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Originally Posted by Dragon

Just keep showing your filthy arrogance. DDing in FFXI wasn't just about spike damage (parses proved as much), and DRG wasn't about only DPS either. But then again, no other job even came close to the healing efficiency a DRG could put out (6mp for 600~800hp at any moment in time, and 6mp for 1200~1400hp healed every couple minutes), and while still being able to outparse most DPS.

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With the Wyvern which died with one AOE, 20 minutes of no healing. You're now pointless in any party. Also BLU could out heal, so could WHM and so could DNC. You're completely clueless if you think anything different.

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Originally Posted by Jokerz

@ Ingolf

It really is arrogant to think jobs like PUP and DRG were horrible jobs when it's not true. A well geared and knowledgeable player was need to excel at those jobs, pup in particular. PUP was one of the jobs where you needed the correct attachments as well as someone who knew how to properly utilize them to be particularly proficient with it, that is the reason behind the stereotypes about the job. I've seen what exceptional PUP's can do. DRG's were amazing when in the hands of a player who knew what they were doing.

I will say I've seen crappy SAM's however who didn't do things such as focus on a X-hit build, I've seen WAR's do things such as woodville/joy-toy, BLM's that couldn't control their hate and RDM's that couldn't maintain a refresh cycle...

One issue I do agree with you on is that not all jobs were particularly balanced for endgame.

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Yup.

I've known plenty of weakling Sams and Wars (hell, there is no glory in having outparsed any bad player), but I knew plenty of Wars and Sams that geared themselves up. At the end of the day, every job had their awful players and their good players - it just so happened that some endgame linkshells would rather take in an awful player on a job they perceived as good than a good player that had good gear on a job perceived as bad.

well at least this thread is no longer about jumping

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

You keep saying arrogant.

It's the wrong word to use.

DRGs were widely considered bad DDs at 75 compared to SAM. If you thought otherwise you were deluded, sorry.

XI's balance was far improved after Abyssea.

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oh and dont forget that SE nerfed Drgs Penta Thrust when Drg was considered that most powerful DD in game.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

well at least this thread is no longer about jumping

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Indeed. This thread is now about potato's.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

With the Wyvern which died with one AOE, 20 minutes of no healing. You're now pointless in any party. Also BLU could out heal, so could WHM and so could DNC. You're completely clueless if you think anything different.

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Yes, without a wyvern, a Drg/Mage was crippled, but nowhere near as badly as you're trying to make it out. Not to mention the fact that it didn't simply happen to those that knew how to manage their wyvern well enough.

P.S. Like I said, I did everything I talked about using a Thalassocrat and hardly any endgame gear. It'd definitely be no problem for any of those I know to destroy any Sam or War.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

well at least this thread is no longer about jumping

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It's now about cheesecake. ^.^;;

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Yes, without a wyvern, a Drg/Mage was crippled, but nowhere near as badly as you're trying to make it out. Not to mention the fact that it didn't simply happen to those that knew how to manage their wyvern well enough.

P.S. Like I said, I did everything I talked about using a Thalassocrat and hardly any endgame gear. It'd definitely be no problem for any of those I know to destroy any Sam or War.

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ITT: Rose tinted glasses and buyers remorse.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

ITT: Rose tinted glasses and buyers remorse.

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Hardly.

Sure FFXI had its problems of balancing, but you just gotta blow shit way out of proportion.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Hardly.

Sure FFXI had its problems of balancing, but you just gotta blow shit way out of proportion.

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I don't think you had buyers remorse with FFXI. I think you had buyers remorse with DRG. (and probably DRK) I mained MNK, and I have no silly ideas that I could keep up with SAM's DD prowess. Calling yourself the most efficient healer in the game was enough to show that you were the kind of person who wouldn't gear correctly and eyeball all your damage.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I don't think you had buyers remorse with FFXI. I think you had buyers remorse with DRG. (and probably DRK) I mained MNK, and I have no silly ideas that I could keep up with SAM's DD prowess. Calling yourself the most efficient healer in the game was enough to show that you were the kind of person who wouldn't gear correctly and eyeball all your damage.

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Tell me what other job can heal for 600hp with 6 or less MP then. I'm waiting.

