Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

Until you realize it has a little tiny tail at the back and you look like an 8-year-old in a dragon costume

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That sounds adorable. Brb making a lalafel dragoon =D

Lol, I don't recall any tail component of the chestpiece tbh. Miqote already have tails so ...

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Lol, I don't recall any tail component of the chestpiece tbh. Miqote already have tails so ...

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I only noticed it a couple days ago. I was looking at the badass knives that rim the bottom of the chest, and then I saw a little stubby one at the back that didn't look like the others. It was then that the realization dawned on me. They had given me a little stubby dragon tail, the bastards.

I haven't been the same since.

That or you're suffering from the worst case of hemorrhoids ...

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

I only noticed it a couple days ago. I was looking at the badass knives that rim the bottom of the chest, and then I saw a little stubby one at the back that didn't look like the others. It was then that the realization dawned on me. They had given me a little stubby dragon tail, the bastards.

I haven't been the same since.

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It's not just a stubby little tail, it's an aerodynamic jump stabilizer. At least, that's what I tell myself to be able to sleep at night.

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Originally Posted by LupusLazuli

It's not just a stubby little tail, it's an aerodynamic jump stabilizer. At least, that's what I tell myself to be able to sleep at night.

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Face it man, this is what we have become:

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v2/1...pg_200x200.jpg

Just some parse results I did today with my current gear. Was pretty pleased with the results. Still need a lot more gear... But I thought this was interesting enough to share.

http://i.imgur.com/CYsCiNJ.jpg

In regards to our stat weights

Weapon Damage: 7.54
Strength: 1
Determination: .22
Crit: 0.16
Skill Speed: .146

How up to date is this? I'm getting mixed information regarding the value of crit compared to det. Can anyone link the math behind our valuing of Det over Crit?

Should the BiS Dragoon list be changed... because for some reason I can 'not' mouse over whats in the url listed, and haven't been able to for some time now. Can any of you? Or is there a new BiS url that i'm missing/overlooking?

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

Should the BiS Dragoon list be changed... because for some reason I can 'not' mouse over whats in the url listed, and haven't been able to for some time now. Can any of you? Or is there a new BiS url that i'm missing/overlooking?

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That is very odd. For now you can just click the xivmodels tab to see the gear pieces, I'll work it out later.

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Originally Posted by THEJOWENS

Just some parse results I did today with my current gear. Was pretty pleased with the results. Still need a lot more gear... But I thought this was interesting enough to share.

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The 20 second burst with food and potion of strength is very 'interesting'.

Good to know spamming the potions does pay off!

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Originally Posted by THEJOWENS

Just some parse results I did today with my current gear. Was pretty pleased with the results. Still need a lot more gear... But I thought this was interesting enough to share.

http://i.imgur.com/CYsCiNJ.jpg

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These are quite impressive over that period of time, how do you get logrep to do the training dummy ? I wanna try this tonight lol

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Originally Posted by Misfortune

In regards to our stat weights

Weapon Damage: 7.54
Strength: 1
Determination: .22
Crit: 0.16
Skill Speed: .146

How up to date is this? I'm getting mixed information regarding the value of crit compared to det. Can anyone link the math behind our valuing of Det over Crit?

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Good question. I recall EasyMode posting them but never saw the source or testing of where it all derives from.

It's based on a fairly robust model of Dragoon DPS using valk's damage formulas. Note that there's some contention as to the validity of those formulas in release, but it's the best we have atm.

What Accuracy do you need for turn1/2/4 and lastly 5? I don't know if I need to make Button Mushroom Saute or Buttons in a Blanket because I still have 4 60ilvl items (rest DL and +1 lance). My accuracy was in 440-450s I think, not sure.

@Pompey_dan - You have to setup a custom event. I use a macro to tell logrep when to start and stop. Something like this - /echo Parse[START] and /echo Parse[END] . "Parse" is what logrep will call the event.

