New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

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Originally Posted by Gralna

Guessing then that you've never played EQ, AC, DAoC, FFXI, or even worse, any of the many Korean MMO's that require pure grinding to get anything accomplished.

The first few MMO's I listed all required you to lvl up primarly through just sitting at a camp of mobs, and killing them as they respawned, you'd be lucky to get 10% of the xp you needed to lvl up from doing all the quests at your level available to you. They also took a LONG time to lvl up, with most people taking 8-12 months to reach max lvl for the first time.

Edit: Lvling in this game is so trivial it's hardly worth mentioning it as an accomplishment.

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I played both EQ and FFXI and I stand by my point, the leveling experience in this game outside of the first run when you can do it via storyline is so bad it hurts my head even thinking about it, even compared to those games. That has nothing to do with it being an accomplishment or not to get to max in XIV. I never said getting a job to max level in this game was an accomplishment because it isn't. The biggest difference is, in those games it was made to be an accomplishment and it also required the journey to actually have meaning and be a part of the experience.

It's already confirmed that Lv 51 gear will not be higher than iLv 135. It's a safe bet that those who have collected a full set of iLv 130 gear won't be starting on the same page as those wearing only iLv 110 or even iLv 100.

I'm not talking about older levels becoming relatively easier. I'm talking about Square Enix adjusting the 2.1~2.55 main story content accordingly to account for new players who will most likely not even do the Hard Mode primals, only progressing through the story trials. Remember how all those main story quests for 2.1~2.55 only give gil and sometimes materia? Those would be great places to hand out stuff like the iLv 90 AF tokens and soldiery accessories.

I'm not saying this will be the way they do it.

They could also keep all the quest rewards the same, but tune the difficulties of all those quest trials down for iLv50/55 or so. Or they could even tune the main story quests to start early, to fill the often cited "void" of Lv 44~49. Such that by Lv 45 with your AF you're already starting on 2.1~2.2 content and by Lv 49 you're doing 2.55 content.

There's a lot of ways to do it. We already know the roulette contents are getting reorganized. Nothing says that the main story progression can't be reorganized as well.

So rather than debating the new job gating based on conjectures like we have been doing, let's just ask Square Enix, "will new players get stuck at Lv 50 trying to raise their gear iLv to do the Steps of Faith?"

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Originally Posted by Zfz

They could also keep all the quest rewards the same, but tune the difficulties of all those quest trials down.

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They really need to take the quests from patch 2.1-2.55 and reduce them to 10% of what they are now. 90% of all the quests are completely filler.

Some of the quests are ridiculous. More recent one was Yda needing a flower from Rowena and she was too scared to get it herself.
Really...? We could of NOT done that, she summoned the courage to get it on her own and we went straight from A to B and not
A to C, back to A then finally go to B only for a short CS to go back to A.
Screw being a WoL. Lemme join up with Moogle Mail guy. May as well, all we're doing is fetching junk for others. XDDD

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Some of the quests are ridiculous. More recent one was Yda needing a flower from Rowena and she was too scared to get it herself.
Really...? We could of NOT done that, she summoned the courage to get it on her own and we went straight from A to B and not
A to C, back to A then finally go to B only for a short CS to go back to A.
Screw being a WoL. Lemme join up with Moogle Mail guy. May as well, all we're doing is fetching junk for others. XDDD

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Or the quest where we had to recruit people going around every city. Or the quest where we needed to give uniforms to new people. Or the quests where we needed to go kill things all around to make a vial of perfume for someone we never will meet again.

Are we playing Final Fantasy, or Filler Fantasy?

Only 1 out of 15 quests actually promote and forward the story, that is ridiculous.

Don't forget about the part where we had to collect tea leafs(?) or something.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Some of the quests are ridiculous. More recent one was Yda needing a flower from Rowena and she was too scared to get it herself.
Really...? We could of NOT done that, she summoned the courage to get it on her own and we went straight from A to B and not
A to C, back to A then finally go to B only for a short CS to go back to A.
Screw being a WoL. Lemme join up with Moogle Mail guy. May as well, all we're doing is fetching junk for others. XDDD

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I actually laughed a lot at that quest because when you went there they pointed out the exact thing you are complaining about. I bet half the people didnt even read the quests but instead clicked through and chose to complain.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

It's only 52 pages because people keep bumping it to further a pointless debate..

