I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

But muh ebin maymays, gotta fill my patch quota. Conciseness would be fine as the dragon trait if it wasn't way too concise and had left out all this info.

Once again a character is entirely different in EN than in JP, which is still perfectly fine mind you and still is for our spoony JP Elezen being normal in EN, it's just the way it's done in this case. Especially because it's such a key event, even more because at first it might lead you into thinking that sealing/severing the Blessing would have also sealed the Echo, but apparently the Echo and the Blessing are different things and sealing the Blessing doesn't cancel the Echo even though they come from the same being.

So in turn in the EN version he seals the Blessing because why not, he's a maymay spouting dickish dragon and now he rides on our shoulder or head because screw you he's a dragon, while in the JP version he pretty much explains his reasons clearly. He's still cheering for his own dragon team and won't really do anything to stop them because he also probably can't but he also thinks Ishgardians deserve it, but he doesn't come off as shady for doing what he did with the Blessing. There's a very clear difference between striping and locking away something, and he also clarifies what the trial is and that completing it will actually accomplish something good.

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Originally Posted by Karen_Cerfrumos

Agnes Lynd here.
There's a disclaimer right there saying that in fact the second translation is not stylistically edited at all.
However, Japanese text despite being written in faux olde Japanese so commonly used for characters such as Midgardsormr in Japanese pop fiction/fantasy, is very straightforward.
It pretty much amounts to the same thing as sprinkling the text with words and wordforms such as harken, thou and comesth in otherwise modern English.

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Yeah, it's almost exactly the same in that sense. Just as common too, really. Everyone reading English knows what "thou" means just like everyone reading Japanese knows what "汝" means.

Just thought your disclaimer could use some repeating - seen a few people here confusing it for meaning Midgardsormr sounds "flat" or has no character, etc. Not that standard-ancient-knowledgeable-power is too far above no character, but still.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Yes it is; that's what the whole "sons will pay for the sins of the fathers" line is about. I'm a bit surprised that everyone seems to think that line is referring solely to things that happened in the past, because to me it was quite clear that it's referring to the repeating cycle. Things that my parents did can affect me down the line, and likewise, my actions can affect my future children.

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I also was considering the time frame of 'Sormr's life. Just think about how long he has been living, compared to the life span of us the crime was done yesterday and now they're at it again. With that maybe he doesn't need to emphasize the sentence in past and present tense, it probably wouldn't make sense to him. Of course the "we do not forget" kind of conflicts with that, but not strictly per say... just ... leans against the idea. Its not a hard argument but I could see it being a possibility, time is relative after all.

From the names of his abilities in the fight you can see he has a dislike for us - we're or people like us are being judged for some crime on multiple occasions, mayhap he even includes his death. However, later he singles out Ishgard showing that he knows we're not all part of the system, but sees little worth in us as Ramuh initially did. Ramuh: "hah you guys suuu-- oh maybe you don't WoL, let me test you".

Since there is little reason for him and his kin to like us, I feel the English dialog captures what I feel to be a likely response. He has a personal opinion in this situation, we are kind of crappy to him and not worth much breath like some NPC just waiting for the PC's appearance to divulge the entire plot and previous plot just encase PC forgot to read. Only due to his respect/and or pact to Mother shall he not harm us. Particularly, he insinuates our death would have been too easy (and I believe it, being able to sever our blessing). Further to his dislike, and agreement to Mother, I think the lack of verbose exposition and Q&A time leads well to the idea he is testing us and we deserve little from him, he is not there for our beck and call.

He may not have said all so specifically like the Japanese version but imo the answers are still there, we know he stripped us of our blessing, we know he has an agreement with Mother, we know there is a rise to action against Ishgard, he will not harm us now that he knows our association, he has bound us to him, we know he is watching us, he suggests for us to fight, we know he is reforming and that those who are loyal or penitent (repented) will rejoice, this is the beginning and there will be an end with foreboding pause. After the battle he reaffirms that challenge to action (test), "Art thou a pawn, or a master of thy fate? What hast thou wrought by thine own hands, mortal?". A tremendously powerful and intelligent creature that only has a onze of interest and care for us due to his agreement with Mother.