I was using a static rotation I made up before I read this guide it was HT(Sweep) > ID(BfB) > Dis(PS) > CT(Jump) > Frac(Internal Release) > Phleb > TT > VP(LS) > FT(DD) and repeat, skipping CT because of BfB dropping off long before that. Obviously it was inferior to this and I've already got some DPS improvements from 230-240 to 260-270 on a Training Dummy.
Unfortunately I'm thinking I should be doing 300+ with Relic+1 and full DL gear but I haven't got a clue what would be considered bad, average or good DPS on a Dummy. I find it hard to get out of habits so I've been practising this guide for a while to get used to it.

Can anyone give me some information on how much DPS I should being on average on a dummy with this equipment?

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Originally Posted by Krisom

I was using a static rotation I made up before I read this guide it was HT(Sweep) > ID(BfB) > Dis(PS) > CT(Jump) > Frac(Internal Release) > Phleb > TT > VP(LS) > FT(DD) and repeat, skipping CT because of BfB dropping off long before that. Obviously it was inferior to this and I've already got some DPS improvements from 230-240 to 260-270 on a Training Dummy.
Unfortunately I'm thinking I should be doing 300+ with Relic+1 and full DL gear but I haven't got a clue what would be considered bad, average or good DPS on a Dummy. I find it hard to get out of habits so I've been practising this guide for a while to get used to it.

Can anyone give me some information on how much DPS I should being on average on a dummy with this equipment?

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It depends on what abilities you're using and how long you parse. I would recommend not using Spineshatter or DFD as it is unlikely you would use either in a dps rotation since they are better saved for positioning. I'd also stick to using a single Mercy Stroke since more than one is unrealistic, and parse until you run out of TP (after using Invigorate). With Relic+1 and full DL gear this should produce from 260-280 dps. I've had different reports from FFXIVApp and LogRep2, with the former usually parsing lower and the latter higher on dummies. If you use FFXIVApp you should be around 260, and LogRep2 around 280, or at least these are the numbers I have generally received from both programs (give or take 5-10 dps).

Even parsing on dummies is pretty variable though, so I wouldn't put 100% stock in your numbers, but they're good for a general ballpark.

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HT(Sweep) > ID(BfB) > Dis(PS) > CT(Jump) > Frac(Internal Release) > Phleb > TT > VP(LS) > FT(DD)

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My immediate comment is that you want to stack IR and BFB. Use both BFB and IR at the beginning of the rotation. PS/Jump can wait 2.5 seconds.


Other than that, the rotation in and of itself is average. The alternative rotations are similar but more effective.

Your rotation reads as follows:

H IDC FP TTT
H ID FP TTT

The only/main problem is you are:

(1) Using Fracture as an additional filler instead of TTT in general.
(2) Using ID + DE as a filler without CT / in place of TTT.

Generally I'd advise immediately removing the Fractures since they needlessly space out the rest of your rotation:

H IDC P TTT
H ID P TTT

This is actually a pretty decent rotation overall, although there is some chance of an invalid clip on the second PH. To solve that, ensure you spam jumps or add a Fracture if the first PH is buffed. E.g.:

H IDC P TTT
H IDF P TTT

In theory you can replace the second "ID" with TTTs and alter the rotation and timing. However, to keep it similar to what you are currently doing, I recommend just removing Fracture from your normal rotation (just use it once after you hit BFB/IR to space out the PH).

I finally got some Turn 5 time last week and I have not been noticing any misses at 473 accuracy. This is odd since I've seen the 483 number (or whatever it was) everywhere and was assuming I'd be needing food to make it through.

It's possible this was just RNG so I'll actually run some parses and pay close attention this week to get a better idea (since even with 473 I probably have around a 99% chance to hit). On the flipside, I spent 3 hours in there and used a lot more than 100 abilities so I should have caught that 1% chance. I also doubt it was lack of attention either since misses are extremely obvious as a Dragoon and I was being more vigilant than usual on my rotation.

Has anyone else noticed this?

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

snip, accuracy

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I've been into Turn 5 with 481 accuracy and haven't noticed any misses, so either it's just the same RNG luck as you or the cap is indeed lower than 483.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

My immediate comment is that you want to stack IR and BFB.

