Discussing your 'unpopular' opinions

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

-SUPERMAXHUG-

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I can't answer any of your questions but the last one cause placing what I like abotu the game and picturing it getting the hate pvp normally does from what I see.. I'd be sad. I also can see how raiders feel from reading old threads on the subject and how they feel nothing matters. I kindof have a different opinion but I do see where you and they are coming from. Other than that I have nothing to bring to the convo so my bad :c - that and I really wanted to give you a big hug. :c -

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Oh NOW suddenly people are competitive and like to compete in this game? Cause I seem to recall many, MANY arguments in which I was told "this isn't a competitive game".

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Well, too bad. I never said there is no competition in this game, so using your past experiences with people that did is irrelevant to me. Going around and using their arguments (flawed at the core) doesn't make them any more correct than when they use them.

Yes, this game caters more to the casual players. No, it does not lack competitive content. There is no such thing as no competition when there is a PvP in the first place. Heck, there is no such thing when there is any sense of accomplishment and more than one person. If people can compete in single player games, saying that they can't in MMO with high-tier content (Savage, now Ultimate etc.) and PvP (directly fighting another player) is just ignorance at best. And if you know that, then I see no reason why you wouldn't hold on to that line of thinking even when ignorant people bombard you with the opposite.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Still, let's not play at idealism here: if you were offered a prize for reaching the top of a mountain, and your options were to climb or walk a trail, what would you do?

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Sure, I would take the trail. But your metaphor is wrong.

I'm not talking about a rough side or a trail. I'm talking about the first people having only the rough side of the mountain, and the other people having a flatland cause once the peak was gotten the mountain was leveled to the ground. I AM the one that wants the mountain to stay there and be as harsh to the thousandth challenger as to the first. Not you. You want the mountain to disappear once it's conquered.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

This is actually something PvPers held as a concern with a token system. If you're good enough to compete and win the prize that season, great! If you want to take your time and gather up tokens, then you can exchange them for either an old reward, or the new. But no double dipping.

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Eh...You get one token. You can exchange it for one item. You pick the new one?! You don't get the old one. You get the old one?! You can't get the new one. The only thing that it makes easier is real-life time-management. If I don't have the time due to being really busy in real life during the season there is added a reward I want, I can compete for it in the time I am not as busy. But I can't get more rewards than the amount of times I win. How is that in any way unfair?! How is that not rewarding to those that compete consistently and consistently get to the top?! They get twice-thrice as many rewards as I do over the same amount of time. How is that not a motivation enough?!

People knew that the primal mounts will be easier to get if they wait for a new expansion. That there would be unsync function that'd make running em trivial. And yet, they would still farm for those mounts when the content was the hardest, just to get them faster. And we're talking here about not only getting stuff faster, but also getting more of it altogether. And suddenly the "competitive" and "loyal" PvP player base would have no motivation to compete?! Sorry, but if that's the case, then it's not competitiveness but vanity that makes them compete in the first place. And sorry, but I have zero interest in satiating someones vanity needs.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

(...)if you busted your ass to hit top 100 in seasons 3 or 4 for it, then later SE just decides to make it a handout/achievement/token grind reward, how would you feel?

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What achievement?! What token grind?! What handout?! You want the hell hound, you have to be 1-100 in a Feast season. The same as in the past, the same now. That's what I was always saying. Where did you see in my post, any of them, me saying anything remotely resembling change in how they should be made available?!

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Now answer carefully, taking into account that SE decided to level cap Ultimate Coil "to preserve the difficulty of the encounter, as well as the rarity of the achievement rewarded for its completion." (And according to Yoshi P, it will stay that way throughout Stormblood). What would you say to those that cleared that? Sure, the reward isn't exclusive, but would you tell them you and everyone else deserve it just as much later at say, i400?

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That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about here. It is EXACTLY the argument I am making here. Ultimate is bragging rights and it will STAY that way, while not being EXCLUSIVE. Now, in a year, in ten years. To get that clear and that weapon, you will have to show the same amount of skill and communication as at any other time. But IF you do, you can get it. Regardless of when you manage to attempt it.

