Zepla about FFXIV Relic and Square Enix not taking any Risks

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

This implies that the same people are on all of those categories you've listed, and rather just not separate people and groups entirely.

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I think I had a stroke trying to read that.

Yes, a category is dull when there's nothing but super small streamers running through MSQ with their pals. There's no discussion, hype, community content. It's just.. MSQ and DJ.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

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That respect should be a two way street. The more emotional and galvanizing posts from unsatisfied people are a result of the devs demonstrating time and time again that they are not listening. I don't think I've ever seen a dev post in this forum, and the most I've seen of these topics being brought up in live media is YoshiP mentioning having heard something about something in passing. It's also not an issue of "it's my way or your way" there are issues being discussed that can easily be designed to satisfy a much broader spectrum of players without turning against those who like how things now. But the devs have seemingly deliberately chosen to not even humor those who would like more of something else. Respecting the devs time and efforts is all fine and good. But at some point, as you say, there is the last straw that breaks the camels back.

As for the memes, insults, and echoes. At this point, I've seen both sides of the forum have resorted to it.

Some people are not as content with the notion that they "have no power to change" the game they play and pay for. The customers feedback should be exactly what a spurs change in a product. And then comes the argument of "just play something else"...

In MMOs people build their character, they earn achievements, make social circles, invest in the story and world and mechanics, and otherwise commit to a game they love and put a lot of effort into. This phenomenon is the the entire basis of the MMO genre's success. This is the reason WoW is seeing it's 9th expansion - not because it is or has been a good game. Getting someone to abandon an MMO they have invested in is not a simple process.

This is why the "play something else" argument is unconvincing. People WANT to play the game. And when they do they want to feel like they are enjoying it and they feel stuck when they have to choose between continuing to not enjoy the game or abandon their investment. This coupled with the feeling of powerlessness due to the lack of dev interaction is especially disheartening.

I'm not saying either side is right or wrong. I'm just trying to rationalize what it is you and I are seeing and experiencing in the forums nowadays.

Edit: This doesn't pertain to people who are blatantly trolling and making no effort at good faith in their posting.

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Originally Posted by R041

I think I had a stroke trying to read that.

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I must have given you too much credit in your comprehension then. I won't do it again.

The point was that players excited for the streamers from WoW aren't exactly the same players that are spitting on the streamers we have left.

Is that simple enough for you?

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I must have given you too much credit in your comprehension then. I won't do it again.

The point was that players excited for the streamers from WoW aren't exactly the same players that are spitting on the streamers we have left.

Is that simple enough for you?

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Yes thank you ma'am, and or sir. My tiny cells can finally comprehend the gigamind.

Sure, you can say that as a veil - It doesn't detract from the fact that the community as a whole seemed way more cheerful and happy when we were in the spotlight by big variety streamers.

It's still sad that we can't even say anything nice about the creators we've had for years, because they're the ones that'll hopefully stick around when the wave is cleared. If we let them wash away then we have nothing. It even seemed kinda difficult for Happy to post a video in disappointment. He probably expects backlash to some degree.

What happens when they leave is we're stuck with expac release hype generator variety streamers that are just paid for, they don't actually like XIV. Then we go on with the dopamine thinking they actually care about us, while they go on to play the next big release for money. Repeat every expac.

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Originally Posted by Frodnoxx

That respect should be a two way street. The more emotional and galvanizing posts from unsatisfied people are a result of the devs demonstrating time and time again that they are not listening. I don't think I've ever seen a dev post in this forum, and the most I've seen of these topics being brought up in live media is YoshiP mentioning having heard something about something in passing. It's also not an issue of "it's my way or your way" there are issues being discussed that can easily be designed to satisfy a much broader spectrum of players without turning against those who like how things now. But the devs have seemingly deliberately chosen to not even humor those who would like more of something else. Respecting the devs time and efforts is all fine and good. But at some point, as you say, there is the last straw that breaks the camels back.

As for the memes, insults, and echoes. At this point, I've seen both sides of the forum have resorted to it.

Some people are not as content with the notion that they "have no power to change" the game they play and pay for. The customers feedback should be exactly what a spurs change in a product. And then comes the argument of "just play something else"...

In MMOs people build their character, they earn achievements, make social circles, invest in the story and world and mechanics, and otherwise commit to a game they love and put a lot of effort into. This phenomenon is the the entire basis of the MMO genre's success. This is the reason WoW is seeing it's 9th expansion - not because it is or has been a good game. Getting someone to abandon an MMO they have invested in is not a simple process.

This is why the "play something else" argument is unconvincing. People WANT to play the game. And when they do they want to feel like they are enjoying it and they feel stuck when they have to choose between continuing to not enjoy the game or abandon their investment. This coupled with the feeling of powerlessness due to the lack of dev interaction is especially disheartening.

I'm not saying either side is right or wrong. I'm just trying to rationalize what it is you and I are seeing and experiencing in the forums nowadays.

Edit: This doesn't pertain to people who are blatantly trolling and making no effort at good faith in their posting.

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With how little behavior and tone is moderated here, I wouldn't come here as a dev either. They really need to hire full time community mods like ESO.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

With how little behavior and tone is moderated here, I wouldn't come here as a dev either. They really need to hire full time community mods like ESO.

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Just not as...gungho as them please. I've seen people with nice attitudes and good suggestions get banned just because of a criticism of something that was in the game and how to fix it.

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Originally Posted by R041

Yes thank you ma'am, and or sir. My tiny cells can finally comprehend the gigamind.

Sure, you can say that as a veil - It doesn't detract from the fact that the community as a whole seemed way more cheerful and happy when we were in the spotlight by big variety streamers.
It's still sad that we can't even say anything nice about the creators we've had for years, because they're the ones that'll hopefully stick around when the wave is cleared. If we let them wash away then we have nothing.

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Good enough for me.

It doesn't really matter since they aren't necessarily the same people in the first place, so you're always going to have a divisive element, it was just a bad portrayal on your part.

It just so happened that the number of people hyped for the streamers greatly outweighed the number of people that weren't (or were just outright antagonistic). In fact, when it was announced on here in some threads, there were some people that weren't overly enthusiastic and just went about their day.

Now it's just back to the same routine that players on the forum have always had - Without the crowds of people that were excited about the WoW exodus streamers.

That being said, I will give you a point, yes, there are a pretty hefty number of people that are frankly unnecessarily antagonistic toward streamers, for no other fault other than they pursue their career/interests. Personally, I just leave them be but are nevertheless appreciative for what they may have, or have not done for the game.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Just not as...gungho as them please. I've seen people with nice attitudes and good suggestions get banned just because of a criticism of something that was in the game and how to fix it.

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Haha yeah, sometimes they moderate the smallest things. But, I'd still take that over what happens here if I had to choose one of the two.

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Originally Posted by R041

Yes thank you ma'am, and or sir. My tiny cells can finally comprehend the gigamind.

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It was a simple sentence. Maybe you need rest. Take care of yourself

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Good enough for me.

It doesn't really matter since they aren't necessarily the same people in the first place, so you're always going to have a divisive element, it was just a bad portrayal on your part.

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To be fair, everything's a bad portrayal on my part. lol

I watch most of these streamers, and watch their vids on Youtube. I don't even agree with everything they say of course - but I try to support them as much as possible, because it's all we have.