DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Why do you think I added "they would need to buff PLD and WAR stuff to make sure that doesn't get all of the attention" after telling you which page to go to?

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Why not just buff DRK enough to be in line with the other two tanks instead of overbuffing to the point the other two tanks also need an additional buff? Less work on SE's part, meaning it would actually get done.

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Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

Why not just buff DRK enough to be in line with the other two tanks instead of overbuffing to the point the other two tanks also need an additional buff? Less work on SE's part, meaning it would actually get done.

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What ever happened to getting rid of PS3 Limitations? Because it feels like it's those limitations are still there.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

What ever happened to getting rid of PS3 Limitations? Because it feels like it's those limitations are still there.

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To be fair, PS3 support was just dropped and its been around since 2.0. SO it will probably take time to remove said limitations. Although i'm not sure what you're specifically referring too.

Change TBN to be a party aoe shield when used not on yourself, that'll be fun to watch.

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Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

To be fair, PS3 support was just dropped and its been around since 2.0. SO it will probably take time to remove said limitations. Although i'm not sure what you're specifically referring too.

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If they are capable of fixing things quicker compared to when Heavensward which still had PS3 limitations, then should be able to fix DRK in as soon as the next major patch was out, not wait until gods know how many expansions later to actually fix the current tank balance.

What would be nice is another ability that consumes blood, but not 50 blood, something like 20 or 30 blood. Best candidates for that are SS and DP. SS would be giving an x amount of hp to a target be it self or a party member, instant like equilibrium, resource consuming like clemency. DP would just deal an x amount of damage, which you can increase by adding DA to it.
In the case of SS we'd get a nice defensive CD with a possible loss of DPS because you're using blood defensively. And with DP we'll get a nice oGCD damage move.

Ok now I don't see CS being used without DA. Just make CS a DPS move that you keep on CD. I know this does remove the little planning you need to use DACS during trick window. But this does open up the double weaving with CS in between.

Oh and SW CD lowered.

All those changes together would make DRK overpowered but just a couple of them would be nice and wouldn't necessarily make the class harder which they seem to be aiming for with the SB changes.

Actually, I like that idea. Have Dark Passenger use blood instead of MP, would give us more usage for black blood and make DP less of a waste of space.

Dark Passenger would be less polarizing if it was rated at 140 potency without Dark Arts, while staying at 240 with Dark Arts.

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Originally Posted by Keldion

Dark Passenger would be less polarizing if it was rated at 140 potency without Dark Arts, while staying at 240 with Dark Arts.

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Making DP worth the amount of what a DA gives is an idea that would actually make sense. Maybe they shouldn't have changed the HW's 150 potency DP since that was actually a dps gain to use, makes me wonder if anyone at SE has actually played a lv 70 DRK for more than 10 minutes in any raid context.

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Originally Posted by akisya

Making DP worth the amount of what a DA gives is an idea that would actually make sense. Maybe they shouldn't have changed the HW's 150 potency DP since that was actually a dps gain to use, makes me wonder if anyone at SE has actually played a lv 70 DRK for more than 10 minutes in any raid context.

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Then it would just be a DA, I don't really see the point in that. Yeah would be nice for 2 and more targets but I don't see why they'd do that. The 150 pot was a gain even on single target, which is nice but I also understand why they changed it, the ability is obviously meant for AoE.

I am not sure if it has been suggested, but how about Dark Passenger also restoring time on Blood Weapon + Blood Price? (4 / 6 Seconds)

Trait that reduces Dark Passenger cooldown every time Dark Arts is used by 1 second.

Using Dark Arts ensures a critical strike. Keep the mana cost the same.

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Originally Posted by hoax

Then it would just be a DA, I don't really see the point in that. Yeah would be nice for 2 and more targets but I don't see why they'd do that. The 150 pot was a gain even on single target, which is nice but I also understand why they changed it, the ability is obviously meant for AoE.

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A 140 potency DP is a gain under most party buffs (on top of darkside) over a 140 potency increase with DA on BS/SE/SS, since party buffs don't affect DA.