Once again, the Feast rewards still staying as Feast rewards is not the problem. I never, not once, not in any way, said that they should be made easier to obtain. I said they should be made POSSIBLE to obtain, by doing the same thing as was done originally. By winning X spot in the Feast.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

I'm not talking about a rough side or a trail. I'm talking about the first people having only the rough side of the mountain, and the other people having a flatland cause once the peak was gotten the mountain was leveled to the ground. I AM the one that wants the mountain to stay there and be as harsh to the thousandth challenger as to the first. Not you. You want the mountain to disappear once it's conquered.

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I don't know man. Should Clay Mathematics Institute hand out one million dollars for every guy sending them a correct proof of Poincare conjecture? I mean, the challenge (the statement of the conjecture itself, the mountain) is still there, it's not going anywhere as long as mankind exists. But bad Clay! They should have not made that reward exclusive, everyone should be able to tackle it even 100 years later and be rewarded for it!

Or am I using a bad example? :rolleyes:

The glamour dresser isn't that bad. In fact, it's an improvement from the old system. It's flawed by its limitations, but it's far from the "garbage" some people on this site called it. I used my alt to test it out and it went so well, I did the same for my main. You can keep a consistent look as you level up. Now I want to put more stuff in it; only things I know I will use. Making a set of outfits is fun, we just need more plates to do it with. Not to mention the people who are obsessed with organization will enjoy this.

The negative reception was partly why I used to avoid using it. It's not bad, give it a chance. It's already confirmed SE is working to improve it

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Originally Posted by AriaFairchild

Or am I using a bad example? :rolleyes:

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You are. First, the million dollars can be earned in multitude of other ways. The bragging rights is the only exclusive reward from being the one to send them the proof. And that's something I never denied. Second, look at the actual competitions in the real world. There are Summer Olympics every four years. The winners get what?! Medals (fair game as I said) and money. They do the same thing, but at a different time, and they can try getting the achievements as often as the see fit till they succeed (and beyond). And yet, they will get the medal and the money. Sure, the amount of money varies from Olympics to Olympics (and country to country), but that's due to various real-life reasons that do not exist inside the game environment.

Look at e-sports. Those are far more universal. You WILL get money, the same amount, no matter what country you come from, if you win. You will get money whether you win at the first ever tournament or the hundredth down the line. And you can buy with that money whatever else the tournament could be giving you, like keyboards or mouses or computers (if they do). So they are not exclusive. They are susceptible to inflation and the budget of the tournament...but there is no inflation in non-gil parts of the game, nor is there a budget, as these tournaments per see are "free". Making a new kind of reward requires manpower which costs, but the cost of making one set of clothes, one minion or one mount is in comparison insignificant.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Garleans and PvP. The two most controversial topics on the FFXIV forum? ;)

I like both.

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Theodric root of all evil confirmed :P

kikix, that was a mess of a post. Like, all pretense and pleasantries aside, that was a complete mess, from completely misunderstanding what I said, to putting words in my mouth, to actually agreeing with and backing up some of my own statements.

We don't see eye to eye on our perception of exclusivity. And yet we do. We agree the reward ought to remain proportionate to the effort, but disagree that past rewards should not be obtainable later, even if via the same proportionate efforts. I referenced a lot of related aspects of this same debate, from various other conversations in the PvP forums, which may have led to the confusion in seeking to nitpick my rebuttal, so that's on me (though if you're willing to dig, it's all still there in the PvP forums to read). Beyond that, I can simply live with fighting for, and failing to win a given reward for a season. I understand that you would not like that. But that is, for now, just how it works.

And ko_. . . thank you. Takes a bit of hardening to bear with and enjoy PvP in FFXIV, for all the good and bad of it, but a little empathy goes a long way. I appreciate it.

healers are nonsense in pvp and take away a lot of the fun, I don't even bother attacking them anymore, it's a complete waste of time.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

First, let me play around with your question a bit. I'm not trying to be snarky, but I AM trying to widen the view a bit:

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This completely. Like yes, this is the unpopular opinions thread. It's expected that we're going to disagree with each other. But for the PvP topic there was a ton of "anti-PvP" out right hate being spewed, and then people were angry at you for...getting angry at you and your community getting called terrible people? And in some posts it turned into guilt tripping. Like what reaction were folks actually expecting when that stuff started coming out?

