Can we please get more cool looking outfits for male characters?

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Originally Posted by Talraen

But Square Enix has data about how many people use glamours in games. If that data says that female characters used glamour far more often, then it would stand to reason to expect female characters to also buy glamours far more often.

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And as stated before in this thread, if the female charas get more glamour options to begin with, and their options are far superior to the male charas' even when those do get glamours, is it really such a surprise? It's the egg and the chicken situation where you're claiming one came first, and we're saying it's the other. As for why it's like this at all, it all boils down to sexism and judging by the devs' discomfort at rendering sexy/appealing outfits for male charas, probably a bit of homophobia, too. Same reason these situations exist in real life.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

And as stated before in this thread, if the female charas get more glamour options to begin with, and their options are far superior to the male charas' even when those do get glamours, is it really such a surprise? It's the egg and the chicken situation where you're claiming one came first, and we're saying it's the other. As for why it's like this at all, it all boils down to sexism and judging by the devs' discomfort at rendering sexy/appealing outfits for male charas, probably a bit of homophobia, too. Same reason these situations exist in real life.

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I mean, you're not wrong. But the "same reason these situations exist in real life" comment is kind of important here. Do you think that offering a few more male glamours in FFXIV is going to solve this age-old issue, even only within the context of FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by Serilda

I never bought any of the male-only cash shop glamours because they didn't arrive until after I was embroiled in this problem of being treated like a second class customer; I didn't buy Aymeric's (which I actively like) because to do so would have accepted the insult of S-E releasing his hairstyle as a unisex item against all of their own supposed principles.

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I wanted to touch on this separately, because this is the crux of my issue with what you're arguing. I use Aymeric's hairstyle, because it is by far my favorite female hairstyle in the game. It's the only thing I've ever bought from the store and have never changed since. I spent a ton of extra money and got a bunch of gear I can't even use in order to get that hairstyle. (Though to be honest I wouldn't have used the gear anyway, because I don't find it at all appealing.)

Why would denying me that make you feel better? Why do I need to suffer so you can feel like a first class citizen? You want me to not have access to something I want so you can have exclusive access, even though you're not even using it. Who is the winner here?

More glamours is good. Less locks is good. Calling for more locks because you're mad that you're locked out of something else is bad. That's not fairness, that's pettiness.

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Originally Posted by Talraen

I mean, you're not wrong. But the "same reason these situations exist in real life" comment is kind of important here. Do you think that offering a few more male glamours in FFXIV is going to solve this age-old issue, even only within the context of FFXIV?

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This game is riddled with that sort of thing so even if we get some decent male glamours (or just keep the few decent ones male-locked for a change) it won't change the fact that the game thinks enjoying the male physique is wrong like in the last summer event, or writing female characters as damsels in distress despite being war heroes, or fridging, etc, etc. But ultimately that sort of thing, while leaving a lasting impression, is only a small portion of how I spend my time in this game. Seeing my chara, as well as others', running around in attractive, stylish glamours made for male characters, finding myself actually Examining male characters instead of only female characters, and not feeling like I have to apologize to the game for enjoying seeing guys dress nice would certainly be a step in the right direction in making a lot of players feel more welcome than we do right now.

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Originally Posted by Talraen

Why would denying me that make you feel better?

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Schadenfreude. But more seriously...
It won't, but then again, that's not the point here. The point here is that Minfillia and Y'shtola's SB hairstyles remain gender locked despite there being a precedent for hairstyles to be gender-neutral while the rest of the outfit is not. Meanwhile I'm sure that if enough people asked for Thancred's hair to be unlocked for ladies, it would, if it's not already.
Lock everything so it's fair, or unlock everything for that same fairness. Otherwise it's the exact double standard at the core of this issue.

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Originally Posted by Talraen

I wanted to touch on this separately, because this is the crux of my issue with what you're arguing. I use Aymeric's hairstyle, because it is by far my favorite female hairstyle in the game. It's the only thing I've ever bought from the store and have never changed since.

Why would denying me that make you feel better? Why do I need to suffer so you can feel like a first class citizen? You want me to not have access to something I want so you can have exclusive access, even though you're not even using it. Who is the winner here?

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I have a very specific reason for being salty about Aymeric's hair. In my case, I would have loved to use Minfilia's hair. It ticks all of my boxes, being intricate, not really short and yet not clipping through every single collar in the game. It doesn't have an annoying headband or wispy parts which would clip my ears like most of the in-game updos I can use. It's not especially 'manly', but I'm a 2m tall elezen dude; I don't care about that. There are hardly any hairstyles in the game which fit the bill, just like Aymeric's hairstyle is special for you. I think Aymeric's hair looks good on girls going for a tomboy aesthetic. I also think that Minfilia's would have looked good on guys going for the opposite.

