Novus weapon upgrade system findings

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Originally Posted by Arkista

I still don't think it would have a lower cap than 31. I'll go jump on the game and check but I'm pretty sure on Sphere Scroll it says 0/31 for DET. So if they were to cap DET why would it say0/31 and not something like 0/22? We'll find out soon enough anyways since Shea is about to be on meld #20 for DET.

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It does say 0/31 for Det but all that means is 0/31 Infusion. Until someone finishes all 75 melds assuming 44 crit 31 det, we'll never know for sure. IIRC, there has been no single piece that has secondary stats at caps for more than 1 stat. As for why it says 0/31 instead of 0/22? Probably to make it fair towards other combinations not involving Determination so people all have to meld 75 times.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Oh http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/d348a07bdbe/ Book of spades ilvl110 31DET

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But crit is not at maximum of 44. Which is why I'm thinking you'll only be able to max out 1 stat.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

I get what you're saying about it, But I don't think SE would do that. If they did it would be screwed up. Probably 2-3 more days and Shea might be done with DET.

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Still wouldn't confirm anything if he hasn't maxed crit/acc/sps on it. Even then, he'd need to make it a novus to confirm. It'd be nice if you can have 44 crit 31 det but... it's SE we're talking about and I have less faith in them than you do.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

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I get what you're saying about it, But I don't think SE would do that. If they did it would be screwed up. Probably 2-3 more days and Shea might be done with DET.

Just wait for some one to get to the point of infusing the 23rd might materia and visit jal zahn, if the stats on the product show 22 stats then its 1 mat and alex wadted but you know determination is capped, if i do this then ill throw the remaining infuses into acc after capping crit rate for my gae bolg.

Infuse 20 Savage Might Grade III on Sphere Scroll: Stardust Rod. Chance 80% Result: +1 Det
Infuse 21 Savage Might Grade III on Sphere Scroll: Stardust Rod. Chance 70% Result: +1 Det
Infuse 22 will rquire Savage Might Grade III

So.... the 'alexandrites from fates' thing is jsut a great big joke to see who's gullible enough to keep doing fates, right? Because at 250+ fates now without an alexandrite I'm beginning to feel like the butt of a joke. It's not just atma zones is it? I've done a lot in Coerthas/N. Thanalan/ Mor Dhona.

TRNG Mayonnegg

Troll Random Number Generator

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Still wouldn't confirm anything if he hasn't maxed crit/acc/sps on it. Even then, he'd need to make it a novus to confirm. It'd be nice if you can have 44 crit 31 det but... it's SE we're talking about and I have less faith in them than you do.

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If it had a cap then why wouldn't it say so? If you look at Piety on Spharia it has a cap of 23, If SE was going to make DET cap at a lower value when finished, Then why even put the cap at 31?

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Originally Posted by Shea

TRNG Mayonnegg

Troll Random Number Generator

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Yeah. :( I never had it too bad with Atma, but this is frustrating. I'm only going after one tbh, otherwise it will all have been for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Shea

Infuse 20 Savage Might Grade III on Sphere Scroll: Stardust Rod. Chance 80% Result: +1 Det
Infuse 21 Savage Might Grade III on Sphere Scroll: Stardust Rod. Chance 70% Result: +1 Det
Infuse 22 will rquire Savage Might Grade III

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Shea, it's been over an hour since your last meld . . . . WTF slacker. ;p

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Originally Posted by Arkista

If it had a cap then why wouldn't it say so? If you look at Piety on Spharia it has a cap of 23, If SE was going to make DET cap at a lower value when finished, Then why even put the cap at 31?

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Because piety is not a native stat to monk so it's natural that piety cap would be lower. I'd guess spell-speed has a lower cap on Sphairai than Omnilex/Thyrus/Stardust Rod/Veil of Wiyu. This is based from past experience like that one guy assuming piety caps are the same on bard gear vs healer gear while it's not the case a while back.
But like I said, it's all speculation right now. Your guess is as good as mine. No point in arguing about it until someone actually finishes one.
Also, because Determination cap for i110 is actually 31. It doesn't mean you'll be able to cap Determination AND Crit/SkS/SpS/Acc if the Novus follows the general trends of being only capped on 1 stat, see Book of Spades. It also assumes that SE doesn't want people to cap 2 stats if they choose Determination while not being able to cap 2 stats if they do not, for example crit and sps, both can't reach cap of 44 as we only have 75 points.
As speculation again, you have a choice to either do 44 crit 22 det or 31 crit 31 det after 75 melds depending on which one you cap first.