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Originally Posted by rjspencer4

healers are nonsense in pvp and take away a lot of the fun, I don't even bother attacking them anymore, it's a complete waste of time.

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People who refuse to help kill healers in pvp are why I stopped doing pvp.

I think the version of Au Ra we got is much better then the concept art many people seem to like.

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Originally Posted by Rhais

I think the version of Au Ra we got is much better then the concept art many people seem to like.

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http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/3d/3d6f5...c893dad698.jpg

Current Au Ra are okay, I've made a few cute ones and had fun playing one. But I'm still hoping that if they add another race it isn't just generic cute and more unique like the Au Ra concept art was.

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Originally Posted by Rhais

I think the version of Au Ra we got is much better then the concept art many people seem to like.

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I AM AU RA...hear me scream (/furious) - and proud. :)

My opinions on the casual player base have not changed...the US/EU player base...is still more bad than it is good. My last two Rabanastre runs were so bad that even I finally started dying to things that I've never died from. But it's condescending to say a huge chunk of casuals are pretty terrible *activates Passage of Arms* but I stand my ground.

Reading through all of what I missed during weekend I guess I do have another unpopular opinion: I approve of exclusivity, and I like it when people are proudly showing off their exclusive (or difficult to obtain) items. Not that I'm part of any of that. I do raid savage content and ultimate content too(not that I cleared it though >.<.), but I tend to glamour my stuff anyways. Point being, I don't mind exclusive items being only accessible for a certain amount of time, and only to a couple of players(housing excluded).

I'll be trying out PvP soon myself, because of glamours I want, even though I despise it - not in this game, but in general. I don't like competitive gameplay because I don't like losing to strangers. There. I said it! And I believe this is one of the main reasons others avoid it too.

Anyway, I'm ok with exclusive items, because I don't feel the necesity to have access to everything in this game. For collectors it is the worst thing in the universe, and for others it's the exact opposite. There is not going to be a compromise, seeing how both arguments for and against them are mutually.... ex...clusive(sorry for that^^).

While I haven't reached level 70 on my Dark Knight yet I find the use of Hard Slash, Spinning Slash and Power Slash to be quite useless. I've easily held aggro by just relying on my Unmend and Unleash skills alone with the various abilities to replenish my MP. If HS, SS and PS continue to remain useless to me once I hit level 70 I think it'd actually be a good idea to either rework these three into something more useful or just get rid of them and make Dark Knight's spells become its main way of retaining aggro. Honestly, I actually like the idea of being able to keep enemies focused on me by using Dark Knight's spells while using its physical skills for HP/MP siphoning and debuffing. It would at least give Dark Knight some well needed identity and seperation from the other two tank classes.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

People who refuse to help kill healers in pvp are why I stopped doing pvp.

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It's really weird to me, since, as a healer who kinda like to PVP, we are far from invincible with high mp costs and our CD's, but team coordination is so bad most of the time, and we win 1v1.

I like the moveset changes to PVP.

BUT

The unchecked botting has utterly ruined PVP. Flames on Primal attracted all the botters, and after landing in a party with 6 silent bots, I jumped Grand Company's after being in Flames since 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Rhais

I think the version of Au Ra we got is much better then the concept art many people seem to like.

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This is nothing against you personally, but it's going to be against your opinion. And slightly against the opinion of the masses.

I absolutely am tired of all the female races being cutesy (I love me some roe fem btw, that's all we got). I wanted to be Au Ra because I wanted a strong very dragon like (or demon like as a lot of us were told they were) early on. What we got was a 13 year old Japanese schoolgirl with some scales.

There's enough anime of this to last the world a lifetime. I realize this is a Japanese game but can we pretty please let this shit go. Or if nothing else, let me pick the animations of the characters I have. I am Au Ra, let me have femroe animations and emotes. Pretty pretty please. With sugar on top.

I. Hate. Cutesy. OMGgigglegiggle. Characters. This is why I mostly just play guys.

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Originally Posted by Aamalthea

This is nothing against you personally, but it's going to be against your opinion. And slightly against the opinion of the masses.