I would have zero problem whatsoever with the Aymeric thing if they had not set a precedent with Minfilia's hair and then made a special exception the very first time a male-only outfit with unique hair got released without a female equivalent (Thancred/Y'shtola cancel out, those sets were fine even though in an ideal world everything would be unisex). Minfilia's useless costume is only one item so it wouldn't even penalise me too much on inventory. I would definitely have bought it. Selling it locked on the basis that NPC styles should be true to the original character - so much so that we can't even dye them - then seeing them immediately making new rules when only female characters could benefit is a perfect example of how messed up this game has become.

So no, I'm not happy at the idea of players with female characters being locked out of items they might really love, like Aymeric's hair or the Gambler set or the only smart suit girls have access to in the game. But I do feel we'd get less pushback on these issues and more fellow gamers speaking up with us if the issue affected everyone, not just half of everyone.

(And I am salty at the moment, I know, but since I just decided to upset my entire FC and stop renewing a sub to a game I would otherwise love I feel that my annoyance, three long years and over a thousand posts in the making, is understandable. I feel like I know all of the other people who have been fighting for this stuff on the forums over the years personally at this point even though we'll never meet in the game. It's ridiculous that it's still an issue.)

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Originally Posted by Serilda

I have a very specific reason for being salty about Aymeric's hair. In my case, I would have loved to use Minfilia's hair. It ticks all of my boxes, being intricate, not really short and yet not clipping through every single collar in the game. It doesn't have an annoying headband or wispy parts which would clip my ears like most of the in-game updos I can use. It's not especially 'manly', but I'm a 2m tall elezen dude; I don't care about that. There are hardly any hairstyles in the game which fit the bill, just like Aymeric's hairstyle is special for you. I think Aymeric's hair looks good on girls going for a tomboy aesthetic. I also think that Minfilia's would have looked good on guys going for the opposite.

I would have zero problem whatsoever with the Aymeric thing if they had not set a precedent with Minfilia's hair and then made a special exception the very first time a male-only outfit with unique hair got released without a female equivalent (Thancred/Y'shtola cancel out, those sets were fine even though in an ideal world everything would be unisex). Minfilia's useless costume is only one item so it wouldn't even penalise me too much on inventory. I would definitely have bought it. Selling it locked on the basis that NPC styles should be true to the original character - so much so that we can't even dye them - then seeing them immediately making new rules when only female characters could benefit is a perfect example of how messed up this game has become.

So no, I'm not happy at the idea of players with female characters being locked out of items they might really love, like Aymeric's hair or the Gambler set or the only smart suit girls have access to in the game. But I do feel we'd get less pushback on these issues and more fellow gamers speaking up with us if the issue affected everyone, not just half of everyone.

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I feel you on this (obviously), but let's argue for them to unlock Minfilia's hair, and while we're at it, everything else. I see your point about the issue affecting everyone giving it visibility, but I just don't like that tactic.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

(And I am salty at the moment, I know, but since I just decided to upset my entire FC and stop renewing a sub to a game I would otherwise love I feel that my annoyance, three long years and over a thousand posts in the making, is understandable. I feel like I know all of the other people who have been fighting for this stuff on the forums over the years personally at this point even though we'll never meet in the game. It's ridiculous that it's still an issue.)

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Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but hopefully there will eventually be some happy resolution to all this.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

...or writing female characters as damsels in distress despite being war heroes, or fridging, etc, etc.

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I'm genuinely curious what you're referring to here.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Lock everything so it's fair, or unlock everything for that same fairness. Otherwise it's the exact double standard at the core of this issue.

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I think it's very obvious which of those we should be arguing for.

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Originally Posted by Talraen

I'm genuinely curious what you're referring to here.

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Moen was killed for Urianger to have a personality. Yda/Lyse is about the most stubborn, rash, hotheaded thing in existence... until she needs Thancred to drag her away instead of, you know, rushing towards Papalymo alongside the WoL (the option I picked) and have Papalymo knock the both of us back. Two examples that didn't sit right with me, off the top of my head.

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I think it's very obvious which of those we should be arguing for.

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Agreed. But I'd settle for some nice male-exclusive items first because that'll be easier for them than going back and unlocking everything.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Moen was killed for Urianger to have a personality. Yda/Lyse is about the most stubborn, rash, hotheaded thing in existence... until she needs Thancred to drag her away instead of, you know, rushing towards Papalymo alongside the WoL (the option I picked) and have Papalymo knock the both of us back. Two examples that didn't sit right with me, off the top of my head.

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Oh I thought you were referring to something with the Warrior of Light specifically. But yeah those are fair examples.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Agreed. But I'd settle for some nice male-exclusive items first because that'll be easier for them than going back and unlocking everything.

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Why would that be easier? At worst they'd need to model everything for the opposite gender, which in many cases (e.g., all of the original scions except Minfilia) is a complete non-issue because they were using standard 1.0 non-gender-locked gear anyway. And if that is actually a lot of work, then continuing to make exclusive models now just increases the barrier to solving that problem later.

I agree that SE should go back and unlock all hairs for both sexes (and the general thread topic), tbh I didn't know the Aymeric hair was usable by females til Talraen mentioned it. Guess I've never noticed anyone with it.