Novus doesn't follow the general trend already because you have control over it's stats.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

As speculation again, you have a choice to either do 44 crit 22 det or 31 crit 31 det after 75 melds depending on which one you cap first.

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Being given this choice would be all kinds of awesome. And by choice, I mean that if you meld 44 X and 31 Det, you'll be able to choose whether you want 44/22 or 31/31 when you're making the final upgrade to Novus. I highly doubt we'll actually be able to get 44 X and 31 Det as that equals 87.7 points of stat weight instead of 75. This is assuming a Det weight of ~1.41, which seems accurate enough for simple calculations :)

If you want to play with Piety, I think that one's ~1.34.

Meld 6 Crit was 100%, Meld 7 Crit was 96%, Meld 8 was 90% have some more Alex but I need to do some more spirit boding.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

44 X and 31 Det as that equals 87.7 points of stat weight instead of 75.

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do i live in a different world or why was i tought that 44 + 31 equals 75...?

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Originally Posted by Viore

do i live in a different world or why was i tought that 44 + 31 equals 75...?

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Even though the caps are indicative of the different weights, people seem to think that you'll be capped before the cap. My bet is that you can have 31 det and 44 crit on your novus else it wouldn't be listed as such.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

Shea, it's been over an hour since your last meld . . . . WTF slacker. ;p

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Been doing FC stuff T5 and Gex =)

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Originally Posted by Shea

Been doing FC stuff T5 and Gex =)

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Awwwww, hardcore and nice. I like you.

This is silly. You will absolutely have +44 crit and +31 det if you melded those.

Look at the meld% for det vs. other materia:

Crit melds progress at 100%, 100%, 100%, 100%, 100%, 100%, 96%, 90%, 82%, 72%, 60% for each tier (overall 91%).
Det melds progress at 100%, 94,%, 88%, 80%, 70%, 60%, 50% for each tier (overall 77%).

It's WAY more difficult to successfuly meld determination. THAT's the cost of maxing determination over "cheaper" attributes!

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Originally Posted by Viore

do i live in a different world or why was i tought that 44 + 31 equals 75...?

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Let me do the Math for you. Let's take two i110 weapons that currently have Determination.

The Glanzfaust: 44 Accuracy and 22 Determination. 44 + 22 = 66.
The Book of Spades: 31 Crit Rate and 31 Determination. 31 + 31 = 62.

66? 62? What? Don't we have 75 points to meld? Let's look at a couple of other weapons.

The Laevateinn: 44 Accuracy and 31 Spell Speed. 44 + 31 = 75.
The Rosenbogen: 31 Crit Rate and 44 Skill Speed. 31 + 44 = 75.

Ah, that's better. So, why do these weapons without Determination add up to 75 and the weapons with Determination add up to something lower? Because Determination has a higher weight than other stats. i110 weapons have a cap of 75 "points" of secondary stats. Crit Rate, Accuracy, and Spell/Skill Speed have the same weight. They each cost one "point" out of our 75. It can be surmised, therefore, that Determination costs more than one point. Let's think of it this way.

The Glanzfaust has 44 accuracy. Subtract that from 75 and we have 31 points left. The only other stat is Determination, so it can be seen that the remaining 31 "points" are in Determination. However, the stat says 22. This is because Determination costs more than one point. Let's discover just how much it costs.

Divide the 31 points assigned to Determination by the 22 it becomes and we get 1.409. Let's round this up to 1.41.

