CBU3. Please respect your players.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

Well despite some flaws I am enjoying FF16 and still enjoy FF14 so... yeah... take that... capatalisim?

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You made the choice to buy the game with your Own Money, and you are Enjoying it.
Thats what matters, not what anybody else thinks.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Anyone else feel like they should re-title FF16 as Final Fantasy Rising: Revengence? lol

Take pieces of lore from main franchise based around a different game genre to make faster paced action game with a few over the top boss battles, impressive visuals, and a solid soundtrack.

Also both games have a notable dog...

Just need an over the top battle against a human brawler who's abilities defy logic and limits... which can be easily remedied with a DLC where you fight Godbert Manderville. Phase 1 in his dapper suit only to strip down to his undies for Phase 2 where reality says "i'm out" and all hell breaks loose as he proceeds to suplex a doomtrain on top of you...

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FF16 was like Devil May Cry mixed with Game of Thrones, and then sprinkled with some Final Fantasy vibes. There wasn't even a twist or anything really. On top of that, it had horrible FPS, bad keybindings, out of nowhere dialogue mixups, poor lip sync, and animations from 2010. The way most characters interacted was quite like Skyrim, the only thing missing was the zoom in and people think that game is the Game of the Year? It's a bootleg God of War at best.

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

FF16 was like Devil May Cry mixed with Game of Thrones, and then sprinkled with some Final Fantasy vibes. There wasn't even a twist or anything really. On top of that, it had horrible FPS, bad keybindings, out of nowhere dialogue mixups, poor lip sync, and animations from 2010. The way most characters interacted was quite like Skyrim, the only thing missing was the zoom in and people think that game is the Game of the Year? It's a bootleg God of War at best.

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Unfortunately many bought into the hype, forgetting to be patient and wait for real reviews as players finish the game, and only found out about its lackluster gameplay elements deep into the game.

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Originally Posted by TheDecay

GoW sold way more copies than FF16. It proves that the appetite for games that challenge you, even in its normal difficulty, exists.

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FF16 is selling well and still waiting for PC release. GoW is a different game and sales of that game isn't a single variable of difficulty = more sales.

Like when I moved off healers to leveling tank jobs in FF14 I've noticed how BIG the difference between healer players can be. And that's like in old dungeons even. If you want a game with layers of more and more challenging content and where noobs are told to uninstall or worse then go play WoW. Each approach has it advantages but also disadvantages.

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Originally Posted by TheDecay

Should there be accessible options, totally. That's why they made those accessibility rings which I thought was a clever way to add difficulty options into the game that other developers should learn from.

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So you add normal, heroic, mythic, and scaling M+ dungeons. All the good players farm M+ but now FF14 has parsing, logging, and FFScore mandatory and 90% of players wanting to do M+ would be rejected just like in WoW as their score clearly indicates they are to bad a the game to do the content... have fun with competitive meta, way worse than what new PvP mode brought to the game :D

Imagine Yoshi talking about third-party apps not being allowed and 99% of the player base using the FFScore on the forum and in-game to get into groups... And gil selling sites switching to boosting services :D

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Originally Posted by TheDecay

But why is the base game in FF16 so unchallenging that there is little to no thought required? Even Hard mode is barely a challenge outside of one or two hunts. You already have the accessibility rings so why does the base game also need to be easy?

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"unchallenging"... this is relative, not absolute. Most Skyrim players could not cope with a basic skill system, while Dark Souls games are popular but have a specific playerbase only. You won't make a game that will please everyone.

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Originally Posted by TheDecay

Many players only play FF14 for the MSQ, yet the gameplay is extremely unchallenging and boring. Over the years, I have known plenty of people who did not get to the endgame because they were too bored out of their minds while doing the MSQ. And yet, the game keeps adding stuff like Very Easy option for solo instances. For every 1 person who stuck with the MSQ, there are 4 who tried it and quit because it was the most boring thing they've played in their lives. Isn't the MSQ supposed to the main attraction of this game? Then why is it so boring and uninteresting on a gameplay level?

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This is all relative and based on anecdotes. If it's not a hardcore game it should not be made for 1% of the playerbase. FF14 expansions aren't also made to be rushed to endgame and then parsed month by month in some elaborate raiding progression system. The game has clear GTFO break moments and playerbase is rising rather than dropping. Sproutbringer helped a lot with that but still, the game doesn't have problems. It can have in the future but for now, it's fine while not being anything of a "perfect game".

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Originally Posted by TheDecay

Respect your players and add some spice. They can handle it.

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You have savage, extreme, and unreal, get all ARR relics and whatnot. Or take a break and pick other games. This isn't Kottick WoW where you have to be subscribed 24/7.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I'd say that "throwaway things" are part of every RPG, MMO or not. There has to be the carrot to drive players onward and one of the carrots is the need to feel like we are more/better than how we started.

