NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

ROFLMAO ...why is there so much fighting on this thread. I check this thread daily for new info i may have missed, and EVERY page...fighting......, so again ROFLMAO >.>

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Originally Posted by Tarushade

ROFLMAO ...why is there so much fighting on this thread. I check this thread daily for new info i may have missed, and EVERY page...fighting......, so again ROFLMAO >.>

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Sit back and enjoy the show. This along with the main scenario roulette topic are my daily source of entertainment...and then I reflect on humanity's future.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Sit back and enjoy the show. This along with the main scenario roulette topic are my daily source of entertainment...and then I reflect on humanity's future.

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Should probably broaden your horizon if you are reflecting on humanity's future from such jagged and limited sources. But egh, it's your moment reflection so go for it. Lol

Some of the information coming out is confusing when people discuss it. Like the quote about there being both Rogue and Ninja Primal weapons. This makes no sense to me to have separate weapons for Rogue and Ninja. But then if it does happen to be that way, then that means that the devs have no problem going outside of the current class to job box they have set up. So then in the case of people saying that Thief coming from Rogue wouldn't follow their apparent class to job rules have very little weight. Fan Feast cant come soon enough. The interviews just cause more confusion.

SDaemon: You seem to be on the defense for some reason.... I noticed that you haven't said anything about the thread topic.... o...k

I don't think it's two different weapons.
Primals weapons are all available for classes and jobs (Like Ifrit's Blade is GLA and PLD).

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I don't think it's two different weapons.
Primals weapons are all available for classes and jobs (Like Ifrit's Blade is GLA and PLD).

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SCH weapons are exclusive to SCH.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

Some of the information coming out is confusing when people discuss it. Like the quote about there being both Rogue and Ninja Primal weapons. This makes no sense to me to have separate weapons for Rogue and Ninja. But then if it does happen to be that way, then that means that the devs have no problem going outside of the current class to job box they have set up. So then in the case of people saying that Thief coming from Rogue wouldn't follow their apparent class to job rules have very little weight. Fan Feast cant come soon enough. The interviews just cause more confusion.

SDaemon: You seem to be on the defense for some reason.... I noticed that you haven't said anything about the thread topic.... o...k

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In the last couple pages, no I suppose I haven't. But I'm hardly alone if you've noticed or not it's no big. Defensive about what might I ask though?

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Originally Posted by Alkar

SCH weapons are exclusive to SCH.

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yes but sch is not the same role as acn.
the the healer book is for healers who can equip a book (sch) and dps books are for dps who can equip book (acn/inv)

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Originally Posted by Alkar

SCH weapons are exclusive to SCH.

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Summoner weapons are available to Summoner and Arcanist, however.

Scholar is, currently, the only anomaly to this.

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In the last couple pages, no I suppose I haven't. But I'm hardly alone if you've noticed or not it's no big. Defensive about what might I ask though?

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It doesn't matter because the thread topic has nothing to do with what Lolo was advocating anyway. It was derailed on the first page and the thread has never gone back to the original intent.

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Originally Posted by Hik0

yes but sch is not the same role as acn.
the the healer book is for healers who can equip a book (sch) and dps books are for dps who can equip book (acn/inv)

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The main reason is that SCH uses different base stats for their role. If Ninja requires a different or additional stat compared to Rogue then they probably need a different set of exclusive weapons.
New DEX traits have been found and they're likely for ROG. If Ninja uses STR instead or a mix of the two they'll have to create weapons to support the job. And if they're creating two sets of endgame weapons it means that there's a second job coming that they haven't announced yet (either in 2.4 or later on).

or, because they plan to allows Rogue people to be as strong than ninja, giving them special skill for them only.
i'm the only one a bit disturb by the fact that the rogue in the video use a very detailled armor that is nowhere to be found. it's way too specific to be a simple armor be usable by bard or monk.

