Shots Fired: A Machinist Guide

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

FULL TIME GB AT1 by @VergilX on Reddit

http://i.imgur.com/Ic865KG.png

---

Awesome!! The next question is, what do other dps classes do for dps? If we keep leading the pack in dungeons, we are sure to get a nerf. I am assuming that a good ninja/dragoon could get 1100-1200?

That sexy numbers... How about mixing GB on when bursts and off when cooldowns?

That combined with your rook damage? It always parses mine separately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by airshowboat

Awesome!! The next question is, what do other dps classes do for dps? If we keep leading the pack in dungeons, we are sure to get a nerf. I am assuming that a good ninja/dragoon could get 1100-1200?

---

Good, that's the word :P but i agree, a good melee can do 1100+ for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ephier

3% party stat buff no joke with high stats. '-'

---

The 6.8k ones are hilarious on Alex F4. Phase 1 only has ~380k HP so 6.8k wildfires tick for like 2% of its health. The whole raid just goes "what the fuck is that?" as I laugh histerically to a 2% hp tick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

FULL TIME GB AT1

---

Kudos to him but 1k has been broken in a 4-5+ min runs


944 A3

http://i.imgur.com/MmC98sK.png

Are this DPS values counting Wildfire?
From what I read/heard it isn't counted so those values could be even higher.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EvilYang

Are this DPS values counting Wildfire?
From what I read/heard it isn't counted so those values could be even higher.

---

From what I can tell doing my own tests.. Yes it is counted. Although I have had the occasional wildfire not picked up during my opener. I would say 90% of the time there is no issue with it picking up wildfire

Then I guess I'm just unlucky because mine always show as no dmg even though I see the numbers pop on the target and on the battle log :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EvilYang

Then I guess I'm just unlucky because mine always show as no dmg even though I see the numbers pop on the target and on the battle log :P

---

It should show under simulated DoTs in your breakdown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Massterchef

It should show under simulated DoTs in your breakdown.

---

Ah nice thx.
I'll check it later when I get home then :D

everyones so lucky they have dragoons in their group :(. My group has monk/nin -cries in a corner-.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sevyn

everyones so lucky they have dragoons in their group :(. My group has monk/nin -cries in a corner-.

---

I had a DRG earlier putting out less than 600 dps on A3. On the first phase. I'd rather take a monk or ninja who's doing 800-900 anyday.

Skill speed will be harder to test on turret than I thought. Apparently, spell speed no longer increases the speed of SMN pets attacks-- it just makes them stronger physically. I could picture our turrets getting the same treatment with skill speed. They keep the 3 second time between attacks, but do more damage with each hit as you get more skill speed. Crit/det will still be our big stats, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryaz

I had a DRG earlier putting out less than 600 dps on A3. On the first phase. I'd rather take a monk or ninja who's doing 800-900 anyday.

---

I think he means for the piercing debuff the DRG applies, so he can do DPS at his full potential as MCH.

I have a 60 MCH, but I have some questions for the seasoned MCH out there:

1. Should I use Wildfire on trash in dungeons or just bosses?
2. Should I be reserving the Reload and Ricochet abilities and my buffs just for Wildfire?

Also, I would like to add thak you to the OP for all of the great info posted at the beginning ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jk315904

I have a 60 MCH, but I have some questions for the seasoned MCH out there:

1. Should I use Wildfire on trash in dungeons or just bosses?
2. Should I be reserving the Reload and Ricochet abilities and my buffs just for Wildfire?

Also, I would like to add thak you to the OP for all of the great info posted at the beginning ^^

---

1. Use Wildfire on mobs that will live longer than 15s if it'll be off cooldown by the time you get to the boss.
2. Reload isn't worth saving because it has 2/3rd of the cooldown of Wildfire, you'll have Quick reload and proc regardless, even if you somehow get 0/7 procs and no QR you're only missing out on like 25% of 200 potency (+modifiers). Ricochet is a little more complicated, it's dependant on when the boss/target is going to die. After the first Wildfire, if the boss dies in <120 seconds, save it for Wildfire. If it lives for 120-150 seconds, use on cooldown. And so on. If in doubt just use it on cooldown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hutan

I think he means for the piercing debuff the DRG applies, so he can do DPS at his full potential as MCH.