We can additionally test the Book of Spades. 75 "points" minus the 31 Crit we have is 44 points. 44 points assigned to Determination divided by the 31 we end up with is 1.419. Quite similar to our number from the Glanzfaust, yes? Let's take a mid-range out of both of these and declare the weight of Determination as being about 1.415, give or take a step or two. The actual number is probably more precise, but this will do for our simple calculations.

This means that every point of Determination on your piece of gear costs 1.415 points out of the amount of "points" allocated to that piece's secondary stats. Let's redo our math with these weights in mind.

The Glanzfaust: 44 x 1.0 = 44 Accuracy and 22 x 1.415 = 31.13 Determination = 75.13. We can round this down to 75.
The Book of Spades: 31 x 1.0 = 31 Crit and 31 x 1.415 = 43.86 Determination = 74.86. We can round this up to 75.

As you can see, these weapons with Determination have 75 secondary points attached to them after all. Now, let's redo the 44 X + 31 Det equation you're disputing, using, say... Crit, as the X.

44 x 1.0 = 44 Crit and 31 x 1.415 = 43.86 Determination = 87.86. We can round this up to 88 if we want. This number is clearly higher than 75, the number I've just proved is the cap for i110 weapons; even those with Determination. Therefore, it will very likely not be the case that we can actually have 44 of a 1:1 ratio stat and 31 Determination at the same time. The weights won't match up with the intended total of 75. Novus Weapons with Determination would be unequivocally better than weapons without it, and I doubt SE is stupid enough to let this happen.

My theory is that infusing 31 "points" of Determination into a weapon will give you 22 of the actual stat at the moment of the Novus upgrade. Alternatively, it would be cool if we were given the choice to go ahead and have 31 Determination and reduce any other stats on the weapon accordingly if we wanted. This higher weight, however, is no excuse to let those who choose Determination infuse fewer materia into their scroll. It would be unfair if some people got their Novus faster than others just because they chose different stats. Everyone has to infuse 75.

Any theory that 31 points of det leads to 22 of actual stat is just plain bonkers.
It clearly says Determination x/31 and 31 is what you will get if you cap it.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

(^)

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(EDIT - and by the way I appreciate this analysis)

+10 to SE if they allow the "88 stat points" (31 det, 44 crit) because if this is how it works, then this is the true reward for putting in the grueling hours of effort grinding myth and the lower chances for success with the determination stat. So imo 31 det, 33 pie, 11 ss (by your math 44 + 44 + 11 = 99 stat points) for the BiS thyrus novus.

SE I will be so happy with you if this is the case ^^

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Any theory that 31 points of det leads to 22 of actual stat is just plain bonkers.
It clearly says Determination x/31 and 31 is what you will get if you cap it.

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No theory is bonkers until is is proven true or false. Until then, it's just a theory. Likewise, the theory that 31 Det materia = 31 Det no matter what is also a theory until proven true or false.

It's useless to try and disprove such things without proof and it's childish to insult them. I have my evidence of why I think we can't have 44 of one stat and 31 Det. All you have is the number on the scroll UI, which may or may not carry the possibility of changing or may not be at all indicative of what the final stat will be.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

My theory is that infusing 31 "points" of Determination into a weapon will give you 22 of the actual stat at the moment of the Novus upgrade.

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Why would Novus have to follow the same pattern as the other ilvl110 weapons? I'm telling you its going to be 31DET cap otherwise it wouldn't say 0/31. If the value was only going to be 22 DET in the final form, then SE would have capped it 0/22, Then a weapon could have been something like 44CRIT, 22DET, 9ACC. I get SE `does a lot of stuff wrong, But I really think if they wanted DET to cap at 22 in the final form they would have put a hard cap of 22 while melding.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Why would Novus have to follow the same pattern as the other ilvl110 weapons? I'm telling you its going to be 31DET cap otherwise it wouldn't say 0/31. If the value was only going to be 22 DET in the final form, then SE would have capped it 0/22, Then a weapon could have been something like 44CRIT, 22DET, 9ACC. I get SE `does a lot of stuff wrong, But I really think if they wanted DET to cap at 22 in the final form they would have put a hard cap of 22 while melding.

