Do you want a cash shop in FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by Lavani

Lol must be that time of the month for you.

Anyway, why do you think those games are F2P with cash shops? because they are making more money that way than with a sub.

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If FFXIV was F2P with a cash shop, and I mean cash shops that I have seen in other F2P MMORPGs, I would no longer play FFXIV

I don't mind a vanity/fluff shop, hell I would like that, but you start adding things in that actually do things, and that is where I start having a problem. FFXI got a little close with the mog sack and that outfit, but I had been playing the game for so long by then I stayed. (Plus the mog sack did not bother me to much, I bought that mainly for the security token)

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Originally Posted by Lavani

Lol must be that time of the month for you.

Anyway, why do you think those games are F2P with cash shops? because they are making more money that way than with a sub.

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if by that time of the month you mean the-time-of-the-month-when-i'm-sick-of-dealing-with-xxxxxxed-people, then yes.

no shit sherlock, nobody here is saying that F2P games w/ lolblings makes less money than subscription based games, what people ARE saying is that it doesn't belong in a subscription-based MMO like FF14.

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Originally Posted by weeble

inch by inch they are gonna destroy mmo's and charge for every little thing in them cause of people like this willing to cough up whatever amount of money for these things. companies make way to much money on these easy to do and make extra's ...kinda sucks in my opinion. at some point i will rather not play mmo's then deal with this. but i agree with you ..this is the direction they want and they are slowly getting there. i for one will never buy a bagel cause they tax it in nyc. lol just me.

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You know me? No you don't. I'm stating what I see is trending and gaining tremendous support so much so that it is changing how people think about how they can pay for things and have greater control over what they can get for how much.

It doesn't have anything to do with what I personally choose to afford.

You guys can rage all you want, it won't change much.

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Originally Posted by Cendres

You know me? No you don't. I'm stating what I see is trending and gaining tremendous support so much so that it is changing how people think about how they can pay for things and have greater control over what they can get for how much.

It doesn't have anything to do with what I personally choose to afford.

You guys can rage all you want, it won't change much.

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well almost all pay to play games fail, then go cash shop free to play. so i guess people not handing over there money will make a difference see. yes they stayed in business this way threw targeting suckers, but the mass majority left, and there will always be mmo's that will target people that aren't suckers or they would just be waisting potential. so yes it will matter when we just stop playing. pay2win is over payed old dudes baby sitting little kids playing for free and thinking they rock. babysitters get payed not shell out cash. ty. also i wasn't raging, i state facts. ty again.

Remember when in games you didn't have to pay for alternate costumes? Colors? Stages? Characters? DLC ruined gaming because of people willing to throw away money on things that come standard when you buy a full priced game.

Cash Shops::MMO destruction.
as
DLC::Offline Gaming destruction.

Not everyone likes to blow money on features that should be obtainable in game for free -- As I said, extra retainers and characters you have to buy in XI/XIV makes sense given the game's setup, but buying hairstyles and the like doesn't make sense in a P2P game.

Also about F2P making more money than sub? That's not true at all because in F2P MMOs the largest playerbase are the ones who quit or just play the "standard" because they're not going to buy their way around. It's very unlikely that they're making a comparable amount monthly compared to sub based games for the sole reason not everyone is partaking in the cash-shop, an example:

With FFXI, the sub fee is 12.95, then there were expansion packs which ran for $20-$30+ which includes Zilart (only we had to buy this, NA/EU got it packaged), Chains of Promathia, Treasures of Aht Urhgan and Wings of the Goddess, then 6 add-ons which totals $60 -- Now, given the highest population of FFXI in 2004/2005 it was nearing 1 million, with 2 million+ characters and each additional character was $1.00, they were making well over $20 million USD a month, converted to Yen is well over 1,561,204,843¥ a month.

If F2P games made that much money if not "more" then the quality of those games would be a lot better than they are, wouldn't they? Where is that money going if it's not going towards game quality? FFXI for example essentially paid for most of Square's projects including FFXIV no doubt.

So a cash-shop does supplement a P2P based game's income, but it also kills the game because I shouldn't have to pay real money to change my hairstyle, or have a wedding or to get better looking gear. Cash Shops is a slippery slope -- You want to full customize your character? We'll give you a taste, but we expect you to pay us $50 for full options!