---

Oh, I know why he likes DRG. But the DRG needs to actually pull their weight as well or that 10% extra piercing damage will mean nothing to the overall raid.

Messed up at the end with a late Ricochet that could have helped my 3rd WF as well as still getting used to "Stance Dancing" but here's what I was able to do with the buff to MCH https://youtu.be/FXYX0Z3SbGY

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haxetc

Messed up at the end with a late Ricochet that could have helped my 3rd WF as well as still getting used to "Stance Dancing" but here's what I was able to do with the buff to MCH https://youtu.be/FXYX0Z3SbGY

---

Do you feel you could go higher? RNG was somewhat kind but that was pretty much compensated by applying lead shot w/o gauss, cancelling a cast & wasting 1 ammo on clean shot late in the attempt.


Though I still think parses should run until TP is dry... not after a convenient wildfire tick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haxetc

Messed up at the end with a late Ricochet that could have helped my 3rd WF as well as still getting used to "Stance Dancing" but here's what I was able to do with the buff to MCH https://youtu.be/FXYX0Z3SbGY

---

Curious to what the same rotation would be without stance dancing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Humorless

Do you feel you could go higher? RNG was somewhat kind but that was pretty much compensated by applying lead shot w/o gauss, cancelling a cast & wasting 1 ammo on clean shot late in the attempt.


Though I still think parses should run until TP is dry... not after a convenient wildfire tick.

---

I mean
https://i.gyazo.com/40d6267571310305...a011cdc55f.png non stance-dance until i ran dry. not really a difference lmao. qqmoarkthx

Anyone know what a good average dps for Bismarck Ex is? Was trying to do it today with a group of full 180s and we couldn't clear the snakes in phase 2. The monk and I were around 700-750, while our two other dps hit around 550. I literally did everything I could to increase dps, but we drop one snake and there'd be another one with about 5% health left that would disappear in about 5 seconds of the last debuff switch. We were averaging about 650 dps... It's just discouraging to fail as I haven't cleared Bis Ex yet and can't seem to get everyone to pull their weight. It was even more discouraging when several times I was spamming split shot 4-5 times with no procs.

Stance dance - 1078 DPS

http://i.imgur.com/PlSFwz3.png

Breakdown
http://i.imgur.com/39HOskL.png

Outgoing Damage
http://i.imgur.com/2ZK4pS4.png

AAs do about 13 DPS

Full GB - 1073 DPS

http://i.imgur.com/eFIdROS.png

Breakdown
http://i.imgur.com/NRJvemr.png

Skill Breakdown
http://i.imgur.com/XgJPHz3.png

Taking the DoT RNG out of the equation since they varied by 10 DPS. Full GB does about 22 more skill/ability DPS compared to the 13 AA DPS from stance dance with similar % crit. But the amount of extra DPS gained will be up to RNG wheres AA DPS is more consistent. Either way you're looking at negligible differences.

Can you post a skill breakdown of the first part? I don't usually say shit about procs but holy shit on that second parse lol

Actually, can you post the outgoing damage tab for both? Tells a lot more imo. Good parses tho!

I had to import from history so the #'s will be a few digits off but here's the outgoing damage for the first one. I'll import/post the second one soon as log files are available.

Stance Dance
http://i.imgur.com/xmgOOSP.png


edit: Imported

Fulltime GB
http://i.imgur.com/2ZK4pS4.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Massterchef

...

---

This is what helps with analyzing, espesically when comparing playstyle differences. Thanks for this.

In the end though, I still feel stance dancing can get very impractical if the fight does not line up for the 15 second lock. Were you using ricochet and gauss round off cooldown during fulltime, or did you try to line it for every second wildfire?

Hello. I have been playing MCH since the pre-release access. I like the class so much that I decided to make it my main. However I have run into a problem that has come up quite frequently. I am consistently getting ridiculed for playing the class let alone making it my main class. At first I did not let it bother me, as Summoners had the same issue when the game first came out. Now every time I am in a duty, regardless of the actual persons fault, the blame is getting brought down to the MCH class which has left me getting either booted or people abandoning the duty. I have heard things across all spectrums of excuses about the class and the thing that is brought up the most is why bring a MCH when you can bring in a Summoner who has more utility and does more damage. MCH is a waste of a dps slot.