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Originally Posted by akisya

A 140 potency DP is a gain under most party buffs (on top of darkside) over a 140 potency increase with DA on BS/SE/SS, since party buffs don't affect DA.

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Yes but the reason they nerfed it in the first place is because the dps gain is only supposed to be seen with 2 or more targets, why'd they make an AoE a dps gain on 1 target?

This whole codswallop of DP being "clearly intended for AoE only" needs to go the way of the dinosaur. Circle of Scorn, Dragonfire Dive, Death Flare, Elixir Field... there is more precedent for off-GCD AoE abilities (i.e. not weaponskills/spells, GCDs) being useful in single target rotations (as well as not costing an arm and a leg) than there is for the reverse, so I submit that this whole idea of SE wanting AoE abilities to stay useless outside of AoE is faulty and we can move on now.

Just to get this thread back on track, a 10 potency buff to DP and its reintegration into our ST rotation will not fix DRK without similar changes to its mitigation and utility. This is if SE follows their current trend of just giving everybody everything that everybody has. If they'd like to deviate from that we'd need a significant buff in one particular department to push us well ahead in that one area and give us a niche.

They nerfed a collection of AOE across multiple jobs in 4.0, though some got buffed oddly..

I believe it has to do with lower lvl dungeons getting their difficulty eased each expansion, and so lots of low level 'bonus' AOEs were reigned in to prevent them from being too cheese. In DRKs case, Unleashed and DP.

But then they discovered that removing Darkside's MP drain destroyed all presence of DRK identity until lvl45, so they raised Dark Passenger's MP cost to make create some faux sense of MP management at lower lvls.

Just what I speculate on how it went down.

Honestly, I feel DP's biggest issue with balancing is that it has a resource cost and is on a recast timer.
They just need to get rid of the resource cost and then rebalance the numbers from there.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

This whole codswallop of DP being "clearly intended for AoE only" needs to go the way of the dinosaur. Circle of Scorn, Dragonfire Dive, Death Flare, Elixir Field... there is more precedent for off-GCD AoE abilities (i.e. not weaponskills/spells, GCDs) being useful in single target rotations (as well as not costing an arm and a leg) than there is for the reverse, so I submit that this whole idea of SE wanting AoE abilities to stay useless outside of AoE is faulty and we can move on now.

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Do you have a better reason why they nerfed it then? And the ones you named don't have the MP cost of 2400.

Putting the thread back on track: DRK plays fine as it is currently, the problem is the amount of damage it spits out for the amount of effort you put into it. Attempting to prep enough mana and gauge for 1-2 bloodspiller(s) and 1 C&S every minute for a NIN's trick attack window is a lot more challenging than your PLD's FoF GB-RA-RA Req-HS spam rotation that ignores party buff windows, imo.

Even if you do execute DRK's rotation perfectly in a speedrun, PLDs will still out damage you if they do their set rotation perfectly as well. On top of that, PLDs defensive rotation is the easiest to manage out of all the tanks. With PLDs not needing to keep track of their gauge, their sheltron (-26%, 10 whopping seconds duration) will always be up for every tankbuster. I'm okay with PLDs having easy defensive management, but not okay with them having such a easy time doing damage too. Might as well take 2 PLDs for ultimate prog, they are already close enough to WAR damage.

PLDs also have the RNG from blocking on their end. Meaning even if they don't do anything, there's a chance they'll live through if the healers can react to it.

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Originally Posted by Mekhana

PLDs also have the RNG from blocking on their end. Meaning even if they don't do anything, there's a chance they'll live through if the healers can react to it.

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Yes, PLDs in O1-3S can passively block very hard hitting auto-attacks without Bulwark. And yes, they can pop absolutely nothing and still block a tankbuster, but most PLDs wouldn't do that anyways (atleast i would hope so). They will also spam Sheltron for Shield Swipe if there's no tankbusters coming soon.

Overall, PLDs take a lot less damage than WAR and DRK, especially with Hallowed Ground. SE should probably either nerf PLD damage or increase DRK a lot and WAR a little.