I'll pay $50 for expansion packs, not hairstyles and color options.

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Originally Posted by weeble

even though i hate cash shops and things of that nature, if 10bucks can get me a mini expansion with few weeks of quests and handfull of bosses and mini bosses and a nice story line with a piece of gear at the end i might welcome those. granted i think the monthly should be enough but long as i feel like these mini expansions aren't in place of stuff we should of gotten from the game box sale i wouldn't complain.

but rather then having 3 of em near the death of ffxi, add a few between each expansions, spread them out so they are on top of what we already have, that way tons of stuff to do, the storylines and boss battles (cop,zilart,wotg,mini expansions) love that stuff and i don't think they can ever have enough of them in game.

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Mini expansions are a little bit different because they are not part of cash shops. Though personally I think the mini expansions should be free and add new content in stages which I think Yoshi-p has planned and has already been doing. Adding new content like Ifrit and strongholds etc.

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

Mini expansions are a little bit different because they are not part of cash shops. Though personally I think the mini expansions should be free and add new content in stages which I think Yoshi-p has planned and has already been doing. Adding new content like Ifrit and strongholds etc.

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i agree, i don't think anything needs to be "extra" or cost more outside the monthly charge, but for most part everyone is giving examples of what they would or wouldn't pay for. i'd pay for these types for certain, but i would never pay for costumes or things that won't progress me in some form other then looks. and even though i think i would rather see them charge these people 10bucks for the outfit then add the cost to my monthly i still think that the monthly itself is enough for everything they add. also i think just adding costumes with no stats is just a small step to full blown stuff with stats. so yeah i don't like it. it's all about milking more money from everything they can from you. and while i'm not poor or really cheap, i can't see myself pay for stuff like that and eventually after my 2nd mount bought cause every year a new one comes out with 10% faster speed i'll get pissed.

This is why a Cash shop in at least the FF P2P MMOs are bad:



This simple bonus item for buying even a steam collection for example caused an uproar:

"ITS NOT FAIR!"

"I BOUGHT ALL OF THE EXPANSIONS ONE BY ONE! GIVE IT TO ME!"

The fact a bonus item for joining XI caused such an uproar, think of what cash shop items would do.

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Originally Posted by weeble

well almost all pay to play games fail, then go cash shop free to play. so i guess people not handing over there money will make a difference see. yes they stayed in business this way threw targeting suckers, but the mass majority left, and there will always be mmo's that will target people that aren't suckers or they would just be waisting potential. so yes it will matter when we just stop playing. pay2win is over payed old dudes baby sitting little kids playing for free and thinking they rock. babysitters get payed not shell out cash. ty. also i wasn't raging, i state facts. ty again.

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Your facts are blurred by your own bias and therefore are flawed. Try looking up the actual facts. Those so called 'failed' games did not just survive their transition to freemium they thrived. And do notice I said "you guys can rage all you want" meaning I meant not just you.

And Jennestia your arguments were all brought up through the EQ2 Xtended development with people stating they would leave and yet... They are doing pretty darned well since then.

The proof is in the pudding. Doesn't matter much to me because I've finally come to the realization that these are just different ways of supporting something I love doing. I've heard and even said myself that I would quit MMOs forever if cash shops became the norm, but I've had to really look at it a lot more closely since then. The key is to steer the model to something you're comfortable with. Don't like pay to win items? Don't support it. But companies have already learned that lesson anyway.

What isn't really being discussed enough here is that the freemium model offers more freedom for the customer and yet brings in more revenue because people are more likely to find your game more attractive if the entry point is open. It's not really about the evils of cash shops but more about offering diversity and options. Which is why I firmly believe that freemium and subscription hybrids will become the norm and not the crappy exception very soon, and one could argue it's already like this.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

This is why a Cash shop in at least the FF P2P MMOs are bad:



This simple bonus item for buying even a steam collection for example caused an uproar:

"ITS NOT FAIR!"

"I BOUGHT ALL OF THE EXPANSIONS ONE BY ONE! GIVE IT TO ME!"

The fact a bonus item for joining XI caused such an uproar, think of what cash shop items would do.

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who cares... this has nothing to do with cashshops. if SE had a cash shop they could have sold those people these items and guess what....omg no uproar. if you don't want a item from the cash shop don't buy it. they could also give people a way to farm cash shop currency, in game.