That there's a balance problem with FFXVI's "throwaway things" is evident. Being a single player game with all character progression effectively linear, there's no point in introducing weaker equipment only after the player has received better from the main story quests. It only makes sense in a MMO, where there will be other characters who can use that weaker gear even if the receiving player doesn't, or if the single player game allows the character to have multiple jobs that are leveled independently.

I am glad to hear it's gotten a lot more fun for you. It demonstrates some of the things that Josh Strife Hayes has said in one of his videos: a game will have a hard time keeping a player's interest if it doesn't get good in the player's eyes until after they've invested 20+ hours. But I think that's also a side effect of a game wanting to attract new players who have no previous experience with combat content. Those players need to be gradually introduced to various game concepts that a veteran gamer would already be familiar with or would at least have no problem figuring out the intent.

Should that mean that a hard mode is available from the start in every game? I don't think that's necessarily true depending on what the game is going to require for hard mode.

But what should be standard is a comprehensive tutorial scenario for those who are completely new to games that involve combat or for those that would prefer having an introduction to game specifics or the opportunity to get used to controls before being placed into the middle of action. Players could then choose to start at the tutorial or at the main game. And there should be a way to exit or re-enter the tutorial as the player decides they need. Making the tutorial part an unskippable part of the main game ends up causing a lot of dissatisfaction in those who really don't need it.

FFXIV would have benefitted from something like that. Imagine if as a veteran player, your character started at the point where you join the Scions instead of having to complete the starting area and then the first 3 dungeons. Those sections of the game really are a tutorial and do little to support the actual story of the game. The Ifrit section is also a little on the weak side for veteran gamers but I'd say it's still needed because that's where the real story starts (with the demonstration of the primal threat).

It will be interesting to see how the promised new starting point for new characters gets handled once it's introduced (hopefully with 7.0).

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Sorry I didn't see this before for some reason. I mostly agree - Great writeup. :)

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

FF16 was like Devil May Cry mixed with Game of Thrones, and then sprinkled with some Final Fantasy vibes. There wasn't even a twist or anything really. On top of that, it had horrible FPS, bad keybindings, out of nowhere dialogue mixups, poor lip sync, and animations from 2010. The way most characters interacted was quite like Skyrim, the only thing missing was the zoom in and people think that game is the Game of the Year? It's a bootleg God of War at best.

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I'd also noticed a fair amount of typos in the item descriptions, various flavor text entries, and the speech captions. Plus a number of instances where evasion windows and attack hitboxes don't match up with the enemy's animations.

The parts I get to play are entertaining and enjoyable mostly but I feel like overall I've watched more of the game than play it due to all the exposition breaks and cutscenes. It's not a bad game. However it's not the magum opus that will redefine anything in the gaming world. As it stands I kind of feel like this actually was a spin-off project that was given a number to be marketed as the primary franchise due to other somewhat recent endeavors not panning out like they had hoped. Essentially using that number designation to push sales which has caused a rather noticeable side effect of causing an ever increasing amount of division between gamers as very sizeable amounts of long time FF fans have voiced concerns of this title signaling that SE is taking the FF franchise away from the RPG fans that gave the series it's rise to prominence to give it to a different audience that has proven numerous times in the past to kill titles and franchises completely. There's also a sizeable number of longtime fans that are genuinely upset FF16 was turned into an action game rather than being given a meaty new RPG installment made specifically for PS5 hardware.

I was well aware of the combat in FF16 being action oriented. That didn't really bother me. However I was genuinely disappointed in the almost complete lack of mechanical depth the game has in regards to build options. We can choose what Eikons and abilities to slot once you progress far enough to have choices. And you can use relics to either obtain a few extra stat points or gain some effects that for the most part felt rather minor with a possible exception of the Berserk Ring which basically gives you a mini limit break every time you do a precision dodge. Your 3 primary gear slots are just basically stat point stickers. Elements don't matter, damage types don't matter, Your sword will hurt a gelatinous Flan just as much as it does a goblin. You can burn liquid flames to death... Kind of reminds you of this game in that regard doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by sharknado

Sproutbringer helped a lot with that but still, the game doesn't have problems.

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Is that a typo or did you really just say that FF14 doesn't have problems?

I'm not sure there can be ANY good faith discussion with anyone who thinks FF14 doesn't have problems.

For my part, I have praised FF14's story, visual design, and sound design, in case you start constructing a strawman.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I don't think the "Very Easy" mode should be gone with, for the sake of people who can't play well, but want to see the story...

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This.

Whilst this is humiliating to admit, I was (am) sufficiently terrible at the gameplay that I probably wouldn't have finished the MSQ without this option. :(

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Originally Posted by TheDecay

Is that a typo or did you really just say that FF14 doesn't have problems?

I'm not sure there can be ANY good faith discussion with anyone who thinks FF14 doesn't have problems.

For my part, I have praised FF14's story, visual design, and sound design, in case you start constructing a strawman.

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Sharknado is giving me Hardcore Casual vibes
https://i.imgur.com/bo0Rlys.jpg