Jobs you feel yoshi and team got wrong

I'd much rather have had Summoner be about summoning.

The current situation where you just summon Garuda-Egi (or is Ifrit finally worth a damn these days?) and micromanage one pet skill while 90% of the Job is Ruin/DoT rotation just isn't Summoner to me...

Would have been better if they didn't go for a Mage/Melee/Tank archetype for the pets and instead made it so their abilities aren't on a shared cooldown, meaning it becomes more appealing to switch them out frequently to maximize damage. All they'd need to do is provide additional tools for quick summoning (because just Swiftcast doesn't cut it), or better yet just have the actual summoning be an attack that spawns the Egi, rather than just spawning the Egi.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i feel a lot of people complaining about the summoner miss why they have done it like this.
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Indeed actually the jobs need more pet skill and pet command.

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So, you're saying the job is fine the way it is. But you're also saying that it needs changes?

i think that the summoner need more skill for be different from the arcanist, same a new pet with different pet skill is needed. same what i call pet command is a system more interesting than what we have.

but i do think too that the dot part is a smart choice for give some tool to the summoner for be different than a black mage

All i will say is PLD with their boring combos. Yes, i know they are mainly defensive cooldowns but come on..give them some attacking skills. So far we have seen 1 new PLD offensive skill. I hope its not 1,2,3 and 4! That is so mind blowing it hurts ;-;

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

let's say they have done the Summoner like in FFT or any previous game:
- summoner summon ifrit for he launch a fire attack and disappear. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.
- Black mage cast Fire. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.

that sole example resume all, make the summoner "summon" an primal for launch an attack is not different than a black mage simply casting the spell. the damage and function of the spell is the same.

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Well, with the earlier use of Summoner it wouldn't be the same X, nor would those attacks take place at the same time. The summoning skills that summoners use are very high cost and can't be used continuously, but when they finally are used, they're extremely powerful. The result is by far the highest burst damage in the game, balanced by quite a bit of downtime in between when their skills are pretty limited. (Black Mage might have a little of that type of effect in the low levels of some previous games, when they don't have enough MP yet to maintain continuous spellcasting, but generally by mid-game, a Black Mage can keep casting spells at every turn.)

The DoT focus of FFXIV's summoners completely reverses this pattern. Instead of extremely bursty damage, their damage is smoothed out into a continuous steady stream. It can be a fun job in its own right, but it really doesn't feel like a summoner.

Summoner does not feel like a summoner job of any Final Fantasy and drastically needs a rework or redesign.

The Bard can only be changed IF SE learns they can only reinvent the triad classes so many times before they overlap. So will eventually come back with Support Jobs. This will prompt a BRD redesign, but sadly its prob many expansions away.

The ACN class splitting off into SCH and SMN makes for awkward stat allocation. All mind or all int? Meh, time to buy a stack of stat reset tomes.

I'm sure it causes problems for the devs when they're rebalancing skills too.

SMN for me is a bit of an issue. Besides what everyone says about it not having the essence of a Final Fantasy Summoner or being much of a pet class, it also is getting the short end of the stick now with them doing away with the 2 jobs per class. It no longer has much of an identity seeing as how most of the spells seem more fitted to Scholar than a Summoner (despite usually also being advanced black mages)
In other FF's there were DOT abilities tied to elements (Burn, Choke, Drown, Shock) Which could be tied to pets basically reskinning Bio and Miasma.

Paladin also needs some of its healing skills like it had in 1.0.
Black Mage is mostly fun to play but its a bit sad that Fire is the only damaging spell. I miss elements a bit. I get its purpose but Fire was always my least favorite spells in FF's so I don't play BLM.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

that sole example resume all, make the summoner "summon" an primal for launch an attack is not different than a black mage simply casting the spell. the damage and function of the spell is the same. that why they have make the summoner like this.

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the damage kind of should be the same because if you have DPS classes that do very different damage there will be huge imbalances. the function is the same because you made it the same. the "summoning" should be more complicated than that. you can still keep the job based on Astral Flow charges. what you needed to do was give Bane and Fester different effects depending on which pet was out.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

worst, summoner depending of the number of pet, can simply have tons of skill in comparaison to the other jobs, or simply have a tune down pet that simply be a swap color... since it will only be the type of damage that will change.

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how is that different from BLMs having Thunder, Ice and Fire spells? you have Ifrit, Garuda, Titan skills. when the level cap goes up you get new skills for the new avatar/egi.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Not to mention that by endgame those type of pet classes become burdens to raids because they could be filling that spot with someone whose damage won't drop by 3/4 after the boss AoEs.

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those are badly designed fights and right now they don't exist, pets don't die automatically to raid AOEs.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

snips

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i feel you ignore the main point.... the function of the spell is the same. the only difference in what you say is: it's a burst.... anyway, if you must make it work, you need to maintain balance, leading to the fact that instead to cast multiple spell like the black mage, you will cast less spell... leading you, as summoner, to do the same thing but with less action.
for make simple you want to play a jobs, that will only use a skill evry 5-10 second... seriously people need to stop to use solo rpg game as example for how must be the summoner.
even the FF11 summoner had a looot of issues that some people try to minimize, like the fact that only a few summon was really usefull.

you must understand that them goal is to make a jobs that will be fun to play, not be like in a solo rpg. with a summoner a la FF11 as example a version of FF14 will not be different than a black mage nor will be fun to play.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

the damage kind of should be the same because if you have DPS classes that do very different damage there will be huge imbalances. the function is the same because you made it the same. the "summoning" should be more complicated than that. you can still keep the job based on Astral Flow charges. what you needed to do was give Bane and Fester different effects depending on which pet was out.

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is not about doing same or different type of damage but do the same function. even if you call ifrit for launch a fire skill and disappear, is not different that cast a fireball, the only difference is to have ifrit come... it's only change the graphical effect of a spell that will have the same function. deal fire damage for x potency to X enemy.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

how is that different from BLMs having Thunder, Ice and Fire spells? you have Ifrit, Garuda, Titan skills. when the level cap goes up you get new skills for the new avatar/egi.

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black mage do have 3 type of element that true, but if you look to the function of skill it's either a dot (thunder line) or mono/multi-target damage spell (fire/ice line). in the case of the fire/ice damage they are actually the same spell. with a difference of potency. but they offer 3 function at best. each egi offer 3 skill with different function.... with each egi you add more spell with different function will be added.