Red Mage (Tank) Please!

While I know you didn't mean "ranged tank", Nektulos (I merely responded to the "how would such a thing work" comment, incidentally giving an example of such a thing already existing in another game), I'm slightly worried regarding the whole 'casting while taking damage' thing.

If you make "cannot be interrupted" part of their tank stance, wouldn't that take them one step toward being over-powered? I haven't played PLD much at all, so I haven't seen at what rate they get interrupted while casting Stoneskin or mini-Cures (don't know if their new, innate healing abilities have cast bars and as such would be interruptable as well). And yes, I know your suggested RDM wouldn't have access to healing -- which in itself seems like a miss, since afaik having access to both attack magic and healing magic was part of the Red Mage setup -- but I'd like to know your thoughts around this "cannot be interrupted" thing =)

Also, if 3/4 of their aggro skills (just skimmed through your proposed list, might have missed something) are their physical attacks, my concern is that there is very little time/incentive to actually use their magic, other than when off-tanking. Since holding aggro is a tank's job, elaborate side-rotations (that take longer than physical skills due to cast bar) aren't really that feasible. If you look at the current tanks, their non-aggro skills are either the "off-tank combo", or off-GCD instant skills that you throw in while waiting for GCD to tick around. Again, I'm not saying this to immediately reject your idea, but more to understand how you're thinking, maybe even help you develop it further
^^
(And yes, I know a good tank doesn't need to focus on their 1-2-3 aggro combo all the time, and can even do stance dancing in order to do more damage, but aggro combo is still the basic foundation of a tank.)

Red Mage sounds like it'll be complicated, but SqEX has a plan already as it seems. i don't understand why Red Mage when Sage is far more powerful. I just want Necromancer and Samurai but I'll save that for a different thread.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

"cannot be interrupted" part of their tank stance, wouldn't that take them one step toward being over-powered?

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It would be overpowered for Paladin because of how the class was made but this is a completely new job. So you can't really say its OP or UP until you play it.

Oh heck no op and also you can put that cross class idea to bed any further job release will be a job no class and will start at level 30 here on out

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

It is still expected to DPS. That is why for a little bit people were complaining about Bards/MCHs being replaced and now you want a class that is even less then that?

A DPS class that cannot DPS is useless to this game.

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I...What? What are you even talking about? I feel like this has nothing to do with what I said.

I know BRD/MCH are expected to DPS...That's what their MAIN ROLE in this game makes them be even if they're a form of Hybrid.

I'm not even requesting anything at all. This is your request for a Magic Tank or some evasive tank. Which by the way, using magic to block attacks or reduce damage just sounds like PLD with a different coat of paint.

FYI - I think a RDM can cast Black magic(spike series) +White magic(stoneskin/blink/phalanx) and RDM can equip "fencer+shield".

But Red Mage is a hybrid mage - uses both white (healing) and black magic (elemental dmg).
IMO the "caster tank" I read from OP is not a Red Mage. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

FYI - I think a RDM can cast Black magic(spike series) +White magic(stoneskin/blink/phalanx) and RDM can equip "fencer+shield".

But Red Mage is a hybrid mage - uses both white (healing) and black magic (elemental dmg).
IMO the "caster tank" I read from OP is not a Red Mage. ^^;

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Eh, the way I think about it thusly. What do you call a character that outputs a non-negligable amount of damage, and also has high support/defense/healing? You call that a tank. I'm in the crowd that'd prefer more magical defenses, rather than a shield, but eh, I'll just be happy to be able to tank with a rapier in that awesome hat.

Make it a melee DPS capable of casting buff spells (oGCD) that buff themselves in certain ways. The oGCD buff abilities will depend on the route of attacks you decide to go with (like Ninjutsu, but without the server lag). Main weapon will be the rapier, of course.

1-2 combo = En-Ice: Makes all attacks (related to combo) cause Chill DoT. Applies player with TP Regain buff for 15 seconds.
1-2-3 combo = En-Fire: 10% damage boost for 30 seconds, attacks become AoE's (TP of abilities is doubled).
1-3-2 combo = En-Light: Makes all attacks cause Defence down (for 10 seconds, mob immune after) and increases Skill Speed for 30 seconds.
Enspell: Depending on the combo, Enspell will become En-{Element} and buff the player. 60 second cooldown.

There would be other skill combinations (4-5, 4-5-6, 4-6-5) to include Thunder, Water and Dark, but I can't think of them at the moment. Other abilities to think of, too. Like {Element}-Spikes, Dia, Banish, etc.