in the V1 it was possible to play the game with the class and not only the jobs. but in ARR the jobs it's all you need, the class are non existant passed a certain level. maybe they want to change this and allows the people that want to play rogue to play it.
a way to do it, and yoshida had talk of this in an old interview, when you equip the job crystal, the skill from 30-50 change! like this the rogue have him personal skill, that ninja can't use.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

or, because they plan to allows Rogue people to be as strong than ninja, giving them special skill for them only.
i'm the only one a bit disturb by the fact that the rogue in the video use a very detailled armor that is nowhere to be found. it's way too specific to be a simple armor be usable by bard or monk.

in the V1 it was possible to play the game with the class and not only the jobs. but in ARR the jobs it's all you need, the class are non existant passed a certain level. maybe they want to change this and allows the people that want to play rogue to play it.
a way to do it, and yoshida had talk of this in an old interview, when you equip the job crystal, the skill from 30-50 change! like this the rogue have him personal skill, that ninja can't use.

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That would be interesting , if rogue gets 30-35-40-45-50 skills , and that skills are only avaliable for rogue and nin cant even use.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

That would be interesting , if rogue gets 30-35-40-45-50 skills , and that skills are only avaliable for rogue and nin cant even use.

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So basically... Just giving Rogue a second Job?

Why would they make the Class unique in the sense that it works like a Job, when they could just stick with the current convention and just put a second Job on it?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

in the V1 it was possible to play the game with the class and not only the jobs. but in ARR the jobs it\\'s all you need, the class are non existant passed a certain level. maybe they want to change this and allows the people that want to play rogue to play it.
a way to do it, and yoshida had talk of this in an old interview, when you equip the job crystal, the skill from 30-50 change! like this the rogue have him personal skill, that ninja can\\'t use.

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They would have to retroactively redesign the other classes though or risk severe imbalance. Seems a lot of work to accommodate. Unless of course they do all this at the turn of an expansion.

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Originally Posted by Alkar

The main reason is that SCH uses different base stats for their role. If Ninja requires a different or additional stat compared to Rogue then they probably need a different set of exclusive weapons.
New DEX traits have been found and they're likely for ROG. If Ninja uses STR instead or a mix of the two they'll have to create weapons to support the job. And if they're creating two sets of endgame weapons it means that there's a second job coming that they haven't announced yet (either in 2.4 or later on).

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Was it said that 2.4 will only release Rogue and Ninja until the expansion comes?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

or, because they plan to allows Rogue people to be as strong than ninja, giving them special skill for them only.
i'm the only one a bit disturb by the fact that the rogue in the video use a very detailled armor that is nowhere to be found. it's way too specific to be a simple armor be usable by bard or monk.

in the V1 it was possible to play the game with the class and not only the jobs. but in ARR the jobs it's all you need, the class are non existant passed a certain level. maybe they want to change this and allows the people that want to play rogue to play it.
a way to do it, and yoshida had talk of this in an old interview, when you equip the job crystal, the skill from 30-50 change! like this the rogue have him personal skill, that ninja can't use.

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I don't see them making any of the classes just as strong in a party as a job would be. Also it might end up making Ninja overpowered if the class Rogue is stronger than the rest of the classes.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

Was it said that 2.4 will only release Rogue and Ninja until the expansion comes?

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They said they are currently looking at a tank and healer for the expansion but who knows how plans will change.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

They said they are currently looking at a tank and healer for the expansion but who knows how plans will change.

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Ok, thank for the info. :)

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Originally Posted by LoLo

Ok, thank for the info. :)

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Hopefully sooner. As much as I'm looking forward to ninja, I'm a healer at heart.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

Thief = Rogue = Thief = Rogue

They are the exact same thing. So no we will not get a thief. Yoshi simply went with the name rogue to designate they are socially accepted thieves (though since they come from a city of pirates this was probably unnecessary)

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They're called Rogues because Thief is a classic Final Fantasy job. None of the classes in this game are given the same names as the classic Final Fantasy jobs (i.e. Dragoon, Paladin, etc.)

So how do people know that the DEX traits are for rouge? Don't Arc/bed have these traits too?