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And because people are silly and stick to ten responses per page. >_>

Edit to avoid double-post:

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

. . .then after 50 you need to complete about 150-180 more quests, even more then you had to do to level 50. Then after that you have to complete the level 50-60 quests all whilst playing with pugs and new players since nobody really needs to do most of that content anymore."

Friend: ".... Enjoy your game man."

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So, you're going to lie to your friend about the game, and then be surprised when he isn't interested? And not offer to help him level at all? And yes, the parts I just quoted are a blatant lie.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

So, you're going to lie to your friend about the game, and then be surprised when he isn't interested? And not offer to help him level at all? And yes, the parts I just quoted are a blatant lie.

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That's a nitpick I wanted to get at myself. When you try to advertise XIV, try not to actually downplay it. There's a difference between being told everything you have to do and experiencing everything you have to do. The latter is more tolerable because you're already in the middle of it. You might as well finish it. The former just puts off people and they think "Too much. No thanks."

Another issue I am seeing is a lot of people are asking why Developers didn't put the new jobs in areas outside of Ishgard? Three potential reasons off the top of my head. Two of which kind of relate to each other:

1. To explore Heavensward Content - You are introduced new jobs, but why keep them within the realm of the original game areas? Wouldn't it be more enjoyable to complete these quests within the new areas of Ishgard?

2. Lore Reasons - Perhaps these jobs are not known to areas outside of Ishgard for one reason or another. Someone mentioned that the developers write the lore, which is certainly true. For the most part, without things contradicting each other, things have played out fairly well.

3. To have people subscribed long enough to actually get to Ishgard - People say new players will be put off by this decision. Is this based on fact or your personal opinion? The typical player will probably buy the game and play the game for as long as they can take before putting it off. If Ishgard is their goal, the new jobs, etc. then they will stayed subscribed until they reach that goal. On the other spectrum, there are others that will feel like it takes too much time to get to Ishgard. Then fine, that's on them, but they're just a group of players just like everyone else. If they unsubscribe, then sure, that sucks, but the game will move on. They can't be bothered to lose a few subscriptions when they have the rest of the player base to consider. I mean, hey, few people unsubscribed because PVP in this game wasn't the greatest in the world. No one is throwing a hissy fit over that.

Again, I personally do not see the issue. It's common practice. You want to pick up a MMO that's been out a while? Guess what? You have to start catching up on a lot of content. Hope you're prepared for the long run(which isn't even that long).

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Don't forget about the part where we had to collect tea leafs(?) or something.

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What about the time we had to fill a bucket of water at Buscarron's Druthers and it took seven clicks to do it?

Find the Bucket
Pick the Bucket
Find the River
Put the Bucket
Fill the Bucket
Pick the Bucket
Dump the Bucket

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I actually laughed a lot at that quest because when you went there they pointed out the exact thing you are complaining about. I bet half the people didnt even read the quests but instead clicked through and chose to complain.

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If you read it, Rowena even states they got you running ragged. So I did read it.
Not only Rowena, even past NPC's realize they got you to do a lot of fetch a quest.
You also get praised non-stop by Scion's who usually sit on the sidelines.
I don't give a rats behind about what they say to me anymore lmao.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

If we're still speaking of the fetch quest from Yda to go to Rowena this last patch, I actually think that's one of the more reasonable ones. I mean, Yda's just lost a close friend, and knows that going to Rowena is going to bring up hassle she doesn't want to deal with, basically compounding how bad she's feeling. . .As a character development point, I can totally see it.

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That's true. Didn't think about that.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

If you read it, Rowena even states they got you running ragged. So I did read it.
Not only Rowena, even past NPC's realize they got you to do a lot of fetch a quest.

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If we're still speaking of the fetch quest from Yda to go to Rowena this last patch, I actually think that's one of the more reasonable ones. I mean, Yda's just lost a close friend, and knows that going to Rowena is going to bring up hassle she doesn't want to deal with, basically compounding how bad she's feeling. . .As a character development point, I can totally see it.

I pretty much just skip most of the story now until I see interesting characters. My favorite character so far is the Elf dude, I wish male elves look that cool/BA.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

What about the time we had to fill a bucket of water at Buscarron's Druthers and it took seven clicks to do it?

Find the Bucket
Pick the Bucket
Find the River
Put the Bucket
Fill the Bucket
Pick the Bucket
Dump the Bucket

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But.. we would lose so much if we culled that from the story! *sarcasm*

You guys might think that this stuff is "heroic" and earns you "respect" however, I don't think doing everything for everyone and their mom earns you much of anything. It would be more respectful to speak up for yourself and ask people not to waste your time on such stupid tasks. You have far better things you can be doing.