HEY SQUARE ENIX IM GONNA USE CAPS FOR THIS POST IN THE HOPES YOU HEAR THIS YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHHHH

anyways, so I was trying to get through the new 24-man today, and I put Sole Survivor on an ad. Unfortunately I got killed before the monster died and watched sadly as the Another Victim timer expired- which gave me an idea for the skill.

Sole Survivor
Marks target with the status Another Victim.
Converts portion of damage dealt to that target into HP and MP to party members and self.
Additional Effect: If that target should be KO'd in battle, 20% of your maximum HP and MP will be restored.
Additional Effect: If KO'd in battle before the Another Victim timer runs out, and target is killed, you will be resurrected.
Duration: 20s

Recast: 90s

Including previous suggestions made for this skill
What do you guys think? You probably wouldn't actually get to use (the rez) that much, but as a very situational bonus I think it could be very fun to use. Also adds a whole other level to the name "Sole Survivor"

Dark Knight gameplay
This post is not about the actual balance of numbers (potencies, durations, cool downs) and how the numbers compare to the other tanks but about dark knight game play. Here are my ideas to add to the mix of the DRK left in the dark this patch threads.

Listed are some changes(or fix) that i feel would make dark knight more enjoyable to play.
Add your thoughts about gameplay not about the balance of numbers.

(adjust the numbers for balance as needed)
Unmend: additonal effect changed from 30% for a free unleash to a free Abyssal Drain

Dark Mind: Can only be executed when succumbing to the Darkside. Reduce magic vulnerability by 0%. Every time a Dark Arts is consumed add 5% to reduce magic vulnerability to a max of 35%. When skill is activated percent goes back to 0%.

Souleater: add partial hp drain out of grit (less then when in grit)

Dark Passenger: lower mp cost. should blind be a part of it or changed to something else? it clashes with synergy of other drk skills

Shadow Wall: Changed to 30 second duration. 1st 10 seconds 30% dmg reduction, 2nd 10 seconds 10% dmg reduction, last 10 seconds 5% dmg reduction

Delirium: oGCD attack with original animation. costs 10 blood, 5 second recast, 80 potency, grants a small amount mp, adds 3 seconds to blood weapon and 6 seconds to blood price.

Blackest Night: its seems many think a 6 second duration will help this skill

Sole Survivor: add gives blood if target did not die during duration.

Power Slash: add dark arts effect also guarantees a critical hit.

new trait at lvl 56. the level abyssal drain is earned.
Fully Unleashed: Turns Unleash into a oGCD with 50 sec cool down. When used, Unleash morphs into Scourge for 10 seconds and can be used once during that time. Scourge(old animation) is an oGCD attack that adds a DOT to target that lasts for 40 seconds. Hp is gained for dot damage dealt.

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Originally Posted by Souleater13

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Would make DRK way more unplayable with some of those suggested changes which actually sound like nerfs when DRK doesn't need any more nerfs... also this regarding balancing DRK for those who are midcore and hardcore those suggestions are really bad for DRK since they wanted DRK to be tank role...

I've suggested before to change Sole Survivor into an instant heal that consumes blood, but what if thats based on blood itself, so 50 heals a part but 100 blood heals you for your max HP. With this change you can get yourself out of walking dead.
This way we're not healer dependant for our invul ability, like war and pld..

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Originally Posted by hoax

I've suggested before to change Sole Survivor into an instant heal that consumes blood, but what if thats based on blood itself, so 50 heals a part but 100 blood heals you for your max HP. With this change you can get yourself out of walking dead.
This way we're not healer dependant for our invul ability, like war and pld..

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If this happened i'd end up never using the heal at the risk of not having it for living dead. Honestly livind dead just needs a rework. There's no reason for it to function the way it does when the other 2 are alot less detrimental. If anything they just need to change the adverse affect from being killed to ending up with weakness status affect.

I would like to see living dead become damage absorbing and restore hp. Some sort of middle ground between hallowed and HG. Basically you can pop it and go down to 1 then all damage taken becomes hp restored. When it wears off you just stay at whatever hp you were. Instead of living dead it could be call something like dark pact.