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Is it worth waiting the 20 or so seconds for B4B to come back up after IR to always pop them at the same time? I'm just wondering if there's enough multiplication between the two of them to make up for not just popping them as soon as they are available after the first usage. I would test this myself with parsing but I'm a console plebeian. :c

No there's not enough geometric scaling to justify holding a cooldown -- only to ensure they're sync'd when you can do it easily (like at the start of the fight or after a fight reset / disengage like Titan jumps).

Edit: BFB is up for 20 / 80. Delaying it by 20s changes that "20/80 * 30%" = 7.5% damage buff into a "20/100 * 30%" = 6% damage buff.

IR gives a 7.5% increase in total damage -- minus baseline crit, which I'm ignoring for now. A 7.5% increase to BFB's 6% increase scenario is 6.45%. 7.5% > 6.45%, so maintaining BFB's original "20/80" scenario is better, and that's not counting the baseline crit which slightly devalues the crit% increase in this assessment.

Probably mentioned already somewhere but what should I be looking at regarding accuracy when starting on Turn 1? First post mentions keeping it around 470 but I've heard it varies from turn to turn?

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Originally Posted by Ash_Smokespear

Probably mentioned already somewhere but what should I be looking at regarding accuracy when starting on Turn 1? First post mentions keeping it around 470 but I've heard it varies from turn to turn?

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I'm sure Turn 1 - 4 is somewhere around the 470 mark and T5 is 480ish.

100% accuracy on turn 5 as a dragoon after clearing it with 479 accuracy. This includes all the hours of wipes beforehand :p

Maybe 470 is just slightly below 100% and the sweet spot is more around 475~

I have made a solver that finds the optimal gear set for dragoons given certain conditions. you can find the thread here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...97#post1544697

My solver has confirmed the BiS given in the OP's post.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

snip stack b4b with IR

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I see you're saying stack B4B with IR, I'm guessing this is better than doing TT > B4B > VT > LS > FT?

Umm you should always use LS on FT.

For the rest, just spam BFB and IR as soon as possible. If, for some strange reason, you end up with BFB, IR, and LS off cooldown right as you're hitting your True Thrust, which is a very strange scenario in the first place, then you should BFB before the VT then LS before the FT then IR before whatever you do next.

Hi guys.

Just wanted to drop a quick question before I pack up to leave work. Since I was figuring out the DRG class I was using this rotation up until now:

HT FP IDC(+jump) TTVTFT(+jump)
HT FP TTVTFT(+jump) IDC(+jump)
HT FP TTVTFT(+jump) TTVTFT(+jump)

That's the basic reliable Dragoon rotation. I do spam IR/BFB/LS whenever they are off cooldown and do jumps/dives after CT and FT. I got really comfortable with this rotation and I'm looking for adjustments to do more dps now. I've found this roation EasymodeX posted in another thread:

HT IDC P TTT H TTT
P IDC HT TTT P TTT

I believe I can do jumps after the same skills (CT and FT) and spam BFB/IR/LS whenever available too, right? It just takes some time for me to learn a new rotation (muscle memory) and I don't want to invest weeks into what I will change again later. Without nitpicking it too much, this should be the most versatile and damaging rotation to date then?

P.S. the only annoying thing is doing Impulse Drive early on trash mobs in a dungeon since they like to rotate a lot if the tank is a little slow and takes me 2-4 Drives to start the damn IDC combo lmao. That's why I like to start with HT FP.

P.S. thanks for all the help and number crunching to Ayvar and Easymode since the start of this thread, I'm too damn lazy to do such things and just go with whatever feels better when I create my rotations.

Tagged
/10char

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Originally Posted by Ozpa

I believe I can do jumps after the same skills (CT and FT) and spam BFB/IR/LS whenever available too, right? It just takes some time for me to learn a new rotation (muscle memory) and I don't want to invest weeks into what I will change again later. Without nitpicking it too much, this should be the most versatile and damaging rotation to date then?

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Hummm, versatile? Don't know if I'd call any DRG rotation "versatile" DX.