I mean, what about all the people you could of been saving instead, your off fetching something for someone else. I bet half of the bad things that have happened wouldn't of happened if you weren't busy and another scion actually did something, besides come in at the very end and take all the credit.

I just hope they're also gated by the usual "have x similar/crossclass ability" job @ 15 to unlock as well. I haven't seen that said.

Just cause a dps can get carried thru steps of faith doesn't mean they can pick up DRK with no prior tank experience. Heh, even needing pld and/or war 15 doesn't mean they'll have any tanking experience.

teh fetch quest are not heroic and that normal, they often are used as a way to show you that you are a simple adventurer...even as warrior of light you are still an adventurer doing the most ungratefull jobs for get paid. other point it add deepth to the world, like the quest in the 2.1 with the hide and seek with the doman kids, it was adding a part of living.... they are quest where we kill nothing. because if you take out this quest, we will only have quest where we are the biggest mass murderer of eorzea!

you don't like this quest that your right, but i did enjoy the story behind and even if i have found some of this quest not very fluid and often a bit heavy (mostly because the game is not optimized on pc for this, we need a fast action button, like most mmorpg have now. we get near a point we can interact, we press a button and our character interact directly instead to click) the ywas bringing a lot of information about the world.

Personally, I don't think the loads of "filler" or "fetch" type quests in the main story are necessarily a bad thing. I think they are good for new characters because:

1. They give you XP to help level you up.
2. They lead you to level appropriate areas where you can find other stuff to do to level up.

Now, trying to run them all back to back I find them a bit annoying, but I realize that this is not the normal way it is done. It is the duty finder quests that get me, simply because they are a road block to my story progress that can only be overcome when I have both the (uninterrupted) time and inclination to queue up, wait, and do a group instance. Oh, and probably read a guide first, like a good newbie. :p

Regardless, I see no problem with the MSQ being required for 3.0 story content, though unless they plan to tweak it to ease progression (solo story dungeons, better gear rewards at 50, etc), I really don't get why they would gate the new jobs behind it. :confused:

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

you don't like this quest that your right, but i did enjoy the story behind and even if i have found some of this quest not very fluid and often a bit heavy (mostly because the game is not optimized on pc for this, we need a fast action button, like most mmorpg have now. we get near a point we can interact, we press a button and our character interact directly instead to click) the ywas bringing a lot of information about the world.

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Then.. it should be removed from the base storyline =) Just make them optional quests that appear as you do the base story.

That way paperboys like you can enjoy it. Sorry - i've always been more of an Anti-Hero.

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Originally Posted by Fleur

1. They give you XP to help level you up.
2. They lead you to level appropriate areas where you can find other stuff to do to level up.

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What about all the filler in the level 50 quests which give you pretty much nothing?

Dude, no. Nothing needs to be culled from the story. Yeah, some of the quests were pretty lame and lol-worthy, but most of them had some point to them, and the all aided progression. I will give to you that the level 50 quests sometimes felt pointless since you didn't get XP, but that's about as much as I'll give you.

Besides, you clearly don't give a crap about story. You referenced an apparently story character in the game as "the Elf dude," which is telling.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Dude, no. Nothing needs to be culled from the story. Yeah, some of the quests were pretty lame and lol-worthy, but most of them had some point to them, and the all aided progression. I will give to you that the level 50 quests sometimes felt pointless since you didn't get XP, but that's about as much as I'll give you.

Besides, you clearly don't give a crap about story. You referenced an apparently story character in the game as "the Elf dude," which is telling.

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Progression is improving upon your character, so I would say that only 1% actually do that. Your right, I don't. When I am given 90% boring filler which I can already tell whats happening (since I watch/read so much.) it becomes hogwarsh. Although I did like some parts of the story, most of it was "Give, Fetch, Look! Go here! Give this to this person!"

I don't see how giving uniforms to people helps me in any way. Sure it may increase my reputation... to the people I will probably never see or remember again.

I don't see how that is a good story, I'm glad your easily entertained!

Some people are playing this MMO purely for the gameplay :o
I myself am shifting that way, as I lost interest in the storyline starting at 2.4. More so when 2.5 came around (mostly shook my head at certain scenes because... ugh, really SE?)

