations etc. So no, the analogy is not a bad one. You just don't realize how many negatives cars have.

---

I am aware of the context. It still doesn't work because, as Tridus pointed out, you're essentially replacing the old system with a convoluted variation of the same thing except it necessitating more coding to flag whether the players has seen the item before.

Convenience is a broad term, which encompasses significantly increased space, multiple passenger transportation, security from harsher climates and etc. Sprouting off only negative aspects ignores the objective practicality. Regardless, for someone accusing me of not reading their post, perhaps you should re-read where I specifically mention biked shifted to a recreational utility not dropped out of existence. Either way, the analogy doesn't work.

The simple fix is to revert back to how things were or implement a token system.

Was there any reasonable context given why Greed only?
Like wow, as if we needed a feature that makes people, who actually dont need the gear (cuz higher IL already etc.) still snatch it from people who would truly need it (need is relative in itself, but you get the point)
Hopefully this gets fixed asap. Be it with token or anything that changes it in a good way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The simple fix is to revert back to how things were or implement a token system.

---

I rather see the systems co-exist much like they do in Extreme Trials. Your weapon dropped? Hurray! Need that sucker! It didn't? 10 runs and you still get it. It's hard enough to get the piece you want to even drop, and as we all know, even under the old system, non-tanks weren't guaranteed solo Need privileges. Healers had it worse by being guaranteed a rolling rival. The tokens would still make life easier for everyone.
The biggest coding challenge would be to make the purchase from the vendor count for the weekly lockout thing but that's adding logic that runs on-demand while the flag it changes already exists in the system. I'm not worried about getting around hiding the token in your chocobag or what not, they can just make those Key-items with expiration dates like Khloe's journal or wedding invitations.

how about to add a requirement to the greed button, like have the job for the gear at least only 5 level lower than the gear (have to be lv 65 to get lv 70 gear) or all you can do is pass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

how about to add a requirement to the greed button, like have the job for the gear at least only 5 level lower than the gear (have to be lv 65 to get lv 70 gear) or all you can do is pass.

---

We used to have a similar restriction! It was called 'the Need button', and if you leveled your job, you could run this content on it and actually get the item!
Furthermore, while this is the intended and main purpose, battle classes using this gear is not the only usage these pieces of gear have. Alliance raids are a very nice way to level up desynth if you have WVR, LTW or ARM and this restriction will hurt crafters who do not have certain battle classes badly. I can't even say it would be better to remove this restriction once the raid is not current-content, because then you're hurting people trying to gear up alts or even their mains after hiatus.

I ran it as my BRD to get some gear and saw the top drop. Rolled greed on it and got a 24. Others rolled on it, and i lost it to someone else. It was an upgrade for me. so, screw that This greed this is utter bull

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kikix12

Of course the feature will need to be programmed. Since everything is stored on server (inventory and class data), client will have a function that checks the flag for given character and a function for turning the flag on. That's very little resource. That's why flags are used everywhere possible. They are the least resource intensive means.

---

You say that, but SE gave us the glamour dresser instead of a glamour log, because sometimes they love the more complicated solution. But anyway...

Quote:

---

Um...Sure, you could make it like that. But why?! Instead of making it part of every item, just make it check the flag as part of the drop. Item drops, check the flag. Whatever item that is. Will also help people like me that don't remember whether we already have that minion or orchestrion roll.

---

It's not a property of the item at all. It's a property of the *character*. Each character has to know if they've already won need on each item. So the only way to do this in an expandable way (because they'll be adding more raids with more items it applies to) is that every character has a value with X number of bits, and each bit corresponds to one item.

When a given item drops, you check each character who could need it to see if they're allowed to. That has to happen on both server and client.

Quote:

---

And?! Eight bits is still just eight bits. And you know...again...it's all server-side (well...between the main server and the instance server). The only information between the server and the player is "You can/can't choose Need." and "I choose Need/Greed/Pass.".

---

It's not eight bits, unless there will only be eight items covered by this system. You do realize you need a flag for every item that it applies to, right?

Quote:

---

Not really. If a player won by "Need" just flip the flag. That's, again, very little information. Yes, it's additional information, but small one and done between servers.

---

Depending on what back end data storage they're using, they likely can't write a single bit in an update. It's not a huge update, but it's an update that has to go out to persistent storage. Those aren't free, and no highly scaleable software developer wants to add more of them than is absolutely needed.

Quote:

---

Again, that's just a 1 or 0. You can need or you can't need. The client does the rest.

---

With how SE currently handles communication in the game, it would send the entire collection over to the player and then need to keep it in sync. So it's more than that. It doesn't have to be, but that's true of a lot of things in this game right now.