Is there something I can say to make other groups feel justified in taking me along over other classes? Do you guys have some advice to give me?

Due to space I forgot to mention that I started to think that maybe it was just me. That I wasn't playing the class right, or getting down the rotations to make it effective. I was told by someone who ran with me for a bit that it wasn't my fault, that the class was designed to..."play like balls." This eventually came to a head when my FC was asking people who were level 60 if they wanted to do BisEX/Alexander. Considering those were the reason why I was rushing to get my ilvl up, I said I did. The person organizing the event seem disappointing and said. "I really thought you were going to be going in as a BLM" I never once stated that was the case, I did say I wanted to main my MCH many times during the course of the expansion thus far, and never even thought of focusing on BLM yet. It made me feel pretty bad, but more importantly I do not want to be bullied out of playing a class I really love.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

This is what helps with analyzing, espesically when comparing playstyle differences. Thanks for this.

In the end though, I still feel stance dancing can get very impractical if the fight does not line up for the 15 second lock. Were you using ricochet and gauss round off cooldown during fulltime, or did you try to line it for every second wildfire?

---

Stance dancing can be detrimental in other ways as well, as I found out. It's just one more thing to keep track of on top of mechanics, buffs, procs, etc. I was actually so focused on it today, I missed one of the reflect changes on Bismarck and killed myself. For what amounts to a negligible difference, I don't really think it's worth the headache.

Leeora: I did Alex the first day it came out with one of my FC members who's a tank. He was iffy on MCH as well. By the end of the day he wanted to play one as he saw me topping the Aggro and dps charts all day, and was glad that MCH wasn't the horror story he had heard about. He was even surprised when I pulled Aggro off him once because he thought a MCH would be the last class to be able to do it. There's a stigma right now due to all the talk, but trust me, enjoy your MCH and learn a little about it. When you do, you'll show your FC members just how good it is. And if they really try to bully you into switching classes, I'd say it's not an FC worth being part of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryaz

Stance dancing can be detrimental in other ways as well, as I found out. It's just one more thing to keep track of on top of mechanics, buffs, procs, etc. I was actually so focused on it today, I missed one of the reflect changes on Bismarck and killed myself. For what amounts to a negligible difference, I don't really think it's worth the headache.

---

Tunnel visioning can be a problem for any circumstance though, not just stance dancing. I was stancing before 3.01 because the burst from it is no joke. If you could find a time where you werent attacking the boss and had 3 seconds to attach the barrel, you could do so, use both guass and ricochet, then turn it off. It was a dps gain over full time GB (which was barely doing more than non-GB). Stance dancing isn't as effective now because ricochet's potency went from a whooping 480 to 390 (which technically would be made up by the 30% gain across everything else, but that's not the case if you're toggling GB off anyway). Right now it's just not leading to a consistent damage gain, and you're really just busting your stones for no good reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

In the end though, I still feel stance dancing can get very impractical if the fight does not line up for the 15 second lock. Were you using ricochet and gauss round off cooldown during fulltime, or did you try to line it for every second wildfire?

---

I typically use GR/Ricochet off CD. Ricochet should line up with the 3rd wildfire but there may be times when you have to delay GR a few seconds to line up with wildfire.

The 15 second lock only happens if you toggle GB on. So realistically if you were to only toggle it on for Gauss round/Richochet/Leadhot then off afterward; there should be ample time between the lockout and the next time you need to reapply them.

Also the outgoing damage from the 2nd run is updated on the original post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Massterchef

I typically use GR/Ricochet off CD. Ricochet should line up with the 3rd wildfire but there may be times when you have to delay GR a few seconds to line up with wildfire.

The 15 second lock only happens if you toggle GB on. So realistically if you were to only toggle it on for Gauss round/Richochet/Leadhot then off afterward; there should be ample time between the lockout and the next time you need to reapply them.

Also the outgoing damage from the 2nd run is updated on the original post.