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Some people are playing this MMO purely for the gameplay :o
I myself am shifting that way, as I lost interest in the storyline starting at 2.4. More so when 2.5 came around (mostly shook my head at certain scenes because... ugh, really SE?)

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This is an RPG. If you came to play with "no" story, you chose the wrong game, and I am entirely certain that SE would agree.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Progression is improving upon your character, so I would say that only 1% actually do that. Your right, I don't. When I am given 90% boring filler which I can already tell whats happening (since I watch/read so much.) it becomes hogwarsh. Although I did like some parts of the story, most of it was "Give, Fetch, Look! Go here! Give this to this person!"

I don't see how giving uniforms to people helps me in any way. Sure it may increase my reputation... to the people I will probably never see or remember again.

I don't see how that is a good story, I'm glad your easily entertained!

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I'm pretty sure he meant progression as in progressing the story. Which the quests do.

Both meanings are true. Also, those level 50 filler quests that don't even give exp because you're max level? Guess what they'll give after the level cap increases. ^_^ Boom, progression in both forms!

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

This is an RPG. If you came to play with "no" story, you chose the wrong game, and I am entirely certain that SE would agree.

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Yes, but it's not a single player RPG. It's an MMO we're paying a monthly subscription for. Gameplay should always > Plot (especially as plot is something you do once and then you're done with it. This is especially including the solo instances).
FFXI got away with being plot heavy because the overworld was so gosh darn dangerous, and often times you were spending your time grinding for exp, or fighting tough mobs just to get to your destination (or sneaking by them).

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

This is an RPG. If you came to play with "no" story, you chose the wrong game, and I am entirely certain that SE would agree.

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I'm sure a buttload of people do not play this game for the story friend lol.
Personal views on how boring this story is aside, people wanna raid and get geared, so on.
And have a house that I can never have...ever...*cough*.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

This is an RPG. If you came to play with "no" story, you chose the wrong game, and I am entirely certain that SE would agree.

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Correction: this is an "MMO"RPG, Massively Multiplayer Online, and story should never be the main focus of these kind of games: the gameplay should be. My reasoning? A player's interest must always be refreshed and picked up after a long time of gaming: if a player reaches level 50 and doesn't find the game fun because of "reasons", the story will not save it no matter how good it is. But if the game is good, he'll stick around more and more which translates for more money from the subscription, while the story is long over.

Sure, this is how SE has done so far, but I personally don't think it's a good one either: I might be wrong, but this is just my opinion about it.

However, I'm pretty sure a lot of people love the story and I think it would've been nicer if it was optional. Why? Because I always thought that when we are given the choice of following a story or not, it's actually far more rewarding to have followed until the end: our interested was rewarded with a plot that got our attention and it ended in a way that gave us satisfaction (which means no cliffhangers).

In a sense, everything is far more enjoyable if it's not forced down your throat.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

In a sense, everything is far more enjoyable if it's not forced down your throat.

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Funny, doesn't seem forced at all After all, you can skip practically every cs and side quest to still get to Ishgard content... A point which has been repeatedly made in this topic. A point made to people who happen to not accurately represent the same people who would start from scratch and go through the content. Which makes the OP argument questionable to say the least.

In a sense, earning access is the polar opposite of instant gratification. And thank the Twelve that SE prefers that mode.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Yes, but it's not a single player RPG. It's an MMO we're paying a monthly subscription for. Gameplay should always > Plot (especially as plot is something you do once and then you're done with it. This is especially including the solo instances).
FFXI got away with being plot heavy because the overworld was so gosh darn dangerous, and often times you were spending your time grinding for exp, or fighting tough mobs just to get to your destination (or sneaking by them).

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Oh you must be one of those people that wants everyone to skip all the cutscenes.

if you want a game without story where gameplay > plot, FF14 is not for you, it's blunt but that it! and it will be always the case!

the fact that you don't like story and plot is your right, but this game have the story as main point, everything else is deeply tie to it. everything we get is tie to the lore and the plot. you can argue all days, it will not change this simple point.

i always fail to understand how this pityfull escuse that gameplay>plot can be used. withour the plot, the game is a simple bashing game. even game like diablo have a story and everything you meet is tie to that story.... MMORPG is a game that allows you to enjoy RPG with a looot of people. far before wow, most of mmorpg was populated by played that was playing the game....for RP more than shinies or first kill or any competition outside the one create by Role play.

but now player seems to think that the shinies, the first kill....the competition to see who can braggs the more is more important. if that was the case, why make a story? why not make a character that must murder tons of monster because... it's gameplay and fun!