In terms of damage, no one has done any form of super reliable in-game parsing to identify what is necessarily "actually" the best. I have a spreadsheet model where you can plug in any rotation and it will give a PPS estimate, though, and the rotation I posted is the highest.

The second highest is actually based on the sequence posted by the troll otherwise known as Longnu, but after I made 2 corrections/revisions to what he posted. There's also a part where the PH clips that needs review, but that's not a hard fix for when you use BFB.

The third is sort of a tie between a somewhat simple rotation: HP IDC TTT // HP TTT TTT and the original one Ayvar posted.

As a general note, all these rotations are pretty damn close. The actual in-game DPS should be within 3% in all cases if the player is playing optimally. That is why I advocate the simple one above for most players unless they're really obsessive with optimizing 100%.


In terms of using oGCDs in the opening of the fight, my general pattern is:

HT [BFB] ID [IR] DE [Leg Sweep] CT [Power Surge]
PH [Jump] TT [SSD] VT [LS] FT [DFD]

Proper execution of this sequence with any decent crits will have a good chance of pulling threat off a tank.

The timing for all of the above is intentional:

1. BFB and IR up ASAP so all your oGCDs (aka bonus damage) are buffed (buffed bonus damage > unbuffed bonus damage).
2. No damage oGCDs used until after DE. Again, buffed bonus damage > unbuffed.
3. Leg Sweep used as soon as possible to get it off cooldown faster. This may be counter-intuitive if you are focused on JUMPJUMPJUMP. The concept is that Jumps require some care, so it's extremely likely you will not use Jump exactly when it's off cooldown anyways. Leg Sweep, on the other hand, can almost always be used immediately off cooldown. So get it off cooldown sooner.
4. Life Surge before FT.
5. Jump spam in general to space out the rotation so you don't need to add Fracture to avoid a CT clip the next cycle. Note: this means never jump before DE or before CT. Always jump after CT where possible.
6. The DFD will launch with the last 0.5-1.0 seconds of the HT buff. If you use all 3 jumps prior to FT, then FT will miss the HT buff.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

In terms of damage, no one has done any form of super reliable in-game parsing to identify what is necessarily "actually" the best. I have a spreadsheet model where you can plug in any rotation and it will give a PPS estimate, though, and the rotation I posted is the highest.

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Just to be clear, is this the one you're talking about?

HT IDC P TTT H TTT
P IDC HT TTT P TTT

I'll just start practicing that then to get it down, will eventually do it flawlessly.

Should I go for +1 1st or myth armors? :P

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Umm you should always use LS on FT.

For the rest, just spam BFB and IR as soon as possible. If, for some strange reason, you end up with BFB, IR, and LS off cooldown right as you're hitting your True Thrust, which is a very strange scenario in the first place, then you should BFB before the VT then LS before the FT then IR before whatever you do next.

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That's what I was wondering, why would you want to have IR on at the same time as LS for your FT... seems like a waste

Yes, H IDC P TTT H TTT // P IDC H TTT P TTT is what I was referring to.

+1 first.

It's a very very minor waste.

Okay, sounds good. Thanks for clearing that up

Hey guys! Dunno how legit this is (never heard of ACT or have used it in other games), but people on reddit raving how accurate and best that parser was.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._ffxiv_plugin/

Was just posted yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Ozpa

Hey guys! Dunno how legit this is (never heard of ACT or have used it in other games), but people on reddit raving how accurate and best that parser was.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen..._ffxiv_plugin/

Was just posted yesterday.

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ACT was used in: EQ, EQ2, rift, aion, age of conan, secret world, SWTOR and probably more. its been around for a while and is a very solid parser that can be adapted to work with different MMOs. Im shocked it took this long for it to come to FFXIV. so far its my favorite and ive only used it for a day :P mmmm overlay..

ACT's the "best MMORPG parser ever made".

It's taken awhile for it to get a FFXIV plug-in. Note: it's impossible to be significantly more accurate than logrep or ffxivapp. However, ACT has an incredible toolset for analysis.