Level 1 – Combo 1
Level 2 – Dia (DoT, instant cast)
Level 4 – Combo 2
Level 6 - Blink (Evasion up)
Level 8 – Combo 4
Level 10 – Distract (target evasion down)
Level 12 – Spirit Dart (ranged attack)
Level 15 – Comrade in War (DoT on mob + party TP Regain 5 seconds. 60 second CD)
Level 18 – Temper (2.5 second cast)
Level 22 – Reraise (instant cast. Off global cool down. Sacrifice 80% MP to grant a party member with Reraise buff. Buff duration 15 seconds.
Level 26 – Combo 3
Level 30 – Banish (170 damage potency, MP cost similar to Thunder. Dia DoT's have a 5% chance in turning Banish into an AoE)
Level 30 (Job) Enspell
Level 34 – Dia II (2.5 second cast. 50 damage Potency and DoT. Dia DoT's can stack)
Level 35 (Job) Element Spikes
Level 38 - Combo 5
Level 40 (Job) Phalanx (5 second cast. 50% Defence Boost on target for 20 seconds)
Level 42 – Frazzle (AoE INT and Piercing resistance down. Cannot be stacked with Disembowel)
Level 45 (Job) NulAll (Reduce parties magic vulnerability by 15% )
Level 46 - Combo 6
Level 50 – Banish II (240 damage potency, MP similar to Thunder II. Dia DoT's have a 5% chance in turning Banish II into an AoE)
Level 50 (Job) Death Blossom (sacrifice 20% HP to deal 400 potency single target damage. Can only be used in En-Dark)
Level 52 – Comrade in Magic (give 25% of MP to a party member. 120 second cool down)
Level 54 – Refresh (oGCD, 2.5 second cast. Grants user with Refresh buff for 30 seconds. 120 second cooldown)
Level 56 – Accession (makes the next Spike or Barspell you use AoE with 50% less potency. 90 second cool down)
Level 58 – Banish III (damage potency 300, MP cost similar to Thunder III. Dia DoT's have a 5% chance in turning Banish III into an AoE)
Level 60 – Manifestation (extends the duration of all Enspell, Spike and Barspells buffs by 20 seconds)

Enspell – 60 second Cool Down.
En-Blizzard: Chill DoT. TP Regain for 15 seconds.
En-Fire: Damage Up for 30 seconds. Physical attacks are AoE. TP use is doubled.
En-Light: Vulnerability Down on target for 10 seconds. Boosts targets-target defence by 20% for 20 seconds.
En-Water: Dropsy DoT. HP Regen for 15 seconds.
En-Air: Skill Speed up for 30 seconds. TP use is lowered
En-Dark: Vulnerability Down on target for 10 seconds. Grants targets-target with Dread Spikes.

Spike – 160 second Cool Down. Physical attacks only.
Ice Spikes: Reduces damage taken by 15% and delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Blaze Spikes: Delivers an attack with a potency of 200 if struck with physical attacks.
Holy Spikes: Delivers an attack with a potency of 50. Grants user with Refresh.
Water Spikes: Delivers an attack with a potency of 50. Grants user with Regen.
Air Spikes: Delivers an attack with a potency of 75. Boosts users attack speed.
Dread Spikes: Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Converts 5% of physical damage dealt to user to HP.

1-2 = Ice
1-2-3 = Fire
1-3-2 = Light

4-5 = Water
4-5-6 = Air
4-6-5 = Dark

RDM could be a tank fairly easy, to be completely honest, as it was a tank of sorts in the original Final Fantasy. Red Mage was definitely one of the classes you put at the top of the party list to draw most of the attacks.

As for armor, a RDM would be wearing the same gear that LNC/DRG gets, which, if anyone had paid attention to while they were leveling, is actually usable by the three tanks as well, as tank gear. Light Armor tanks have been a thing in many an MMO, based on tank stances giving them additional defense boosts to the gear they are wearing. Taken to the extremes, you have tank classes like SWTOR's Assassin tank. It wore cloth armor, but boosted their defensive stat massively upon putting on their tank stance.

Therefore, the arguments of "RDM won't work as tank because reasons!" are invalid. It very well could work as a tank, and still be a classic RDM, because you literally cannot get more classic than the very first appearance of a class, no matter what variations later installments decided to roll with. It's why DRK as tank isn't completely out of left field, because Cecil's role as DRK was to tank and take hits, long before he became a PLD. Even FFIII's DRK was rather bulky, though the Remake fixed their lower VIT stat to something more reasonable.

The point is, RDM is a special class. We all know it. It's part of why we all love it. No matter which way they go with our beloved RDM, even if we don't personally like it, it's not going to be something that a RDM has never done before. They've tanked. They've healed. They've DPSed. They've supported parties. The iconic Red Mage is a jack of all trades. It does everything. Whether the FFXIV crew focuses on making RDM do everything, or gives it an actual focus, it's still going to be a RDM. Might be a different flavor than what we were expecting/wanting, but that doesn't mean they've "ruined" RDM. Just means they went with something they felt embodied XIV's RDM.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

It would be overpowered for Paladin because of how the class was made but this is a completely new job. So you can't really say its OP or UP until you play it.

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What? You're the one responsible for the concept; you're the one who has to consider these things. You can't just wave concerns away and say "pfft, you can't say it is until you play it".
(Also, you completely ignored my second question xD)