*sighs* you really need to understand how works FF14, is not World of Warcraft, is not Aion, is not any other mmorpg before. it's unique on many point, indeed it's pretty classical as game, but they have done a lot of unique thing. like the fact to keep a pace of add of content that was never seen before, the fact to bring more story that become better and better as the time pass or simply the fact that they have take a game that did fail soo badly and did turn it into a succes.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Correction: this is an "MMO"RPG, Massively Multiplayer Online, and story should never be the main focus of these kind of games: the gameplay should be.

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You are entitled to your opinion. If this is how you feel, go play an "american" MMO like Wildstar. It has a pretty overworld, too. This game is a giant THANK YOU to those of us who have loved the Final Fantasy series since the first famicom/NES game. This series has always been driven by storylines first. If you choose to buy and play FFXIV, you have no right to ask them to bypass their vision of the game for your personal tastes in video games.

If anything, I would like 10 more hours of story and I refuse to skip a single cutscene or line of text because you believe it isn't as important as gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Yes, but it's not a single player RPG. It's an MMO we're paying a monthly subscription for. Gameplay should always > Plot (especially as plot is something you do once and then you're done with it. This is especially including the solo instances).
FFXI got away with being plot heavy because the overworld was so gosh darn dangerous, and often times you were spending your time grinding for exp, or fighting tough mobs just to get to your destination (or sneaking by them).

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I also dislike the way the new jobs are being handled, however I cannot agree with this. Your talking about FF a series with over twenty years of content. If the gameplay was paramount then the development team would not have bothered ending 1.0 the way they did. FF is and always have been about the story first and foremost in my opinion.

You'd be wrong, Lexia. People are free to watch cutscenes if they want. My point is that not everyone is playing this game just for the story. There are people playing this game either just for the gameplay, or to roleplay.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

I also dislike the way the new jobs are being handled, however I cannot agree with this. Your talking about FF a series with over twenty years of content. If the gameplay was paramount then the development team would not have bothered ending 1.0 the way they did. FF is and always have been about the story first and foremost in my opinion.

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see it like this, in FF series, where you have jobs, you don't get all the jobs at the start as you advance in the story you can unlock new jobs, that the same point.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

You'd be wrong, Lexia. People are free to watch cutscenes if they want. My point is that not everyone is playing this game just for the story. There are people playing this game either just for the gameplay, or to roleplay.

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the people playing for the roleplay will pay a looot of attention to the story.... because without the world is hard to create decent role play. with the story bringing more and more we need this sort of information. or the world will be filled with tons of arthas and co!

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I'm still at a loss as to why people think gating CLASSES behind a story that will take over a month (most likely) to complete is a good thing.

Gate anything else, you can even make the new classes take level 30 to unlock, that's FINE, but having to do the majority of the game just to start playing a machinist/astrologian/dark knight? Ridiculous.

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Not that ridiculous if the classes are intended for more advanced players, and not newcomers.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Funny, doesn't seem forced at all After all, you can skip practically every cs and side quest

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Yes, you can skip the cs and sidequests, but not the main quest. That's what I was referring to, and that's pretty much what a lot of people are trying to say: jobs are essentially locked behind the Main Story. Which is mandatory.

Besides I don't think that having access to the expansion's zone is an instant gratification since everyone will have to go there eventually: making it slower like that just doesn't seem good for a new player, that's all.

But that's just my opinion and hey, if that's how everyone wants I have nothing against it: I don't agree, but you do and so do a lot of people.

I'm a small minority anyway: my words won't change anything. I'm just here to express what I think of this idea, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

I also dislike the way the new jobs are being handled, however I cannot agree with this. Your talking about FF a series with over twenty years of content. If the gameplay was paramount then the development team would not have bothered ending 1.0 the way they did. FF is and always have been about the story first and foremost in my opinion.

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I disagree. Final Fantasy has always balanced plot and gameplay. When you were done with the plot, there was always optional content to do. FFX, there was the Dark Aeons, the Monster Arena, etc. FFVII, the Ruby/Emerald Weapons (amongst others). FFIX, Ozma, Hades, etc.