---

Well you are toggling it on when you're stance dancing though is what I'm getting at. Some fights won't align properly for you to swap into GB for the burst and you'd end up with a period of time where you cant stand still, or holding off your burst until you can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leeora

Hello. I have been playing MCH since the pre-release access. I like the class so much that I decided to make it my main. However I have run into a problem that has come up quite frequently. I am consistently getting ridiculed for playing the class let alone making it my main class. At first I did not let it bother me, as Summoners had the same issue when the game first came out. Now every time I am in a duty, regardless of the actual persons fault, the blame is getting brought down to the MCH class which has left me getting either booted or people abandoning the duty. I have heard things across all spectrums of excuses about the class and the thing that is brought up the most is why bring a MCH when you can bring in a Summoner who has more utility and does more damage. MCH is a waste of a dps slot.

---

I've not once had complaints on my MCH nor seen others complain @ 60 content. You must be doing something weird or you're on a shitty server.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cascadi

2 – Gauss Barrel, Ammo, and Turrets

The Machinist has 3 major concepts that it utilizes: the Gauss Barrel, usage of Ammunition, and the supportive toggled abilities of the autoturrets.

Like the Bard’s Wanderer’s Minuet, Machinists get access to Gauss Barrel, an ability that puts a cast time on weaponskills and stops all auto-attacks. However, unlike the Bard, once a proc is triggered for Split Shot or Slug Shot, the following Slug or Clean Shot has no cast time. Some skills are also only usable while the Gauss Barrel is equipped, however, Gauss Barrel is pretty much useless outside of AoE pulls.

---

I appreciate all the hard work and effort put into this guide. That said, I think since the patch changed so much, some of the suggested information might need to be revisited.

** Also a lot of people seem to be repeating the same questions about how to handle their rotation when dealing with trash mobs?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Humorless

I've not once had complaints on my MCH nor seen others complain @ 60 content. You must be doing something weird or you're on a shitty server.

---

That's what I was concerned about because when I do duty's they are cross server. I have used rotations and the advice from this forum specifically and it doesn't seem like its me, but I can never be to sure.

Also I watched the youtube video that was posted a few days ago thinking that was the most smooth I have seen a MCH work. I asked the person through youtube what rotations and what not they were doing to pull that off, but got no response. After more of the stuff I described earlier being encountered I decided to post on here so maybe I could get a better understanding/justification of things with the class.

Just want to add that playing mch is not about rotation. There is no rotation to this class since we rely on procs. It is a priority based system. To maximise ur dps, u have to learn how to line up cooldown n react to procs according to fight mechanic. Learn which skill has higher priority over what available to you at that time. That being said i believe this guide is still missing DPS/action (cast) for each skill.

In my opinion, to help current mch community to change the old perception that mch is useless we probably need something else in the guide. Firstly, like i mentioned before we need to determine DPS/action (cast) for each skill to give more clarity to our priority system and secondly we need boss guides/tips on how to play our class properly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iolanthe;3131628

My Lead Shot Dot seems to be around 75 dps less than these top parses, and I'm having trouble understanding why exactly. Massterchef there is hitting around 213 DPS with Dots, where as in I'm sitting around 140 which is a huge difference. Am I supposed to be saving buffs and using an ammunition charge whenever I refresh Lead Shot to get the most out of it?

Any feedback is more than welcome, because I'm seeing people post these spectacular parses and I'm having difficult understanding how they are able to do it so regularly.

[url

http://i.imgur.com/iZACixH.png[/url]
http://i.imgur.com/WP1GBjP.png
http://i.imgur.com/hKYA2QK.png

---

What gear are you using? Hive weapon? The really high parses are from characters almost geared out to the max. The 190 weapon really adds dps too. Other than that, make sure you have GB on every time you apply leadshot. I parse at 900ish at 173. No hive weapon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iolanthe

My Lead Shot Dot seems to be around 75 dps less than these top parses, and I'm having trouble understanding why exactly. Massterchef there is hitting around 213 DPS with Dots, where as in I'm sitting around 140 which is a huge difference. Am I supposed to be saving buffs and using an ammunition charge whenever I refresh Lead Shot to get the most out of it?

---

Wildfire is detected as DoT damage. He has a higher Ilvl weapon than you too, and wildfire is probably the biggest variable due to crits (his highest wildfire during that was 7k, yours is around 5k)