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The problem with that is that, either:

1. People who chose Determination get to infuse fewer times to get to the total weight of 75
or
2. Anyone who chooses Determination gets to exceed the 75 point cap.

Either way, there's an imbalance. People either complain about "we need Determination to finish this in a timely fashion and it sucks for my class!" or "our Novus is useless unless we have Determination? WTF SE!"

My equations above showed that 31 can equal 22 and 44 can equal 31. Only time will answer the question of what the stats will do in the final hour.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

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I think you are looking into the value of the stat more than what is actually being applied to the scroll. 31 melds of DET+ 44 melds of CRIT= 75. We will need 75 Alexandrite to complete a novus. I'm not sure how someone would be done faster by doing DET over another stat. It doesn't matter the stat combo 75 melds in total will be needed.

So don't look at it like 1 DET= 1.41, Look at the value the meld adds to the Scroll. There isn't a hidden number behind it when melding, So melding 5 det is going to be 5 points not 7.05.

Also we don't know what the next part of the relic quest is going to be, So the way this could be working as intended.

Whether it's 22 determination or 31...not gonna make a huge difference honestly, isn't 9 points of determination like one point and a half of a main damange point xD? (Int,Dex, Mnd or STR). I agree with the above poster, they should really allow for things like 44 crit and 31 det for two reasons:

1 - The relic quest is tedious as hell. Might as well keep people happy after doing them.
2 - It would be less confusing.

If people start slotting materia and after they reach 31 det it says 22 det in their weapons people are gonna be confused (and disappointed, not like it takes a couple hours to do this Novus thing xD). But Donjo totally has a point, Det and piety always appear to have more weigh on equipment than the other stats, so it could perfectly be 22 det instead of 31 (though again, in my humble opinion, that would be confusing
Only time will tell who's right. My money is on 31 DET (have faith guys!)

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Originally Posted by Gallus

But Donjo totally has a point, Det and piety always appear to have more weigh on equipment than the other stats, so it could perfectly be 22 det instead of 31 (though again, in my humble opinion, that would be confusing
Only time will tell who's right. My money is on 31 DET (have faith guys!)

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Yes they are correct, But I don't think SE would screw it up like that. My thing is, if DET is going to be capped @22 in the final form why allow us to meld 31? Because I know when I finish this, I would be pissed if I lose 9 points, I could have used on another stat.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Yes they are correct, But I don't think SE would screw it up like that. My thing is, if DET is going to be capped @22 in the final form why allow us to meld 31? Because I know when I finish this, I would be pissed if I lose 9 points, I could have used on another stat.

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If my theory is true, I've provided the reason for having to still meld 31 several times: It would be unfair for some people to not have to meld 75 times. It would also be even more confusing if every meld of a weighted stat mysteriously decreased the total number of melds you could do.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Yes they are correct, But I don't think SE would screw it up like that. My thing is, if DET is going to be capped @22 in the final form why allow us to meld 31? Because I know when I finish this, I would be pissed if I lose 9 points, I could have used on another stat.

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The thing is...what Donjo means is...you meld 31 materia in Det and get 22 Det. If you happen to meld 22 materia in Det you'd probably get around 15 Det or something. But let's hope not.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

It would be unfair for some people to not have to meld 75 times.

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i dont get that...and i think Arkista doesnt as well.
where is the disadvantage or better to ask...how should it be possible, that someone has not to meld 75 times? u have to infuse 75 materia with 75 alexandrit. it doesnt even matter what materia. u have to meld 75 times, and there is no way that u can meld less to complete the scroll, or am i missing sth again?

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Originally Posted by Donjo

If my theory is true, I've provided the reason for having to still meld 31 several times: It would be unfair for some people to not have to meld 75 times. It would also be even more confusing if every meld of a weighted stat mysteriously decreased the total number of melds you could do.

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Everyone has to meld 75 times, regardless of the stats you're going for. It's the same work.

Face it, some people will have +31 det and +44 crit because that's what they want.

The fact that IV materia still only gives +1 is evidence of that.