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Originally Posted by melflomil

So how do people know that the DEX traits are for rouge? Don't Arc/bed have these traits too?

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Exactly, they already have it. Which is why people are sure its for Rogue/Ninja.

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Originally Posted by ForteXX

Exactly, they already have it. Which is why people are sure its for Rogue/Ninja.

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I still don't understand how datamining 2.28 can prove traits for a 2.4 class.

One thing I thought for Rogue is giving it pretty useful cross-class skills. The whole "there's not point in playing a class past lvl30" is perhaps something that bothers the dev team, and they can try to balance the two.
Which can tie to the "support" role some people mentioned. Good buffs or debuffs available for Rogue could make it really interesting to play even without a Relic.

Or...In the live letter, they talked about Rogue mechanic based on combo (If I recall correctly). Imagine a trait that boost damage based on the number of different combos you made, and Rogue having access to cross-class skills that combo, like Impulse Drive->Disembowel...which could fit quite well with Rogue since Impulse Drive is more powerful from the back and disembowel just sound like fighting dirty :p

Tank and healing jobs should have been added to the game before more DD. To be 100% honest.... An entire class/job should not even be a thought until the orginal classes all have their 2 jobs.

This is kinda a silly move all together in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

I don't see them making any of the classes just as strong in a party as a job would be. Also it might end up making Ninja overpowered if the class Rogue is stronger than the rest of the classes.

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not really, you must think it differently, like they have make the arcanist have 2 different job branch from the the same class.
instead to use the classical class/jobs system they update it for this class, they don't need to do it for the other one.

the point it's this, you level your rogue until 30, you get your cristal jobs for ninja and equip it, all the skill of the rogue under 30 are the same for the ninja, but when you are in ninja, all the skill from the rogue class after 30 change for be more... ninja like. allows a more deep difference between the rogue and the ninja.... there, no need to add new skill every 5 level, since all the skill you normall get from 30-50 will be different.

and the best it's a way to have 2 dps coming from the same class, by making the class viable option for the high level. if the skill you get as rogue from 30-50 are unique to it, it's possible to have both in the same group.

now, i know it's only my dream running wild, but i hope they can make it like this, will be soo much better than what we have soo far.

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

Tank and healing jobs should have been added to the game before more DD. To be 100% honest.... An entire class/job should not even be a thought until the orginal classes all have their 2 jobs.

This is kinda a silly move all together in my opinion.

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you know that add more tank and healing class will change nothing? if the people don't want to tank or heal they will never do it even if you have 10 tank and 10 healer and only 1 dps class. that how people work... it's silly to even hope to solve the trouble by add new tank and healer class... since the trouble lie in what people want to do!

Tank and healer have huge responsability, DD don't have this huge pressure and that why people often choose to play this. (and the big number, we always forget the big number)

I don't understand.

He states to "save your gear". So monk's gear can be applied to Ninjas one?

Everyone knows that the second job will be Dancer! Stop kidding yourselves! They will be the maidens of the new gaming area/hotel/casino :P

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Originally Posted by Authority

I don't understand.

He states to "save your gear". So monk's gear can be applied to Ninjas one?

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IMO I think that only falls for gear that says "Disciple of war" which can be equipped to any class accept for magic users, but people said yoshi specifically said melee gear. Those are class specific. I personally think it was a mistranslation.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

I still don't understand how datamining 2.28 can prove traits for a 2.4 class.

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Because when testing stuff, most games actually load some of the data into the actual client well in advance in order to help test it/ease implementation. In 2.28, not only did they put in some skills that based on their descriptions belong to Rogue/Ninja, they also added 2 currently empty class/job slots, which would be the ones for Rogue/Ninja.

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Originally Posted by ForteXX

Because when testing stuff, most games actually load some of the data into the actual client well in advance in order to help test it/ease implementation. In 2.28, not only did they put in some skills that based on their descriptions belong to Rogue/Ninja, they also added 2 currently empty class/job slots, which would be the ones for Rogue/Ninja.