Quote:

---

Like everything. And you can say only for yourself. You cannot say how few or many players would prefer the system as I suggested it. And compared to some of the other stuff that players ask for (like making gender-locked glamour unisex) a flag is a very basic function don't purely with a limited amount of text. The workload is nowhere near the same.

---

Making gear unisex has absolutely no server impact whatsoever. It's strictly client side. They're not comparable at all. You are aware of how often "server limitations" come up as a problem, yes? Because it doesn't sound like it.

Adding more server load with an overcomplicated solution to a problem that only exists because SE created it isn't helping anyone. This was just a bad change and reverting it is the far simpler answer.

Quote:

---

You also seem to be forgetting something very important in what you said. Checking whether you can Need an item based on class is actually...checking flags. Yeah. It needs to check whether you can need it as well. And it needs to do that for every class that can equip the item. Obviously, towards all players. And then, once players roll, it needs to deal with the Need/Greed priority. A necessity that does not exist if everyone rolls greed for whatever reason.

---

Checking if you can need something right now is based on your current job and the jobs that can use the item, which are already known values and are necessary to be in memory already. You're adding another one that isn't necessary and otherwise has no real use outside of this one roulette.

Quote:

---

Sure, there is no turning the flag on upon winning, since the flag is changed based on players changing of class (which cannot happen in instance). But that's just about the only real difference in how the two checks work.

---

No, one is a check of "does your current job intersect the job list", and the other is "does your character state show that you've already won this item before." They're not the same thing. They're both straightforward checks, but one is using data that is already loaded for other reasons, and one is a new thing created just for this.

Quote:

---

I won't respond to the rest of your post because it shows your conservative nature. You seem to assume that things cannot be made better and every change is for the worse, unless you asked for it, so there really is no point in discussing it, seeing as I believe in that everything can be made better.

---

I'm a professional software developer. We tend to like simple solutions over complicated ones, because needless complexity means more resources, more cost, and more things to break in the future. This problem has a very simple solution: the one that literally every other roulette in the game already uses successfully.

You sound like someone who has never had to implement something like this and then deal with the consequences five years later.

@Tridus complexity for no reason is what SE does best /s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

@Tridus complexity for no reason is what SE does best /s

---

Someone needs to install python on every one of their computers and then put in a windows task\cron job to run import this every 5 seconds

Hey SE if you're reading this please get RID of all greed. I shouldnt be losing pieces that drop for me to OTHER CLASSES that roll on the piece when they dont need it.

They should avoid triying to enforce something to fix community issues, especially is fixes makes life worse for everyone

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

They should avoid triying to enforce something to fix community issues, especially is fixes makes life worse for everyone

---

At this point I wouldn't really call it a fix...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I rather see the systems co-exist much like they do in Extreme Trials. Your weapon dropped? Hurray! Need that sucker! It didn't? 10 runs and you still get it. It's hard enough to get the piece you want to even drop, and as we all know, even under the old system, non-tanks weren't guaranteed solo Need privileges. Healers had it worse by being guaranteed a rolling rival. The tokens would still make life easier for everyone.
The biggest coding challenge would be to make the purchase from the vendor count for the weekly lockout thing but that's adding logic that runs on-demand while the flag it changes already exists in the system. I'm not worried about getting around hiding the token in your chocobag or what not, they can just make those Key-items with expiration dates like Khloe's journal or wedding invitations.

---

Meant to comment on this earlier, however my ideal scenario would be a system as followed"

- You accept a quest each week ala Crystal Tower/Proto-Ultima which necessitates 5/10 runs
- Upon completing the required amount, you are rewarded with a token which can be exchanged to a separate NPC for a piece of your choosing
- If, however, you obtained something during Ridorana, this NPC is flagged as "completed"

This eliminates weeks where you'll be unlucky enough to spam 24 mans and get nothing you want. Unfortunately, they want us to spam it like that despite it being precisely what kills people's enjoyment.

I finally ran the content yesterday evening. The greed-only system is, in fact, a piece of garbage. One of my friends was on BRD (mains BRD, wanted the chest piece when it dropped) exclaimed that he rolled a greed 1 on a piece of gear he could use on his main. Luckily for him, the party we were in was preformed so there were no problems with him getting the chest piece. As I said from the outset and as many people have said, this system is not a solution. It only causes more problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remus

At this point I wouldn't really call it a fix...