P.S. I kept my DRG geared, for the record. Like I said, I had a 6hit-Penta TP setup with 18% haste and 95% accuracy rating. I never eyeballed my damage, I proved it.

What even IS this thread anymore?

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Tell me what other job can heal for 600hp with 6 or less MP then. I'm waiting.

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MP wasn't an issue with the correct party setup. Efficiency only goes so far, consistency is far more necessary. If you were consistently using Dia to cure then you weren't outputting nearly enough damage to be worth a spot in a party. Instead have a SAM and rely on the RDM. I never invited DRGs to my meripos, it was worth waiting longer to invite a SAM who could actually kill birds fast enough to make enormous healing unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

What even IS this thread anymore?

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I swear, it's all cheesecake, baby.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

MP wasn't an issue with the correct party setup. Efficiency only goes so far, consistency is far more necessary. If you were consistently using Dia to cure then you weren't outputting nearly enough damage to be worth a spot in a party. Instead have a SAM and rely on the RDM. I never invited DRGs to my meripos, it was worth waiting longer to invite a SAM who could actually kill birds fast enough to make enormous healing unnecessary.

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You decided to say, "Calling yourself the most efficient healer in the game was enough to show that you were the kind of person who wouldn't gear correctly and eyeball all your damage." So again, who else could heal for 600hp with only 6mp?

P.S. 3x decently geared DRG/mages = 25k in a half hour merit party. No bard, no red mage, no sam, nothing but 3x DRG/mages. That's also only based on a half-hour because 3x Drg/Mages will have killed every single Greater Colibri on any one of the two meripo floors for Greater Colibri in that half-hr. With an infinite amount, 3x decent geared DRG/mages could do up to 60k~80k/hr while a group with Gungnirs could potentially triple that..

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Originally Posted by Dragon

You decided to say, "Calling yourself the most efficient healer in the game was enough to show that you were the kind of person who wouldn't gear correctly and eyeball all your damage." So again, who else could heal for 600hp with only 6mp?

P.S. 3x decently geared DRG/mages = 25k in a half hour merit party. No bard, no red mage, no sam, nothing but 3x DRG/mages.

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Well maybe I should be more clear: Efficiency is hardly important on short fights. If the greater Colibri were taking you a long time (which would make sense seeing as you're a DRG) then maybe your efficiency was important to you.

Also: POIDH on the 25k in half hour statement.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Well maybe I should be more clear: Efficiency is hardly important on short fights. If the greater Colibri were taking you a long time (which would make sense seeing as you're a DRG) then maybe your efficiency was important to you.

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I soloed a single Greater Colibri in 1~2 minutes.

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Also: POIDH on the 25k in half hour statement.

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If I were still playing FFXI, I'd already get you a screenshot. In fact, I'd just youtube it for the fun of it. I'm sure if you ask nicely on BG, Snk or Ligerzero could prove it to you for me though.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

What even IS this thread anymore?

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The "I hate jumping and want you not to have it!" crowd lost, so they started another thread to pick away at jumping as much as possible.

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Also: POIDH on the 25k in half hour statement.

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It was possible, but now you can get 250k / hr so why does it matter?

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Originally Posted by Dragon

I swear, it's all cheesecake, baby.

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I was told there was carrot cake and vanilla ice cream with rainbow sprinkles.
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To the new non-jump related point:
Seriously though, there's no point arguing about what job was pimpest in XI they all had ups and downs, I only played all 20 to 99 once or twice each across my accounts. I didn't gear them all equally because well that would have taken forever but I've seen mnks out perform sams who outperform wars who outperform wars who outperform mnks who out perform drks that outperform pups that outperform sams that cycle has no beginning and no end. It's part of why I leveled every job, not one was truly better than another in ALL situations. DRG pentaspam before the "fix" to multihit WS TP returns was just stupid. WARs at points with some skills SAMs had their turn. Again a list with no real start and no real end, remember when BLMs where the job you'd hold out for then a couple years later you couldn't get a xp party on BLM cause they had been nerfed. BST is one that mostly stayed consistent but then again it became useful in a pt and not too.

I loved my PUP ^^

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I never said that the game was balanced. SAM was completely overpowered, and it made playing other DDs pointless. A tomoe SAM outdid every DRG on piercing weak mobs, and the hagun was superior to every other DD in every other situation.