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Originally Posted by hoax

I've suggested before to change Sole Survivor into an instant heal that consumes blood, but what if thats based on blood itself, so 50 heals a part but 100 blood heals you for your max HP. With this change you can get yourself out of walking dead.
This way we're not healer dependant for our invul ability, like war and pld..

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Already suggested something similar for the Stormblood Delirium but much more balanced.

Welp, I did get the chance to play Warrior after the changes.

It hurt even more.

I can't even. Haha.

add this: blood price is complety useless on shinryu, all is magic there making tank in grit being so damm painfull, they need to make MP retunrs in both type of damage.

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Originally Posted by shao32

add this: blood price is complety useless on shinryu, all is magic there making tank in grit being so damm painfull, they need to make MP retunrs in both type of damage.

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BP works on magic... it's just, magic hits usually come at a slower rate.

then is a bug bcs using blood price on shinryu extreme give 0 pm

I have a microscopic glimmer of hope that the bug fix is perhaps a precursor to some interesting and powerful overhaul to Blood Price in 4.15. Doubt it though.

If nothing else post all over the internet and maybe use the support desk thing in-game to leave a suggestion about how to make DRK balanced better...

just how reliable is FFLogs in seeing how many people are still taking DRK into content?

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

just how reliable is FFLogs in seeing how many people are still taking DRK into content?

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Not at all, as FFlogs is dominated by speed-run meta, which DRK is currently not a part of. DRK is still very much used by many people, but turning to FFlogs to see if people are running it isn't really the best course of actions.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

just how reliable is FFLogs in seeing how many people are still taking DRK into content?

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Hard for me to say specifically. But just from a cursory look across the last day, last week, last 2 weeks, across the percentiles and including patch 4.1, it looks like the ratio of DRK:WAR:PLD in terms of the number of logs is pretty telling. The following is for Omega Savage, all bosses.

1 day
WAR 2034
PLD 2479
DRK 1192

1 week
WAR 11181
PLD 14110
DRK 7609

2 weeks
WAR 25882
PLD 34297
DRK 19934

Average all those together and you get
WAR: 13032
PLD: 16962
DRK: 9578

That is about a 3:4:5 ratio between DRK:WAR:PLD, meaning WAR is about 25% more common than DRK, and PLD about 20% more common than WAR. And 4.1 is still very young, Ultimate isn't even out yet... barring 4.15 buffs to DRK I think if I crunch these same numbers in oh... say, a month, we'll see a ratio probably more like 2:5:6/DRK:WAR:PLD.

The numbers for Shinryu are probably most telling; DRK has an 'advantage' in clear statistics for Omega since people used it for prog and many groups just stick with their prog strategy/compositions.

Right now PLD and WAR are the #1 and #2 most popular classes for Shinryu clears, with DRK sitting at about half the clears of either, which is a pretty piss-poor showing considering that Shinryu is actually a really "good" DRK fight with plenty of opportunity to use Dark Mind.

I agree, the Shinryu clear statistics match well with the 1 day clear history for Dark Knight after patch 4.1. It’s pretty clear that about half of the dark knights left or switched to war.

And why wouldn’t they switch? Free party shields on both warrior and paladin, paladin at max gear blocks for 26% of damage (this is nearly a shadow wall for 1 attack every 22 seconds with a chance to just passively block every attack), and both bring higher overall dps. Dark Knight just doesn’t make sense as part of a raid right now, I’m surprised more people haven't switched.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/17...=2&class=Tanks
Deltascape clears after 4.1
WAR:4,247
PLD:5,240
DRK:2,753

i love when my prediction come true. Tho this time i wish they didnt.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Dark Knight just doesn’t make sense as part of a raid right now, I’m surprised more people haven't switched.

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Hi Hi o/
I'm one of those people who haven't switched yet, and I think some of that can be put down to the fact that obviously, there are still some groups out there that don't follow the speed run meta religiously.
A lot of minorities are the ones who say "Play what you enjoy." or there some out there that don't want SE to think DRK has been completely snuffed out and everyone else is in favor of the other two.