---

Well in their perspective it is, despite how wrong that notion is
So i'm just respecting that notion while criticizing it

Just checking in to say Please give Need back

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

- You accept a quest each week ala Crystal Tower/Proto-Ultima which necessitates 5/10 runs

---

My biggest gripe with a quest is that people are going to forget to pick it up, and then they'll complain about wasted runs. While this would be their fault for sure, we're trying to minimize people's discontent here. When you forgot the Dun Scaith quest, it wasn't THAT bad since you had to run it twice, and it was for an extra sure-get item, not one of the raid's drops. But for this, when you already need to run 5/10, that extra run could be lethal.
No other fail-safe mechanism that I know of in the game requires you picked up a quest, it's simply on as soon as you unlocked the content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

My biggest gripe with a quest is that people are going to forget to pick it up, and then they'll complain about wasted runs. While this would be their fault for sure, we're trying to minimize people's discontent here. When you forgot the Dun Scaith quest, it wasn't THAT bad since you had to run it twice, and it was for an extra sure-get item, not one of the raid's drops. But for this, when you already need to run 5/10, that extra run could be lethal.
No other fail-safe mechanism that I know of in the game requires you picked up a quest, it's simply on as soon as you unlocked the content.

---

As a solution to this there could be a window appearing every reset with priority quests showing like current "Recomendations" but once upon login after every reset. It could include Wondrous tails, , Raid quests for those tokens you're talking about. Also maybe savage weekly loot. Everything that is weekly.

So for Raid roulette and current 24-mans it would be a quest that you can accept from anywhere upon login, I mean, why not? It's once a week and you just click "No" every tuesday. It's not something annoying popping up every day like recommendations or player-guide (that you also can disable).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miscanth

As a solution to this there could be a window appearing every reset with priority quests showing like current "Recomendations" but once upon login after every reset. It could include Wondrous tails, , Raid quests for those tokens you're talking about. Also maybe savage weekly loot. Everything that is weekly.

---

People will insta-click it, or ASK to be able to do so, and then complain when they miss out on it.

Quote:

---

So for Raid roulette and current 24-mans it would be a quest that you can accept from anywhere upon login

---

Might as well just give us a "quest" then instead of this workaround. We have enough weekly Timers going off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

People will insta-click it, or ASK to be able to do so, and then complain when they miss out on it.



Might as well just give us a "quest" then instead of this workaround. We have enough weekly Timers going off.

---

Put it in the challenge log then. Complete "current 24 man raid" X times. 0/X. Link the quest completion flag to the gear flag in the actual raid. The NPC checks the challenge log entry to see if it is completed or not and it checks the raid gear flag.

If it's completed:

If you have gotten something already that week from the raid, the NPC gives you a cracked cluster and maybe some gil/tomes. If you haven't gotten something, you get a choice of boxes, one for each slot that when opened gives you the corresponding piece of gear for the job you opened it on.

TBH that seems a bit generous but that could be something they could do.

Just replace the gear with gear slot tokens in the loot chests. In other words, no "healer chest" dropping from the boss and it's now just a "chest token". Exchange to a chest piece of your choosing in the Reach. That way we have tons more freedom to pick which job we feel like playing without it affecting our loot chance and people can not complain about other players not deserving a piece because every piece of loot is for every job until you exchange it.

This is already in the game in the form of Antique dungeon gear tokens.

I use 24 mans to gear my healers. With this new system in place I decided I might as well run the Lighthouse on my bard instead (geared with capped tomes).
On my first run I won the healer headpiece. After the loot was awarded one of my party's healers said it was an upgrade for them and I felt like a jerk.

Please change it back SE. It feels awful losing something for your class to someone on a different job and awful taking something from someone on the right job (to me at least).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

Just replace the gear with gear slot tokens in the loot chests. In other words, no "healer chest" dropping from the boss and it's now just a "chest token". Exchange to a chest piece of your choosing in the Reach. That way we have tons more freedom to pick which job we feel like playing without it affecting our loot chance and people can not complain about other players not deserving a piece because every piece of loot is every job until you exchange it.

This is already in the game in the form of Antique dungeon gear tokens.

---

This is actually the best solution I've seen so far. Not only does it completely end this Need/Greed debacle, but it also dramatically cuts down on one of the biggest problems with 24-man raids; the obscenely bloated pool of RNG gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapphire_Dianta

This is actually the best solution I've seen so far. Not only does it completely end this Need/Greed debacle, but it also dramatically cuts down on one of the biggest problems with 24-man raids; the obscenely bloated pool of RNG gear.

---

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of token systems, but at this point it would be way less frustrating to lose out to "Chest Token", than to specifically have my class item drop when I'm the only one who should by rights be able to get it, and then getting outrolled by someone else.