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This statement makes me wonder how much you actually play xi. Drakesbane will completely outdo penta on a well geared drg. It's also exclusive to the job, and was in place for a long time before the level cap increase past 75. I don't see how a sam can outdd a drg/sam that's using drakes on peircing weak mobs...

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Originally Posted by Dragon

I soloed a single Greater Colibri in 1~2 minutes.

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That's really bad. I knew a SAM who could take 45% off a Colibs HP off in one Penta.

Also, why weren't you using Drakesbane?

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Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon

This statement makes me wonder how much you actually play xi. Drakesbane will completely outdo penta on a well geared drg. It's also exclusive to the job, and was in place for a long time before the level cap increase past 75. I don't see how a sam can outdd a drg/sam that's using drakes on peircing weak mobs...

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Overwhelm. Weaponskill frequency. Sekkanokki.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The "I hate jumping and want you not to have it!" crowd lost, so they started another thread to pick away at jumping as much as possible.

It was possible, but now you can get 250k / hr so why does it matter?

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It could be done with an good party setup. 3 DRG/mage need not apply.

I bet there won't even be a jump button. I foresee jumping in XIV being similar to Link's auto-jump in 3D Zelda games. Those little ledges and overhangs that we hate getting trapped on now, forcing us to work our way down and around the long way will now be met with an auto-jump action and animation that will allow us to keep going and never be held-up by said ledges and overhangs ever again. That's how it will be done if the developers have any sense on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

I was told there was carrot cake and vanilla ice cream with rainbow sprinkles.
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To the new non-jump related point:
Seriously though, there's no point arguing about what job was pimpest in XI they all had ups and downs, I only played all 20 to 99 once or twice each across my accounts. I didn't gear them all equally because well that would have taken forever but I've seen mnks out perform sams who outperform wars who outperform wars who outperform mnks who out perform drks that outperform pups that outperform sams that cycle has no beginning and no end. It's part of why I leveled every job, not one was truly better than another in ALL situations. DRG pentaspam before the "fix" to multihit WS TP returns was just stupid. WARs at points with some skills SAMs had their turn. Again a list with no real start and no real end, remember when BLMs where the job you'd hold out for then a couple years later you couldn't get a xp party on BLM cause they had been nerfed. BST is one that mostly stayed consistent but then again it became useful in a pt and not too.

I loved my PUP ^^

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I personally have not been arguing what was pimpest.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

That's really bad. I knew a SAM who could take 45% off a Colibs HP off in one Penta.

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Get a Sam to continuously solo Greater Colibri, without outside help and without 2hr. I'm waiting

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Also, why weren't you using Drakesbane?

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You're wondering why I wasn't using Drakesbane? Again, I never even said I was the best DRG out there - I didn't even have that much endgame gear. There were a few more just on Fairy alone that were far better than me and then I met some on Diabolos and Remora that could take anything I did and wash the floor with me. I was nothing compared to them in ability.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I mained MNK, and I have no silly ideas that I could keep up with SAM's DD prowess.

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You must've been one sad MNK if you thought you couldn't beat a SAM.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

I personally have not been arguing what was pimpest.



Get a Sam to continuously solo Greater Colibri, without outside help and without 2hr. I'm waiting



You're wondering why I wasn't using Drakesbane? Again, I never even said I was the best DRG out there - I didn't even have that much endgame gear. There were a few more just on Fairy alone that were far better than me and then I met some on Diabolos and Remora that could take anything I did and wash the floor with me. I was nothing compared to them in ability.

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But you could just join or make a party, not being antisocial is a great start.

If you were on fairy you must have known Vegetto. If you want an example of a great SAM who could out DD any DRG, there it is.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

But you could just join or make a party, not being antisocial is a great start.

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And you could quit talking out of your ass.

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If you were on fairy you must have known Vegetto. If you want an example of a great SAM who could out DD any DRG, there it is.

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Oh yes, I knew Vegetto quite well. Some Sams out-damaged Drgs, and some Drgs out-damaged Sams. At the end of the day though, you're the one arrogantly claiming that Samurai was the end-all/be-all DD, and I'm sure Vegetto knows better.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

And you could quit talking out of your ass.