I absolutely am tired of all the female races being cutesy (I love me some roe fem btw, that's all we got). I wanted to be Au Ra because I wanted a strong very dragon like (or demon like as a lot of us were told they were) early on. What we got was a 13 year old Japanese schoolgirl with some scales.

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I want this:

http://cdn4.dualshockers.com/wp-cont...55-670x377.jpg

I think Carbuncle and Paissa have too much attention, bring on the Dodo furniture.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

You have openly nasty comments like "I wish they'd stop wasting development resources on PvP,"

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Hi, that was me, I said that (waves). I feel like I should clarify a bit, since although I knew the comment would ruffle some feathers, it was not intended to come across as nasty. It was my understanding that the thread was for unpopular opinions, and everything expressed in it was just that: opinion. No one should feel like they're less for enjoying what they like, and I don't think anyone that enjoys the PvP in this game should feel marginalized because they do.

What I meant and mean by a waste of development resources is that the section of the game doesn't live up to what I think it could be. To me it feels like the system is in a constant struggle to fit what makes competing against another human fun into a combat system that does not support those things on a fundamental level. The server delay and long GCD serve scripted battles well, but feel very clunky against a human opponent that is acting on the fly in real time. When I PvP in FFXIV, it feels like everyone is playing ankle-deep in mud and with one hand behind their back.

This is why it bugs me when I see new PvP content that doesn't change the underlying system. Not because I don't believe PvP doesn't belong in a Final Fantasy game, but because I want to enjoy it too. When X is the reason I don't PvP, and they add a whole bunch of Y, it feels like either they don't understand the issue, don't care, or the issue doesn't bug other people as much as it does me.

However, what I suspect the truth is is that they probably do understand, do care, and realize it's an issue for some people. They just don't have the power to change it without spending massive amounts of time and money. It's how the combat system was designed, how the servers work, and they have to work with what they have.

And so, for me, it is a failed endeavor. For me, it would have been better if they used that time to make things that fit well with the system. I'm not saying my opinion and the truth are the same thing. I'm fully aware content patches that feel like a slap in the face to me are Christmas morning to others. Good, it's their game too. They shouldn't feel bad for enjoying something just because someone else doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Aamalthea

I. Hate. Cutesy. OMGgigglegiggle. Characters. This is why I mostly just play guys.

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Funny enough, that voting then people seemed to like to post where people gave their opinions, Yoshi said he noticed the playerbase seems to like more cutesy characters. This was on the race voting where Veira won, meaning Veira will come cutesy and not tough like people want it.

So sorry, but people voted. I do wish they let you have a tough face for Au Ra females at least.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

So sorry, but people voted. I do wish they let you have a tough face for Au Ra females at least.

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Was it this vote...?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/46936

If so: Mixed heritage and more clans where?!

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Originally Posted by Shihen

Hi, that was me, I said that (waves).

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I'm glad you took the time to elaborate, but it's a statement I've seen many times over the years, in several different contexts. You raise some very good points though.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Was it this vote...?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/46936

If so: Mixed heritage and more clans where?!

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Yep. I can't quote from it, but I can at least copy paste.

"the result seems to tell us that players are prioritizing cuteness, something which I noted with great interest."

Also, PS5 Maybe.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

While I haven't reached level 70 on my Dark Knight yet I find the use of Hard Slash, Spinning Slash and Power Slash to be quite useless. I've easily held aggro by just relying on my Unmend and Unleash skills alone with the various abilities to replenish my MP. If HS, SS and PS continue to remain useless to me once I hit level 70 I think it'd actually be a good idea to either rework these three into something more useful or just get rid of them and make Dark Knight's spells become its main way of retaining aggro. Honestly, I actually like the idea of being able to keep enemies focused on me by using Dark Knight's spells while using its physical skills for HP/MP siphoning and debuffing. It would at least give Dark Knight some well needed identity and seperation from the other two tank classes.

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Powerslash combo is for establishing aggro in single target boss situations. If you try to hold aggro against good dpses with only unmend and unleash, you're not gonna have a good time, not to mention it's crap for your own dps.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Yep. I can't quote from it, but I can at least copy paste.

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Truth be told, I find it awkward how he concludes that from any of the poll results, because none of the questions is remotely related to it.

