How has your mindset changed with regards to other players since your started the ga?

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Originally Posted by OrpheusKappa

You guys probably haven't played WoW in quite a while cause nowadays trade chat is just full of boosting service spam and no casual chatter.

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Well that’s good at least. When I played it was just constant roflcopter macros, spam and people making jokes about dead babies and things. Really really horrid place.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

You do realize WoW still complete dwarfs FFXIV, yes? While neither Blizzard nor SE post official data, unofficial censuses estimates WoW having nearly 5M active accounts whereas FFXIV's estimated active characters is just shy of 1M. And both games have bot problems. Ironically, WoW does a significantly better job than FFXIV in terms of dealing with theirs.

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Well for one you're wrong on the unofficial censuses. I'll post it for you.

https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv/
https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/

FFXIV is shy of 2m and WoW is down to 4.2m from 7m and it'll go down more. It only rose because of the expansion. Lastly i beg to differ on the bot issue. I watch Asmongold quite a bit. WoW has a bot problem. A big one from what i see in the videos. So i highly doubt WoW handles their bot problem any better.

And it obviously went way over your head. Battle for Azeroth was so crap that they had to release Classic WoW because they were losing players fast. Now they are updating classic WoW alongside the current WoW to keep players in hence why i said they weren't doing fine. I mean, look at the chart for WoW. It stayed around 2m'ish(3) and only rose due expansion.

When I first started all those years ago, I thought the players would be like they were in other MMOs: elitist, antisocial, and in a constant hurry. I never understood this perspective because I play the game because I enjoy playing with other people and generally find the gameplay/world interesting. It isn't a second job, an identity, or a chore that I feel I have to do.

The more I have played and the more I have made friends in-game, the more I feel that the community in FFXIV, generally, is welcoming, positive, and, if not social, at least polite. Other than a few instances in Party Finder, nearly every player takes the opportunity to respond to chat or emotes and offers patience or guidance for new players. The fact that I get some compliment at least once a week from some random player (for my performance in a duty, my glam, or something else) is testament to that kindness.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Ah, I was wondering when you would begin your tin foil hatting. There it is. If nothing else you're predictable.



I have yet to see evidence to the contrary. And, unlike you, I have forum posts (actual evidence) to back my claims up if I choose to. Really don't want to go searching though. In this post I'm responding to (dang post limits!) alone you have contradicted yourself 3-4 times. If you can provide the proof for your claims, by all means. But as the internet would say...pics or it didn't happen.

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I think we just have a disconnect. You always ask for proof of things that can’t be proven. I say some players from WoW are elitist in novice network. My ‘proof’ is my personal experience. I have seen players say they played wow then go on to be elitist in novice network. I don’t really know how to prove this to you. Perhaps the burden of proof here should be on you. Show me that not a single elitist in novice network played wow.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Well for one you're wrong on the unofficial censuses. I'll post it for you.

https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv/
https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/

FFXIV is shy of 2m and WoW is down to 4.2m from 7m and it'll go down more. It only rose because of the expansion. Lastly i beg to differ on the bot issue. I watch Asmongold quite a bit. WoW has a bot problem. A big one from what i see in the videos. So i highly doubt WoW handles their bot problem any better.

And it obviously went way over your head. Battle for Azeroth was so crap that they had to release Classic WoW because they were losing players fast. Now they are updating classic WoW alongside the current WoW to keep players in hence why i said they weren't doing fine. I mean, look at the chart for WoW. It stayed around 2m'ish(3) and only rose due expansion.

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Um... is this supposed to refute my point? Let's put aside that websites and their questionable creditability. 4.7M is still more double 2M, thus WoW—by your own metric—dwarfs FFXIV in numerical popularity. However... did you actually click these links? According to both, WoW sits at a daily log in of 6.4M while FFXIV hovers at 1.78M, respectively. That is neither down much from 7M nor "just shy" of 2M. Seriously... if anything this bolsters my point. With all that said, this site offers no outline of how they calculate data nor whether they're accounting for bots, minimally active accounts and a whole myriad of things most unofficial censuses at least attempt to showcase. So I question the validity.

Considering FFXIV's entire market board is a bot riddled mess and several of those bots have been active since early Stormblood. They aren't doing much of anything. WoW also has substantially more players, as we've established. They'll have a higher bot problem simply do to volume. It's the same argument as "Balmung has the most bad players." Well, yes. It also has the highest population total. I never said WoW lacks a bot problem, or that they necessarily combat it well. Just better than FFXIV considering, well... FFXIV doesn't do anything.

I never said anything about Battle of Azeroth or the overall state of WoW. I simply called into question your assessment of how bad WoW is doing. Put simply, WoW is so dominate, even a complete failure of an expansion still doesn't come close to knocking them off the MMO throne. And they've held it for nearly two decades.

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Originally Posted by Whelan

When I first started all those years ago, I thought the players would be like they were in other MMOs: elitist, antisocial, and in a constant hurry. I never understood this perspective because I play the game because I enjoy playing with other people and generally find the gameplay/world interesting. It isn't a second job, an identity, or a chore that I feel I have to do.