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Originally Posted by Viore

i dont get that...and i think Arkista doesnt as well.
where is the disadvantage or better to ask...how should it be possible, that someone has not to meld 75 times? u have to infuse 75 materia with 75 alexandrit. it doesnt even matter what materia. u have to meld 75 times, and there is no way that u can meld less to complete the scroll, or am i missing sth again?

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I'm theorizing that infusing Determination 31 times into a scroll will only give you 22 on the weapon. People are asking why should you meld 31 times if the stat is 22. Why can't you just meld 22 times?

I'm saying that it's because the weights need to match. If they affected the number of infusions you had to do, you could do 44 of something and 22 Determination and your Scroll would be filled with just 66 infusions instead of 75. I'm claiming that, if my theory is right, you still need to infuse Determination 31 times so that you're still forced to meld 75 times. Having one's choice of stats affect the total number of required infusions is a bit unfair.

I made a spreadsheet of Novus Infusing Rates LINK (updating on rates whenever I find new info posted)

Healing relics are separate due to their different caps on Accuracy and Piety. Curtana and Holy shield also separate, though I don’t know what the piety cap is on them. Not sure if % rates will ever be complete cause who the hell would meld Piety on a DD or tank weapon and Accuracy on a healer, but meh.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

Let me do the Math for you. Let's take two i110 weapons that currently have Determination.

The Glanzfaust: 44 Accuracy and 22 Determination. 44 + 22 = 66.
The Book of Spades: 31 Crit Rate and 31 Determination. 31 + 31 = 62.

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Well... From another point of view...

My Thyrus Animus has 29 Det and 28 SS.

Let's say i want to max out Det (cap at 31 on scroll) and PIE (cap at 33).
After i maxed theese 2 stats i will sit at 64 points into the scroll.
If i'm forced to put the last 11 point into something else, only to find out my Det got gimped from 29 down to 22, i'd be pretty pissed...

Infuse 22 Savage Might Grade III on Sphere Scroll: Stardust Rod. Chance 60% Result: +1 Det
Infuse 23 will need Grade 3

Scroll currently at:
Crit +1/44
Det +22/31

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Most likely it'll be determined based on which maximum stat you get first. Say you max det to 31 first, when finished, you'll have 31 crit but if you max crit to 44 first, when finished, you'll have 22 det.

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I really hope this is how it turns out. I'd just put some accuracy on it instead and change my gear setup to get more determination that way rather than spend 3 mil on tier IV det materia for something like 8 determination.

Pretty sure it's 1:1.

You put 31 det on it, it will have 31 det at the end.

Doesn't matter what stat you add first or second. If this was the case, they would've explained that.

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Originally Posted by Magnesium02

I made a spreadsheet of Novus Infusing Rates...

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Your spreadsheet says 100% success rate for the first three melds of Det on Thyrus.
I can confirm that (at least for me) the success rate droped to 94% just after the first meld.
So it seems to be random...

http://abload.de/img/sphere_scroll2aso4.jpg

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Originally Posted by Rednight

Your spreadsheet says 100% success rate for the first three melds of Det on Thyrus.
I can confirm that (at least for me) the success rate droped to 94% just after the first meld.
So it seems to be random...

http://abload.de/img/sphere_scroll2aso4.jpg

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Hmm, that is interesting. I was going by Shea's posts and prior to 5th meld he wasn't as detailed. You do have 1 piety melded already, so I am wondering if the success rate isn't calculated by materia but by tier. So when people get onto their second stats rather than starting with 100% they start on like 60%. That would change things a lot as you would be wanting to apply the most expensive materials first


If anyone is going to post their meld success rates, can they state the total melds as well as the progress of the current stat?

Okay. Apparently NONE of you paid attention when talking to the novus quest dude. "If you put in 31 det, you'll prolly on get 22" your wrong and I can PROVE it. Go back to novus quest dude, take off your animus. Give it to him. Blah blah blah he will show you what the final weap stats will be. Y'all need to pay attention more. Instead of wasting hours reading all these posts. Arguing and guessing. Wasted hours. Go to north shroud and find out for yourselves. The dude EVEN said come back, I'll show you your progress whenever you what.THE END