I understand people's preference for delivery or sameness across culture-- but I feel like I've lost little and gained respect in a world environment (behaves as a character and not a whim to the PC as a convenient dues ex machina plot tool) and on a personal out of game level that I don't need it to be verbosely spelled out just encase I didn't get it. Now to be clear, I'm not saying those who want the other version are saying they can't compile and conclude information or want it because it was too hard, preference does not mean a lack of ability.

Finally I don't think this will deviate plot, he'll talk down to us until or if we can ever curry favor, but still do the same things as the other language clients. He does have an agreement with Mother and did bind us to him, he does not seek our blood, anymore - he just doesn't fancy to wipe our backside like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by File2ish

I'm not sure about you all, but to me when the writer just lays out everything in plain it makes it feel like the writer thinks we, the audience, are too stupid to piece things together.

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These are exactly my feelings about JP Midgardsormr. He essentially serves as a giant exposition dump rather than a character in that scene, which I find MORE condescending than his English counterpart because the implication is that you are too dumb to understand or figure things out unless he explains everything to you. EN Midgardsormr may regard us with some level of contempt, but at least he doesn't think we're stupid.

You're not smarter because you saw through foreshadowing in a video game.

I don't really like cutting out details of the JP script, as someone said before, it's like we're getting an "abridged" version instead of the actual canon storyline. If the story is that lacking that the English translators felt the need to manipulate it to this degree, then we have a serious problem here that needs to be taken up with the writer, but at no point should they be manipulating the story themselves.

Wow EN got the shaft on the translation despite what Fernelhawe tried to imply in his post. The translated Japanese text was much more enjoyable to read looking back at the scene.

I love how some people in this thread, use "learning English in High School" as a proper argument against the changing of context Midgarsormr has and the missing plot points. Perhaps may chance it was that same high school education that has most of us thinking the legendary dragon has a more malicious intent based off what clearly we read in game when in fact, his intent is anything but. Perhaps it was that same high school education that has us thinking the dragons are just vengeful on something that happened in the past but unbeknownst to us, there is something Ishgard is about to do again that the dragons are truly seeking war again.

I'm sure most of us here can read English quite well, and clearly see there are missing details that are being stated in other text versus the EN translation.

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Originally Posted by Atmora

The thing is there is no grey area, if you even intended highschool English you should have been taught to interpret text on this level, there's no real complexity or hidden meanings he directly states everything; if you're not a native speaker that's a valid excuse but at the same time why should an english localization be catered towards you?

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"attended", not "intended" by the way. Kinda ironic, you use a word that has a separate meaning from the correct one and are defending the EN translation, yet here we are in a thread discussing how words can mean separate things if not stated correctly.

"The Sons will pay for the sins of the fathers." Is clear reference to Old Testament biblical adage that mankind is inherently tainted by Original Sin and no child is born innocent. For it to be phrased implies in all Catholic culture that the previous sins carry on, and in no mention that these sins are repeated or in danger of.

It means that Ishgard is guilty by default, not that they are repeatedly committing the same crime. At all. There are other referential phrases that could apply to what you beleive is inferred.

Again, I see little to the contrary on my proposed theory that those claiming to 'figure out' Midgardsormors message did so through deduction of context, not inference of Midgardsormr's words alone, as line per line has already been disseminated and the results referenced in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

"Fight and struggle, if be thy will." and "Man hath ever coveted that which lieth beyond his grasp." does NOT sound like he is testing you, it sounds like he has already judged you. Nothing in the English version suggests he is testing you, everything points at him seeing you as an enemy and not having any doubt about it.

Important things are omitted from the English version. With some people's amount of "read between the lines", they could just as well defend the conclusion that Midgardsormr has a crush on the player.

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I like this plot twist. We will be Shiva 2.0