The more I have played and the more I have made friends in-game, the more I feel that the community in FFXIV, generally, is welcoming, positive, and, if not social, at least polite. Other than a few instances in Party Finder, nearly every player takes the opportunity to respond to chat or emotes and offers patience or guidance for new players. The fact that I get some compliment at least once a week from some random player (for my performance in a duty, my glam, or something else) is testament to that kindness.

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No, I think the community is most definitely elitist, antisocial, and in a constant hurry. They just aren't up front about it. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I think we just have a disconnect. You always ask for proof of things that can’t be proven. I say some players from WoW are elitist in novice network. My ‘proof’ is my personal experience. I have seen players say they played wow then go on to be elitist in novice network. I don’t really know how to prove this to you. Perhaps the burden of proof here should be on you. Show me that not a single elitist in novice network played wow.

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Or you can come back to reality and not make baseless claims! I'm not arguing that elitist jerks exist. They do. But it isn't WoW's fault. Did you ever think the "rot" might have come from within? Because it did. Having played WoW up until recently and this game since ARR launch, I have watched it all unfold. WoW had nothing to do with why people are elitist sometimes. That just comes with the MMO territory. But it's easy to blame big and mean WoW for some people. It makes for an easy scapegoat. That is all that you do is use it as a scapegoat for problems that it had no hand in creating. Want someone or something to blame? Blame the internet for existing.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Um... is this supposed to refute my point? Let's put aside that websites and their questionable creditability. 4.7M is still more double 2M, thus WoW—by your own metric—dwarfs FFXIV in numerical popularity. However... did you actually click these links? According to both, WoW sits at a daily log in of 6.4M while FFXIV hovers at 1.78M, respectively. That is neither down much from 7M nor "just shy" of 2M. Seriously... if anything this bolsters my point. With all that said, this site offers no outline of how they calculate data nor whether they're accounting for bots, minimally active accounts and a whole myriad of things most unofficial censuses at least attempt to showcase. So I question the validity.

Considering FFXIV's entire market board is a bot riddled mess and several of those bots have been active since early Stormblood. They aren't doing much of anything. WoW also has substantially more players, as we've established. They'll have a higher bot problem simply do to volume. It's the same argument as "Balmung has the most bad players." Well, yes. It also has the highest population total. I never said WoW lacks a bot problem, or that they necessarily combat it well. Just better than FFXIV considering, well... FFXIV doesn't do anything.

I never said anything about Battle of Azeroth or the overall state of WoW. I simply called into question your assessment of how bad WoW is doing. Put simply, WoW is so dominate, even a complete failure of an expansion still doesn't come close to knocking them off the MMO throne. And they've held it for nearly two decades.

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You're not quite understanding the point here. I could care less about the number of players. You brought that up. I simply replied in tandem. My point that i made was that WoW was not doing as good as it was. In which this is true. Yes, it still holds high over others partially but the point was WoW wasn't doing good as it was.

Also yes, i did read the links i linked. You obviously didn't. Justtt like you linked a reddit post 1+ month ago on FFXIV and a screen rant post on WoW from October last year, L-O-L. MMO population is always updated. As for what it says it's "Estimated" to have 6.4m daily players on WoW but if you actually took the time to look at the graph below, it's currently 4.2m. And you question the validity? But yet you post Reddit and Screen Rant? I'll see myself out.

This game and it's players really taught me to not take my rewards for granted because I'm starting to see some strange things in Duty Finder and Party Finder as time goes by.

Some example include, but are not limited to the following:
- Tanks who don't use defensive cooldowns in large pulls and/or tankbusters
- Tanks who spin enemies around
- Healers who don't use their DPS abilities when there is absolutely no damage taken for a long time
- Healers who fail to even do simple heals
- DPS who don't aoe during big pulls
- DPS who can't even do their simpler parts of the attack rotations
- Party members who use NORMAL quality weapons in EX trials and Savage raids.
- Party members who don't use chat when asked questions or could use help with mechanics, especially in high-end content

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

This game and it's players really taught me to not take my rewards for granted because I'm starting to see some strange things in Duty Finder and Party Finder as time goes by.

Some example include, but are not limited to the following:
- Tanks who spin enemies around

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That one, i can explain. Spinning (or kiting, that works too) allows you, if you catch the right timing and feel for it, allows you to delay the auto attack from enemies to a certain degree, it is a tactic frequently (and even necessary) used my melee dps which allows them to kill some stuff, which they normally aren't capable to, but it is a tactic that is somewhat frowned upon, since it feels like abusing a bug.

Oh, and

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

No, I think the community is most definitely elitist, antisocial, and in a constant hurry. They just aren't up front about it. Simple as that.

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In case you haven't noticed yourself, FFXIV's community is toxic in its own way, which someone here on the forums put up nicely on his signature, altrough i can't come up with the name. "Toxic Casualism", was it how he called it, a fitting name.