Oh yes, I knew Vegetto quite well. Some Sams out-damaged Drgs, and some Drgs out-damaged Sams. At the end of the day though, you're the one arrogantly claiming that Samurai was the end-all/be-all DD, and I'm sure Vegetto knows better.

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I'm guessing you never went to ffxiah.com or BG because Vegetto consistently said that, with math to back up the claims.

And actually not being antisocial was a great way to get parties. Not that you'd know, but yeah.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I'm guessing you never went to ffxiah.com or BG because Vegetto consistently said that, with math to back up the claims.

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You're right, I didn't bother with FFXIAH or BG much. I do know one thing though - Sam never was the end-all/be-all job.

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And actually not being antisocial was a great way to get parties. Not that you'd know, but yeah.

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Except I wasn't antisocial and enjoyed partying, but you wouldn't know to begin with. All you got are ASSumptions.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

You're right, I didn't bother with FFXIAH or BG much. I do know one thing though - Sam never was the end-all/be-all job.



Except I wasn't antisocial and enjoyed partying, but you wouldn't know to begin with. All you got are ASSumptions.

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Then you just prefer slower EXP per hour.

And yes, I can tell you're the kind of person who wouldn't look up optimal sets on forums.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Then you just prefer slower EXP per hour.

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Orly? Tell me how any other 3-person job combination could even come close to 25k in a half hour in FFXI (pre-abyssea ofc). That'd be the equivalent to 50k/hr if there were enough Greater Colibri, just an FYI.

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And yes, I can tell you're the kind of person who wouldn't look up optimal sets on forums.

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I used various sources to look up optimal sets, actually.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

I personally have not been arguing what was pimpest.

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Nope, just the carrotcake and icecream and sprinkles part was for you :D


The rest was just to point out to everyone that's arguing that it's all moot, in a decadeish of FFXI every job at one point or another was "The best" for something.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Orly? Tell me how any other 3-person job combination could even come close to 25k in a half hour in FFXI (pre-abyssea ofc). That'd be the equivalent to 50k/hr if there were enough Greater Colibri, just an FYI.



I used various sources to look up optimal sets, actually.

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A six man party would be more efficient. You're obsessed with efficiency so you should understand that.

Did those sources state that penta was the best WS for DRG too? Dem sources.

My pup was awesome it did 3.5k Blizz IV every 30 secs or was it 45 something like that.

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Originally Posted by Firon

My pup was awesome it did 3.5k Blizz IV every 30 secs or was it 45 something like that.

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At 75?

This thread isn't about PUP, one useless job at a time please.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Nope, just the carrotcake and icecream and sprinkles part was for you :D

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Oh thank you. :D *bows*

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The rest was just to point out to everyone that's arguing that it's all moot, in a decadeish of FFXI every job at one point or another was "The best" for something.

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It is sad how true that is, though thankfully it was normally the awful players that just jumped bandwagon. I personally had temporarily retired my DRG by the time I got it to 56 because I couldn't afford to gear it up for a while (which was when ToAU came out, and though seen as a bad idea considering the pink birds, I never regretted it because I knew I would have been leeching off other players which I never approved of) and took the time to further level my other jobs (and it wasn't until several months later when I got WHM to 75 that I had enough gear to properly level my DRG).

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Originally Posted by Gramul

What even IS this thread anymore?

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nerd duel to the death!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-__UvdDqs3A...yourweapon.jpg

This thread makes me glad I quit ffxi early on when I did.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

A six man party would be more efficient. You're obsessed with efficiency so you should understand that.

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Even with 2 brds, a 6-man party never got anywhere beyond 40k/hr exp. Sucker. Actually, if either floor was already full, you weren't going to get more than 30k/hr, which is why I prefer the half-hour anyways. Besides, when I did go full party, I went somewhere else for better EXP. Only an idiot took a full party to Nyzul.

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Did those sources state that penta was the best WS for DRG too? Dem sources.

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Aw, you're showing your jealousy again. For the Thalassocrat/Mezraq user, Penta Thrust was best in parties, Skewer was better for solo, and Wheeling Thrust was better for endgame (though arguable). Drakesbane was definitely better for all 3, if you could obtain it.