But then again, he also concluded that the reason more people played PvP after 3.5 was the chat restriction, rather than Garo. There might be confirmation bias at work.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Truth be told, I find it awkward how he concludes that from any of the poll results, because none of the questions is remotely related to it.

But then again, he also concluded that the reason more people played PvP after 3.5 was the chat restriction, rather than Garo. There might be confirmation bias at work.

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I assumed the Garo was to get more players to try PVP.

At least, if the easy EXP and tomes didn't (I mean, that's more or less why it's always Shatter and why botting exploded. The fastest, least amount of effort way to level.)

I actually like the "butt/side capes." Combining them with longskirts or kilts can give you a ton of creative ideas.

https://i.imgur.com/75ni1XE.png

Maybe this is just me, but it feels like most of the people who complained about them mained DoW. My main uses the caster and healer jobs, so a coats and robes has been a favorite to use. Things like Chivaric Battledress of Aiming, I can see some people disliking it, but you can certainly make it work

I actually miss the charge bars on BRD and MCH. Made things more interesting and made sense as an 'aiming' mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

I assumed the Garo was to get more players to try PVP.

At least, if the easy EXP and tomes didn't (I mean, that's more or less why it's always Shatter and why botting exploded. The fastest, least amount of effort way to level.)

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Actually, if memory serves, it was the Garo creator's wishes that the gear/rewards initially be made available through PvP, particularly the mounts.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Actually, if memory serves, it was the Garo creator's wishes that the gear/rewards initially be made available through PvP, particularly the mounts.

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Ah, okay then. He's one of us, it seems, XD

The recent meta discussions make me put even less stock in that madness than ever. SAM's are getting pushed from raid groups for lacking party utility despite great DPS, yet, AST is often last choice for piddly DPS, despite the job's key mechanic being about boosting party DPS. /think

So, we can't have specialists?

I doubt they are being pushed.

Remember the forum outcry about diadem weapons? Remember how impossible it was to actually get one? The forum listens to theorycrafters who discuss ideal dps in a raid setting and then that gets a life of its own, despite the fact you rarely see it in game. Part of the reason parsing culture tends to be bad is people take the numbers as gospel, because numbers have their own authority no matter how many qualifiers you put in front of them.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Funny enough, that voting then people seemed to like to post where people gave their opinions, Yoshi said he noticed the playerbase seems to like more cutesy characters. This was on the race voting where Veira won, meaning Veira will come cutesy and not tough like people want it.

So sorry, but people voted. I do wish they let you have a tough face for Au Ra females at least.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/46936

Yes, people voted from a list of five choices that had nothing directly to do about "cuteness". And then Yoshida classically misconstrued this data into something it was never capable of pointing out; at best he simply collected hearsay and forum posts to that effect. The votes themselves were more than likely imbalanced, also, by the mere fact that traditional FF race examples were applied to some choices and not to others, trading out concepts for truly new races to simply a vote on preexisting races' popularity. Had the "Viera" choice remained simply "Mammalian demi-beastmen" with only general examples, as per the other races, it would not likely have scored so high.

And yet it still, contrary to popular belief, wasn't the first choice among the Japanese voters in the survey: mixed races were.

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Originally Posted by Shihen

What I meant and mean by a waste of development resources is that the section of the game doesn't live up to what I think it could be. To me it feels like the system is in a constant struggle to fit what makes competing against another human fun into a combat system that does not support those things on a fundamental level. The server delay and long GCD serve scripted battles well, but feel very clunky against a human opponent that is acting on the fly in real time. When I PvP in FFXIV, it feels like everyone is playing ankle-deep in mud and with one hand behind their back.

This is why it bugs me when I see new PvP content that doesn't change the underlying system. Not because I don't believe PvP doesn't belong in a Final Fantasy game, but because I want to enjoy it too. When X is the reason I don't PvP, and they add a whole bunch of Y, it feels like either they don't understand the issue, don't care, or the issue doesn't bug other people as much as it does me.

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And just like that I'm in complete agreement. And it's certainly not something unique to prompt those negative reactions. In the face of some missing, lackluster, or problematic area of a current content type, we do awfully often seem to instead get something newly seemingly unfinished and therefore lackluster or problematic. While we do need the promise of something new as we go alone, this can be discouraging.

