Melee roles are being gimped in this game

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Originally Posted by DarkReed

Hi there,

I am proberly going to get yelled at for this. But why not.

On Archer, at level 20 & 40, they get action boost traits. I think these should kick in once the archer has been still for x ammount of seconds.

For example, if archer doesn't move, the first trait kicks in after 4 seconds, The get a Buff on screen like "Bunkered" or something. Then if contiunes to stay still, 4 seconds after the second trate activates. The Buff is lost once the archer moves.

As a tank, I can find it hard keeping hate with Bards sometimes, because I have to move out of AoE range and they keep firing away.

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You could at least call out when you are using other peoples ideas instead of taking credit for them.

From a post I made:

Alright, I lied in my last post. I will give a small amount of feedback on how I think bard should be changed. I would change Increased Action Damage I and II

Example

Increased Action Damage II: Increases base action damage by 20% after standing still for 3 seconds. This buff lasts for 1 second after moving.

This targets their mobility without removing it. This targets their damage without lowering it. Last but not least this targets their positioning without changing their abilities.

While that will not fix all the problems people have with bards (another being song stacking). I do think it is a solid start.

My take on melee design is that they should be high burst on demand to make up for the fact that they have to move at unpredictable times. The high burst can offset the lower sustained DPS. Granted, for balance, this burst has to be regulated somehow. That would be either spikey TP mechanics (similar to what Black Mages deal with) or with cooldowns on a few key abilities. Melee should also feature some really juicy group utility. Every job should have something to offer the group, something unique and desirable.

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Originally Posted by Sithlord006

My take on melee design is that they should be high burst on demand to make up for the fact that they have to move at unpredictable times. The high burst can offset the lower sustained DPS. Granted, for balance, this burst has to be regulated somehow. That would be either spikey TP mechanics (similar to what Black Mages deal with) or with cooldowns on a few key abilities. Melee should also feature some really juicy group utility. Every job should have something to offer the group, something unique and desirable.

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That's just not how some are built though. Monk burst is pretty much non-existent. Goon is probably the best burst in the game, or up there with bard at least. Melee is just bad, bad bad right now, and there's no reason or incentive to play anything other than bard to be completely honest other than durrrr i like dah animashunz!

My thing with Bard is that I really don't think the class is broken. It appears that way because it is the class that is least impacted by broken game mechanics, the delay on AoEs and mob cast times. Bards can be moving before it ever pops without breaking their attacks. Other classes either anticipate the cast, needlessly damaging their DPS, or try to move, lose DPS, AND get hit anyway. In my opinion, until that issue is dealt with, discussing class balance is a moot point.

I can think of lots of reasons to bring Summoner or Black Mage. Granted, the party is pretty much always better off with at least one Bard included, but I don't believe the ideal set up is 4 Bard DPS. Unfortunately, I can scarcely imagine any reason to bring a monk at all, and Dragoon is only good under certain conditions. I don't think Bard is overpowered to the point that it needs to be immediately fixed, but I whole heartedly agree that melee needs some love.

They just need to kill the need for positioning requirements for DRG. It really takes the fun out the job.

It's real simple: Risk versus Reward.
Range DPS enjoy having less risk, therefor their rewards should be less. Melee should enjoy greater rewards for the greater risk they take for being in so close.

Here's an example: In DCUO (say what you will about the MMO), DPS used to consist of only long range weapons because risk/reward was not balanced. They then gave an innate Critical Hit Chance buff, and a Critical Hit Damage buff to melee weapons (it would be classes in this game).

So, out goes range dps and in comes melee, right? No, not really. If a melee dps had the skill to survive through the greater RISK of being in melee range, then they would most certainly do greater damage than their ranged weapon counterparts--that is their REWARD. However, a dead DPS does no DPS. If the melee DPS could not handle the risk of being in melee, they would die, and ranged DPS would certainly over take them. The REWARD for being ranged DPS was less RISK of dying and less strain on the healers.

Giving melee classes an innate critical hit chance bonus of 10% and an innate critical hit damage bonus of 10% (or whatever combination) over their ranged counterparts could potentially fix this problem, or at least be a step in the right direction. Still, ranged dps has to be equally viable--just for other reasons.

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Originally Posted by Aries37

If SE were going to go the route of allowing melee dps to 'stick to bosses' they should take a page from TERA and give melee classes iframe skills, which if timed perfectly allow you to avoid damage without having to physically move out of the AOEs *cough*dragoon jump*cough*

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Honestly I'm surprised this isn't already how Jump works. I played a Shadowpriest in WoW and one of my favourite parts of the class was being able to survive certain mechanics through effective use of Shadowform, allowing me to maximize DPS by minimizing downtime. To me, these are the kinds of tricks that make DPS classes more fun to play.

Versus equally geared players, I've yet seen anyone outdpsin me by a large margin or just outdpsin me at all.

Melees aren't gimped, or bad, or anything you can think about. They are however 2 different designs : super high controlled burst on demand, and insane sustained damage with a lack of burst. Monks are pretty much on par with Summoners, which make them 2 the highest dds atm.

Melees arent bad. People are ;)

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Originally Posted by Jayded

That's just not how some are built though. Monk burst is pretty much non-existent. Goon is probably the best burst in the game, or up there with bard at least. Melee is just bad, bad bad right now, and there's no reason or incentive to play anything other than bard to be completely honest other than durrrr i like dah animashunz!

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What are you talking about? Melee dps destroys bard dps. Melee are very viable in end game.

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Originally Posted by CHunterX

Here's some simple suggestions for Monk that I believe will really help the class shine in endgame fights better:

Speed up all animations.
Change cross-class skills selection from Marauder to Archer. Monk is not a tank. Change should carry over to Dragoon as well.

Greased Lightning: Duration stays the same, but when you lose Greased Lightning, it drops down one stack (Greased Lightning III wears off and becomes Greased Lightning II).
Enhanced Featherfoot: In addition to evasion rate increase, freezes duration of Greased Lightning for its duration (makes it useful for parties/AoE situations)
Fists of Wind: Increase movement speed bonus (it's hardly a noticeable change currently), add "Additional Effect: Doubles duration of Greased Lightning stacks acquired after activating Fists of Wind" (Useful for fights like Garuda/Titan)

*Other stuff mentioned too*

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SE needs to hire this man.