Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Why keep throwing the same criticisms at the game if they never get implimented?
Not trying to @ you or anything, but the same logic can be used other ways, and it just amounts to...why bother?
And thats not an attitude anybody should have. And I sure as heck dont advocate for it.

Patronizing? Well thats not my intent or goal. I know emotion and intent is hard to read through a screen.

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Oh, it's plain to see you post in good faith.

It's just for the most part, it has unfortunately been used en masse to dismiss valid player feedback, and quite frankly a large number of us get a nerve tick even reading it because of it lol

I still shout into the void in hopes they will actually implement these changes even if it feels hopeless, which is kind of sad. They have shown in the past they are capable of listening to player feedback (even if it requires content creators to actually get the point across due to marketing). So, running on the fumes of pure hopium, because I know they can absolutely do better than what they did with the patches in Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

Oh, it's plain to see you post in good faith.

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I disagree. From what little I can see quoted by you and others this is just the same song and dance "I'm just joking/I'm """genuinely""" curious/poking fun/don't take me seriously" while people are trying to have a discussion about how this game seems to only be going from flop to flop and in the face of our concerns we kept being met with behavior akin to this:

https://i.imgur.com/J2AtpzT.png

It's unproductive and anyone whose been around long enough can see through these kind of derailment tactics employed by not just that individual but others who have antagonized me and others in the past and then try and play it off when they get caught in the act red-handed. I hope they're proud of their behavior because all it's led to is further stifling of the discussions needed to have in order to prevent FFXIV from reaching the state it did.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

snipped because wall

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I mean, I agree it isn't productive to just say "Just play other games", It's why I frown upon it because it defeats the entire premise of us wanting reasons to actually play the goddamn game. Not 24/7 playtime, just to log-in and do stuff. I'm just not going to sit and bicker for pages and pages because it isn't going to get us anywhere. I'd rather just move on with the discussion unless the poster truly deserves the reckoning.

if you go earlier into the thread you should see times I've ripped into others completely and utterly pointless patronizing responses. Or just look up my post history, idk. I have nothing to hide.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I disagree. From what little I can see quoted by you and others this is just the same song and dance "I'm just joking/I'm """genuinely""" curious/poking fun/don't take me seriously" while people are trying to have a discussion about how this game seems to only be going from flop to flop and in the face of our concerns we kept being met with behavior akin to this:

[...]

It's unproductive and anyone whose been around long enough can see through these kind of derailment tactics employed by not just that individual but others who have antagonized me and others in the past and then try and play it off when they get caught in the act red-handed. I hope they're proud of their behavior because all it's led to is further stifling of the discussions needed to have in order to prevent FFXIV from reaching the state it did.

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Yes, whether meant in good faith or not (I'm leaving either possibility open), the same hoarsely voiced refrain does become grating after a while, especially when it's been patiently explained why it's not an effective rejoinder.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

I mean, I agree it isn't productive to just say "Just play other games", It's why I frown upon it because it defeats the entire premise of us wanting reasons to actually play the goddamn game. Not 24/7 playtime, just to log-in and do stuff. I'm just not going to sit and bicker for pages and pages because it isn't going to get us anywhere. I'd rather just move on with the discussion unless the poster truly deserves the reckoning.

if you go earlier into the thread you should see times I've ripped into others completely and utterly pointless patronizing responses. Or just look up my post history, idk. I have nothing to hide.

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Yeah, personally I just don't bother with people after a while if it's clear it's not going to be a productive endeavour/use of time. So it's understandable.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

You know I don't really want to say I told you so but to be fair, I told you so. Me and others have been sounding the alarm bells that something was off this whole expansion so I think I'll link some of my previous threads here so people can have a read through the first few posts or so. Crazy what happens when you don't listen to your playerbase.


State of the Game prior to Liveletter

Live Letter Hopes, Expectations, and Concerns

Hildibrand for relic? Really?

4.35 vs 6.35

Review of 6.3 Story Content

Relic News - 6.45

I want to play *This* game

That Which He Does Not Play

The Lessons Not Learned.

Why this Live Letter Matters

How to Restore Confidence in FFXIV

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When you complain about everything, of course you'll be right sometimes.
Bringing all this up as a "I was right!" card makes you look so petty.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

When you complain about everything, of course you'll be right sometimes.
Bringing all this up as a "I was right!" card makes you look so petty.