Could be like set tokens from wow in the end

Better yet....how about...and roll with me on this one guys...How about SE just get rid of the whole one loot drop a week crap entirely so that way EVERYONE has a shot of getting loot and farming as much as they want? Sadly, this won't happen cause SE fears that by allowing players to grind faster for stuff they are afraid to lose sub money since some might unsub after getting what they want...despite the fact that Yoshi-Pee and company tells people it's ok not to play a lot and take a break. Yet, they are afraid to lose money for letting players grind faster for the things they want, the things they deserve because they pay their sub. I think there's All Greed on "both sides".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Usho

Better yet....how about...and roll with me on this one guys...How about SE just get rid of the whole one loot drop a week crap entirely so that way EVERYONE has a shot of getting loot and farming as much as they want? Sadly, this won't happen cause SE fears that by allowing players to grind faster for stuff they are afraid to lose sub money since some might unsub after getting what they want...despite the fact that Yoshi-Pee and company tells people it's ok not to play a lot and take a break. Yet, they are afraid to lose money for letting players grind faster for the things they want, the things they deserve because they pay their sub. I think there's All Greed on "both sides".

---

or how about they just leave because thats whats going to happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Usho

Better yet....how about...and roll with me on this one guys...How about SE just get rid of the whole one loot drop a week crap entirely so that way EVERYONE has a shot of getting loot and farming as much as they want? Sadly, this won't happen cause SE fears that by allowing players to grind faster for stuff they are afraid to lose sub money since some might unsub after getting what they want...despite the fact that Yoshi-Pee and company tells people it's ok not to play a lot and take a break. Yet, they are afraid to lose money for letting players grind faster for the things they want, the things they deserve because they pay their sub. I think there's All Greed on "both sides".

---

The Problem with that would not be that people would take a break when they are done, the problem is that they would complain again because they have nothing to do anymore. That would put more pressure on SE to come up with new content in shorter intervals what they are probably not able to do, not to mention that the quality of the game would suffer from that even more then right now.

I feel that this change was completely unnecessary. As far as I know, I don't think I've seen anyone ask for this sort of change that wasn't trolling.

I also strongly disagree with their reasoning behind it. Because I have used gear from the Alliance raids to catch up to current content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilan

The Problem with that would not be that people would take a break when they are done, the problem is that they would complain again because they have nothing to do anymore. That would put more pressure on SE to come up with new content in shorter intervals what they are probably not able to do, not to mention that the quality of the game would suffer from that even more then right now.

---

That's a dumb excuse. FFXI allowed you to farm for gear and whatever else content related and they never had to worry about peeps unsubbing in mass complaining about not getting any new content (or those that did complain were the minority who only do 2 things and then say "I have nothing else to do!"). Yoshi's team is just that lazy, that they can't beat a game over a decade old as far as making grinds easier. People will complain regardless in this era about not having anything to do, when there is a multitude of things for them to do in game but just are too lazy to do them.


I mean come on dude...if they have the resources to put in pointless filler sidequests (the wine quest from the ridorana quests and the also pointless saltery sidequest which has no real bearing at all) then they can obviously afford to add new content and or remove the stupid weekly (force you to stay subbed) lockouts on loot. Those minor sidequests shows nothing but laziness and a waste of players sub money for subpar irrelevant content and makes a already slow grind even slower.



They shouldn't have to worry about a minority who only sub for a few things each patch and then leave complaining they have nothing else to do. For a game that claims to have over "10 million active subscribers" they should have all the money they need to benefit the game, especially since Yoshi says it's fine for people to take a break from the game, then this excuse of "But they will complain about having nothing to do and leave" would be moot. Is he scared that everyone will unsub in droves? That's realistically unlikely and I think it's just an excuse to keep getting more sub money from us, even when the game is not able to unlock it's full potential because it is being held back by it's director who won't allow it's potential to grow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Usho

That's a dumb excuse. FFXI allowed you to farm for gear and whatever else content related and they never had to worry about peeps unsubbing in mass complaining about not getting any new content (or those that did complain were the minority who only do 2 things and then say "I have nothing else to do!"). Yoshi's team is just that lazy, that they can't beat a game over a decade old as far as making grinds easier. People will complain regardless in this era about not having anything to do, when there is a multitude of things for them to do in game but just are too lazy to do them.

---

XI had lockouts between grinds back in the day (Did you ever play then?), the difference is XI had more content for you to cycle through, whilst waiting for the lockout. XI's gear also stayed relevant for way longer, making the grind worth it.

Nearly 290 likes, 64 pages and mostly negative feedback even after the patch, yet not even one single comment from the mods. :/

I was hoping the maintenance would've reversed this decision, but nope. Lets see how long it takes for them to listen to us.

I don't like the new greed system. Why can't people just play the class they need gear for?
I don't want to fight with all the people in the raid group for one piece of gear that only I can use just so that they can have it for their alt job that they are never going to play anyway. Please do not do this. I like the old system of Need and Greed. It is a good system. If you want to replace the old system of need and greed then do it with tokens that you can turn in for gear instead of making it all greed.


I also want to point out that I only made an acount on this forum just to complain on this specifc topic, this is how much I dislike this new system. Much love to the game otherwise.