But this really doubles up in PvP. Some people, for the simple reason that it was added late, seem to see PvP as a reason for sluggish improvements to the "core" game (even if PvP was in fact roadmapped from the start of ARR). Others simply see it as too big a deal to have invested seemingly so little in it originally, and lacking in fundamentals like lag management, opportunities for coordination (though this was hardly such an issue prior to Stormblood), or visible impacts of those player interactions one would likely expect from -- and help to sell the gameplay of -- fantasy class-based PvP.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

While I haven't reached level 70 on my Dark Knight yet I find the use of Hard Slash, Spinning Slash and Power Slash to be quite useless. I've easily held aggro by just relying on my Unmend and Unleash skills alone with the various abilities to replenish my MP. If HS, SS and PS continue to remain useless to me once I hit level 70 I think it'd actually be a good idea to either rework these three into something more useful or just get rid of them and make Dark Knight's spells become its main way of retaining aggro. Honestly, I actually like the idea of being able to keep enemies focused on me by using Dark Knight's spells while using its physical skills for HP/MP siphoning and debuffing. It would at least give Dark Knight some well needed identity and seperation from the other two tank classes.

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Power Slash is intended for single targets. You want to do a Dark Arts Power Slash combo to build a threat lead then drop Grit. If you attempt that with only Unmend, good DPS and healers will rip off you in an instant.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Power Slash is intended for single targets. You want to do a Dark Arts Power Slash combo to build a threat lead then drop Grit. If you attempt that with only Unmend, good DPS and healers will rip off you in an instant.

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This. And even if the 80% enmity suppression of the hugely buffed Diversion were enough for the opening burst, you don't want to ever be forced back into Grit unless absolutely necessary and the only time that Power Slash, let alone Dark Arts Power Slash, is going to pay off is if it's stacking multiplicatively with Grit's enmity bonus. Better to once and done than have to weave additional Power Slashes in later.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

SE told us before the sandles are because of how jacked up the run cycles look without a heel on some races. We'll likely never see taller heels for the same reason.

I agree on Viera height, tho I wouldn't be apposed to a max height Viera being an absolute tower. (Not many players max Roe or Elezan ladies, but it's pretty intense to see them) The Ban'gaa we saw were direct rips of FFXII designs, so I really don't know where they'll go with Viera if/when we see them, playable or not.

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Yay finally a reason to post in this thread. Though I assume people moved on from this convo, I wanted to bring it up again since I was looking for a thread on this topic.

I was just looking at my characters feet, and got annoyed because I noticed one of the SB sandal models (Gaganaskin sandals of healing) is super flat for femroe (I don't know about other races) then took a look at the default sandals and had to facepalm. At the very least make the sandals less imposing or match skin color cause they're a nightmare on dark skinned characters.

I always imagined Viera to be the same height as elezen. I'm ok with them being super tall, I just hope not as tall as Femroe. Cause... That's our thing >>; All of my Femroe are max height.

Get this though, there are Femroe NPC that are a head taller than a max height player character femroe. I'd love to be able to get even a little bit more height.

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Originally Posted by REPROBEAN_CHILD

I actually like the "butt/side capes." Combining them with longskirts or kilts can give you a ton of creative ideas.

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I've no problem with butt/side capes, except that they suffer from the same cloth physics issue as any other dress or robe, whereby one would seem to be wearing a half-a-man-sized steel bell beneath them.

Buttwings, on the other hand, as per Final Coil and Creator gear... I despise them.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I actually miss the charge bars on BRD and MCH. Made things more interesting and made sense as an 'aiming' mechanic.

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Same, to an extent. I liked playing chicken with AoEs, though it also made me wish my character elevation was actually being affected when using jump skills like Empyreal Arrow, so that it might actually be useful for said games of AoE-chicken.

That's assuming, of course, that AoEs would at that point actually have hitboxes as drawn, as well, allowing between those two changes for true three-demension combat, even if without flight, rather than all things having essentially infinite height and height-checks being handled solely by zonal debuffs (as in Alexander 6 and 8).