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Im pretty sure the only reason for the return is to be that guy to "nyahnyah I told ya so" even though it wouldve been better for them to keep their integrity and own up to their "Im done with FFXIV for good" shtick and not get involved with furthee petty forum drama.

Although at this point, THAT doesnt matter anymore, state of the game has always been a bit ehh

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Im pretty sure the only reason for the return is to be that guy to "nyahnyah I told ya so" even though it wouldve been better for them to keep their integrity and own up to their "Im done with FFXIV for good" shtick and not get involved with furthee petty forum drama.

Although at this point, THAT doesnt matter anymore, state of the game has always been a bit ehh

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I agree i don't have a problem with aveyond but there is only so many 'I'm quitting this time for good guys" threads one can make before losing any credibility when there sole reason coming back and resubbing was to say "I told you so" to everyone.

Due to the addictive nature of MMOs and gameplay loops, whenever someone would burn out on FFXI and then announce it on the AH forum, the running joke was always, "Ok, see you in two months or two years."

Everyone always comes back eventually, even if it's just to remind themselves of why they quit again.

Tale as old as MMOs!

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Due to the addictive nature of MMOs and gameplay loops, whenever someone would burn out on FFXI and then announce it on the AH forum, the running joke was always, "Ok, see you in two months or two years."

Everyone always comes back eventually, even if it's just to remind themselves of why they quit again.

Tale as old as MMOs!

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I made the same comment on one of aveyond's many returns and people kept defending him.

To quote his own words, " I told you so."

Aveyond made those who defended him look stupid.

This will be a somewhat lengthy post. Sorry in advance.

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Originally Posted by Raasu

Not trying to be a jerk, but why keep making that suggestion if it always ends up with the same (negative) replies?

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I haven't made that suggestion on these forums in months explicitly because most of the people on here take it as a direct attack/insult regardless of how it's explained.

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Originally Posted by Raasu

For the most part, people on this forum aren't toddlers and they don't need explicit permission from a stranger to play other games, nor the affirmation that it is alright to do so.

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I find this line strange. I've never been under the impression that people require permission to play the game from anybody on here. People having a sub does not require "approval" from anyone except SE.

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Originally Posted by Raasu

Even at face value it just comes off as slightly patronizing.

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The following is both a response to this line but also a lengthy explanation of why I have suggested to stop playing in the past. I’m aware that Raasu is not making all of these points. I’m bringing them up because they asked “why?”

Honestly, what comes off as patronizing to me is to have no bite behind one’s bark. I'm fully aware that people can enjoy something about a game while criticizing it however; it comes off extremely weird to not only continue to take part in something that said individual has so many complaints about, but to also financially support said product.

This is a game. I pay money and spend time here to enjoy it. The moment the negatives stack up above the positives then I'm out and I've done it before. Notably when "there wasn't anything to do". That single complaint always makes me mind go to "then stop playing" because I've been there on this and many other games. If I don't have something to do in the game, why would I stay? Boredom is the biggest negative any game can have.

Additionally, I've seen a lot of people make the argument of "it's no longer worth the sub price" which they often either explain or heavily imply that they want the sub cost to be reduced or removed, but people who make that statement will often ignore the very obvious other option there which is to just stop paying/playing.

The housing excuse is also extremely tiring at this point as well. If you bought a house, you did so knowing how the system worked (unless you were maybe part of the first housing release) and that you would lose it if you took a long enough break. To continue to maintain the sub either exclusively or even mostly just to hold onto that house comes off as little more than sunk cost fallacy. Is the housing situation an abusive monetary tactic? Yes, obviously. Do I think it should change? Of course. Should Island sanctuary have an instanced housing feature added? 100% it should. I can agree with someone on all those points and still think maintaining a sub for a house is a bad hill to die on.

I’m very firmly of the opinion that removing financial support is the biggest/loudest feedback any consumer can provide for any product. A lot of people have made comparisons to things that are happening now in XIV to things that happened in WoW that led to its decline. If that is in fact the case then wouldn’t it be a good idea to show the feedback Blizzard eventually listened to and stop subbing? As far as I’m concerned, continuing to financially support a product while having major issues with it is giving a company all the reason to not listen to you.