Final Fantasy (especially the very first one) was about the adventure. To fight monsters. To have fun! If it was just about the story, then SE should just make the franchise a film or a story book... which does not work for a game that requires people to pay to play per month. MMO's need to have gameplay, so that people will always have something to do. No gameplay = no point in continuing to pay a sub.

The new jobs shouldn't be gated behind the main story it's just bad business practice and i studied business. They are advertising the expansion which is great but they are advertising with the new jobs and saying to buy and try them out. For someone who is new to XIV may be interested in Dark Knight for example from the way they showed it would want to play it sadly they can't because need to have a 50 and finished MSQ.

If i told a friend new to XIV that a cool expansion is coming out and they saw Dark Knight they will be like "wow i'm going to buy and try that class". They get the game see no Dark Knight on character creation and wonder why? I tell them "oh you need to have a level 50 first and finish all the main story up to the start of the expansion and they won't be on character creation most likely" It will turn them away and not want to waste time playing a class they don't want to play.

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Originally Posted by Remus

The new jobs shouldn't be gated behind the main story it's just bad business practice and i studied business. They are advertising the expansion which is great but they are advertising with the new jobs and saying to buy and try them out. For someone who is new to XIV may be interested in Dark Knight for example from the way they showed it would want to play it sadly they can't because need to have a 50 and finished MSQ.

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Seems to me that their target audience is existing players that already beaten this stuff and can move onto the new content.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Seems to me that their target audience is existing players that already beaten this stuff and can move onto the new content.

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Which is the problem. You should never do that with a Expansion, you want to draw in new players not turn them away. I can tell they want new players because they made the Realm Reborn + Heavensward combo for Mac that's good im all for that its a good way to get people playing because they get both. You need to strike a balance for people already playing, returning players and new players. When you introduce new jobs it shouldn't be made only for people already playing. I can bet that currently the new jobs are the huge selling point for most people who are new because they see a iconic job they recognise.

I have a brother who saw the Heavensward trailer and I told him about the new jobs. He seemed very interested in Dark Knight from what I told him. He was planning on buying Heavensward then i told him about perhaps it will be locked behind the whole main story of Realm Reborn + having a level 50. After me telling him that he is a bit unsure now if he wants to get it because he saw the other classes and those don't interest him and potentially SE just lost a customer which isn't good. Personally i'm tired of all these locking jobs/classes behind certain levels just annoys me personally. When they released rogue for example i was just like "why do i need to reach 10 or 15 (cant remember the level) just to play a rogue?" It's just a waste of time and shouldn't be there.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

MMO's need to have gameplay, so that people will always have something to do. No gameplay = no point in continuing to pay a sub.

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There's a difference between having ONLY something and being DRIVEN by something. Final Fantasy does have both elements, however, it is DRIVEN by story while GAMEPLAY takes a side seat. XIV is no different in this matter. Even Yoshi has mentioned they have opted for XIV to be driven by lore and story.

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Originally Posted by Remus

For someone who is new to XIV may be interested in Dark Knight for example from the way they showed it would want to play it sadly they can't because need to have a 50 and finished MSQ.

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A brought up issue time and time again. The same counterarguments will forever be given until it's accepted. If you choose to get into a MMO that's been out for some time, you will have to play catch up no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Remus

If i told a friend new to XIV that a cool expansion is coming out and they saw Dark Knight they will be like "wow i'm going to buy and try that class". They get the game see no Dark Knight on character creation and wonder why? I tell them "oh you need to have a level 50 first and finish all the main story up to the start of the expansion" It will turn them away and not want to waste time playing a class they don't want to play.

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People keep assuming that all new players think this way. Yes, the new jobs look cool and all. We get this, but who's to say that they won't enjoy some of the original jobs offered? Heck, they can be placeholders until they reach what they really want to do. Is there a chance that they will be turned off from this? Yes. But the chance also applies to the other side of the spectrum. Consider both sides and not just one.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

A brought up issue time and time again. The same counterarguments will forever be given until it's accepted. If you choose to get into a MMO that's been out for some time, you will have to play catch up no matter what.

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I know that but the only 2 games I can think of that had some form of catch up attached to classes is FFXI and WoW with Death Knight if there are more I just don't know of them and WoW only did that once GW2 didn't do it, SW:TOR didn't do it and ESO didn't do it because they know its bad design to do that because it just leads to people complaining why they can't have access to said job for a long time. Catch up makes sense for content such as raids, dungeons, quests, levels and such but rarely for a class. You want people to play it not lock them out from it until a certain point.