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How to verify this? I like this statement.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

How to verify this? I like this statement.

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Isn't it verified by Yoshida announcing Rogue and Ninja?

this is just mind boggling...
ppl are *speculating* about ROG using dex, to the extent that you turn it into a semi-job, where it got skills that NIN cant use...just so you can match your XI dex THF job image, into XIV ROG....
i cant even...

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Originally Posted by Radacci

this is just mind boggling...
ppl are *speculating* about ROG using dex, to the extent that you turn it into a semi-job, where it got skills that NIN cant use...just so you can match your XI dex THF job image, into XIV ROG....
i cant even...

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If anything the FFXI Thief was an Agility class with gear macros for Strength when you weaponskilled.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

If anything the FFXI Thief was an Agility class with gear macros for Strength when you weaponskilled.

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Can we close this pointless debate about what Thief was in FFXI since we're not in FFXI and we don't have the same stats in XIV ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Can we close this pointless debate about what Thief was in FFXI since we're not in FFXI and we don't have the same stats in XIV ?

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I don't know, can we?

Well judging from the Info datamined from the patch on this page:

http://xivdb.com/?search/!patch-Patch2.28

the skills listed go something like this (Google Translate and then I paraphrase a little) so please forgive me for any major inaccuracies:

lv - 8 - dex +2
lv 14 - fall dmg down
lv 16 - dex +4
lv 20 - reduced the movement speed reduction from stealth
lv 24 - dex +6
lv 28 - Increased movement speed
lv 32 - 20% dmg effect up specialised poison buff (highly toxic)
lv 36 - increased tp regen
lv 40 - 10% dmg effect up multiple specialised poison buff
lv 44 - 45 potency dot combo B-1
lv 48 - 80 potency knife throwing damage (PBAE?)


As much as I don't wan't Rogue to be dex based this seems to be what is there. But who knows none of it is implemented and could be changed at any point between now and 2.4

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Originally Posted by Radacci

this is just mind boggling...
ppl are *speculating* about ROG using dex, to the extent that you turn it into a semi-job, where it got skills that NIN cant use...just so you can match your XI dex THF job image, into XIV ROG....
i cant even...

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I read this more than twice and I still can't seem to understand what you are talking about.

Either way, its on topic to discuss possible jobs that come from Rogue. I love how up in arms some people get at the thought of a Thief Job. So odd, so weird.

Well lets look at classic rogue and ninja jobs and how they work, we don't even have to look just inside FF. They both use low damage and high critical hit rates/damage to do their dps; they use str as their main stat but dex can often be an equally good stat sometimes on par with str. looking at it this way it would 100% make perfect since for Rogue/ninja to wear str gear and get dex traits to supplement it's crit damage instead of it's base damage.

exept dex don't affect critical chance in anyway, that the point, i don't see why we debat on this anymore... 2 reason to this:

1) the game actually goes with if you are a melee you use STR and if you are ranged physical dps you go with DEX, ninja being a melee dps (from what we have seen) it naturally fall into STR case

2) and it's the most important one, if Ninja is dex based, one of the most ninja look like armor of the game (the fuma armor from CT) will not be for the ninja! that will be a nonsense soo bad!

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Originally Posted by LoLo

I read this more than twice and I still can't seem to understand what you are talking about.

Either way, its on topic to discuss possible jobs that come from Rogue. I love how up in arms some people get at the thought of a Thief Job. So odd, so weird.

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Because Yoshi already said that Thief doesn't fall in line with the lore so they went with Rogue; They are ones who used to be thieves. This is from Yoshi P at E3. That is why.

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Originally Posted by Authority

I don't understand.

He states to "save your gear". So monk's gear can be applied to Ninjas one?

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Yep. He clearly stated that since it's a melee-dps that one should save their gear. Thus, monk is the only that makes since, especially given the ninja ct gear. Cant wait. Only 4 gear pieces away from full 110 myself :).